OT - Tigers deal Maybin to Angels for a prospect
http://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/17965836/detroit-tigers-trade-camero…
knocks $9M off the payroll - perhaps Collins, Jones or some other kid is able to take over
also picked up K-Rod's option
November 3rd, 2016 at 9:26 PM ^
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November 4th, 2016 at 6:32 AM ^
November 4th, 2016 at 8:20 AM ^
The Cubs have been trash for roughly 100 of the years since they last won the world series. Many of those years they didn't even try to field a competitive team.
November 3rd, 2016 at 9:29 PM ^
"Prospect" is putting it nicely. This dude Alcantara has pitched well at basically no level in the minors. Even as a pure salary dump, trading your starting centerfielder for farm system filler that has at best an outside shot to get called up for a mid-August shellacking is a ridiculous trade. Oh, and now our options in center field include 1) a guy who flicked off the fans for booing his skillet mitt and 2) a guy who started the season in the bigs and ended it in AA after throwing a hissy fit in a minor league dugout while hitting so well two levels down that the only thing preventing him from lopping another A off his level was the merciful end of his godawful season.
Great move, Al. For your next trick, why don't you trade Verlander for a 25-year-old former 21st-round pick chunking softballs to middle A-ball hitters?
November 4th, 2016 at 12:00 AM ^
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November 4th, 2016 at 5:43 AM ^
At least sign Maybin for one more year at $9M. That would allow Jones to begin the season in CF at Toledo. If he's succeeding and you get a good offer for Maybin, you trade him before the deadline and bring Jones up.
That would have been reasonable. This feels like the beginning of a fire sale.
November 4th, 2016 at 9:06 AM ^
November 3rd, 2016 at 9:33 PM ^
Chris Illitch is William Clay Ford incompetent. The Tigers and Wings are not winning anything until the Illitchs sell.
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November 3rd, 2016 at 9:34 PM ^
Don't like the move but its not a huge blow. I think you figure
1) Maybin wasn't going to repeat his career year
2) Injuries were not flukey
3) Tigers were too right heavy
4) Tigers have been pretty heavy salary wise for a decade. If owners want to shed a little I can't whine too much. I was pissed most of the Dumars era because he built a beautiful basketball team then turned into a bean counter. Tigers get a pass in m book.
I do hope this is us positioning the tigers to have some flexibility to add salary but I sort of doubt it.
Verlander is back. JZ might have the year he should have had last year. Then Norris and Fulmer variously looked like soon to be premier pitchers from time to time. The third guy looked pretty serviceable too.
November 4th, 2016 at 7:28 AM ^
I'd also add that you can't judge the move in isolation, It's a part of an entire off-season plan that has only just begun.
What if that $9M allows you to go get an elite bullpen guy? Maybe you had $5M budgeted for a bullpen guy and now suddenly you have $14M?
Maybin was fun and having a career year, when he was healthy. But he wasn't always healthy and it is highly unlikely he replicates those numbers ever again. He's not a terrible candidate for a salary dump. Other teams aren't going to take Upton or Martinez's salary, but as we see, a $9M salary is movable.
November 3rd, 2016 at 10:01 PM ^
November 3rd, 2016 at 10:03 PM ^
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November 3rd, 2016 at 10:20 PM ^
I dunno guys, is that "insufferable"? I have literally no practice at this -- again, Cubs fan here.
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November 3rd, 2016 at 10:25 PM ^
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November 3rd, 2016 at 11:34 PM ^
November 4th, 2016 at 6:55 AM ^
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November 4th, 2016 at 8:53 AM ^
No, you're wrong. I grew up in the same home town as Bill Murray -- exactly two blocks from his house, actually -- the suburb just north of Evanston on the lake. A lifelong Cubs fan for 50 years. First was indoctrinated when I was very young and used to watch games with my grandfather on summer afternoons, he'd sit there in the same chair day after day, year after year, complaining about the bums but always watching. It's utterly fascinating that so many Cubs fans have the same attachments to the team -- it's about generational connections, loved ones who rooted for them, the connection to roots as much as to the team itself.
I always used to quip, "I never grew up rooting for any professional baseball teams, I'm a Cubs fan." I guess I have to put that to rest now too.
November 3rd, 2016 at 10:38 PM ^
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November 4th, 2016 at 10:07 AM ^
Next time that people copmplain about how the Tigers need to shed payroll via getting rid of overpaid players, remind them of the crappy return they had to accept to get someone to take their bad contracts off their books.
November 3rd, 2016 at 10:56 PM ^
The team is going to shed payroll. They said so explicitly and picking up a $9mil option on a decent CFer with a history of injuries is, on the surface, a no brainer. I do think he was a spark when he was out there but not sure if I'd bank on him being available for a majority of a season. They'll look to find someone via trade, if possible, or on the cheap in FA.
With the insane contracts we have, I assume the front office would look to make almost any deal they could to dump that money. Somebody could bite on Upton, V-Mart, Pelfrey (for like nothing), and Kinsler if we're willing to part with him. If they are willing to trade JD, he could also bring a good return.
I don't think the Tigers are willing to deal Miggy or Verlander since they're still good and are huge fan favorites. I also don't think anyone will TOUCH Zimmerman or Sanchez until they show they'll perform again given the money involved and injury scares.
Simple fact is unless Norris and Fulmer just erupt next year into legitimate studs, we're looking at another season much like this one. Even if they do I'm not sure we have enough. Realistically does anyone look at this team and see a contender? We also can't really make many moves to get there. We have very little flexibility without somehow dumping some of these guys which would yield prospects and shuts the window anyways.
Best thing in my view is rather than draw this whole thing out, dump everyone with big money they can for the best package possible and rebuild around Fulmer and whoever is left that we don't move (Miggy/Verlander/JD?)
November 4th, 2016 at 9:33 AM ^
Let's keep in mind: The full lineup for this team played something like 12 times. That's how many injuries there were all year, not even counting the pitchers. This team made it within a hair of the postseason despite losing its 3B, SS, DH, RF, and CF for large chunks of the year, plus multiple starting pitchers.
So yes, realistically, I see a contender. If this team had been reasonably healthy all year, it's easily in the playoffs. This team is like when the Wings still had Chelios and Yzerman and everyone was like, oh, they're old and slow, forgetting that it actually had a bunch of up-and-comers and wasn't any older on average than the rest of the league.
"Dump everyone with big money for the best package possible" is a ridiculous strategy. Think about this logically. If these players won't help us contend and they're hugely expensive, who's going to want them? Logically, either they're still good players and we can contend, or they're not and we'll get nothing for them. We got a bum with less than zero command of any of his pitches for a reasonably priced quality starting outfield, what are we going to get for a 38-year-old guy who can only play in one league? Tanking just doesn't work, the Astros tried it and they're going nowhere.
After 2018, a LOT of money comes off the books. About $44 million worth in Sanchez, V-Mart, and Kinsler. Sanchez can be bought out after 2017, too. Flexibility is on the way. If we're going to salary-dump, doing it now probably isn't smart. This team can contend, but if it doesn't, teams are always willing to pay more at the trade deadline than the offseason. As evidenced by the shit return on Maybin.
November 4th, 2016 at 3:08 PM ^
The Astros have some of the best, most envied young talent in the league. I'd be fine with where the Astros are at right now.
If your argument is that most of that money comes off the books anyways after 2018 (which is TWO YEARS AWAY) then why not shed the salary they have now, hopefully for something decent in return, and start the process two years early rather than slowly slipping into baseball purgatory where we have too much money committed to guys who can't carry the team anymore and the farm system looks like the elephant graveyard. They won't even sniff the ALCS next year and probably won't make the playoffs either.
I'm also not suggesting we "tank" in the sense that we sell off everybody of any kind of value. What I'm saying is we realize that we are not winning the WS with this roster and adding more and more expensive FAs is not the way to go, therefore, you get what you can to shed some of that salary. If the counter is that we would never get anything worth trading back for those guys, then maybe we still eat some of their money to get the prospects we want? There's a decent young core on the team that we can rebuild quickly around.
Also, let's step back for a second. A rebuild is coming. Pretending anything otherwise is crazy. The fall is coming, we can either be proactive about it or let ourselves slowly tip over the edge.
November 4th, 2016 at 4:34 PM ^
Let's face it: We would have to eat some of their money - a lot of their money - even if we got a bucket of tobacco juice in return. 100% of GMs are gonna say, hey, I didn't negotiate that contract, and I sure as hell wouldn't now.
This is a roster that can get to the playoffs. No doubt about that in my mind, considering how close they came even with huge chunks of it missing. You get to the playoffs, you have as good a shot at the WS as anyone else who's there. I suppose the difference of opinion here is that you think they can't, but again, if this roster can't, then nobody's going to give us anything worth anything for the most expensive pieces of it.
The other point is that you're going to get squat in a postseason fire sale. Diddly. Junk. Nothing. Again, look what we got for our starting center fielder: the worst farm system not just in baseball, but in the history of comprehensively evaluating farm systems, wouldn't even give us their top prospect.
I see no reason why they can't make the playoffs in 2017. I certainly see no reason to not even try. If July rolls around and the team looks like a seller, then sell. At least then you can sell a lot higher than in the offseason. Let's face it, if you're going to sell off some players of value, why would you not sell them all? You're either trying to make the playoffs or you're not. Nobody's saying, you know, I think we should shoot for 81-81. I also see no reason why we have to go through a rebuilding suck period in order to be good again.
November 3rd, 2016 at 11:14 PM ^
November 3rd, 2016 at 11:35 PM ^
they have nobody to replace him. He had a good season. I think this means they are in the beginning of rebuild mode.
November 4th, 2016 at 1:13 AM ^
I think this is a bad move. Maybin was pretty darn good when healthy.
November 4th, 2016 at 4:47 AM ^
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November 4th, 2016 at 6:50 AM ^
Fulmer, Norris and Boyd. Iggy is young, JD and Castelanos are young. I think they can put a competitive team together fairly easily.
They traded him so they didn't have to pay the 1million buyout they would have owed him. Good move if you weren't going to keep him and pay him the 8m.
November 4th, 2016 at 8:11 AM ^
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November 4th, 2016 at 8:42 AM ^
November 4th, 2016 at 9:55 AM ^
Also, if they would have declined his option, they still would've owed him $4mil. So this is still a savings. Honestly, their in-house options scare me. When they say Rondon or Greene, that's depressing.
If this is a salary dump, they better get someone's top prospect plus a couple more guys for JV. His numbers last year compared favorably to his 2011-12 seasons where he won the Cy Young/MVP one year and finished second in the Cy Young the next.
Damn, him and Fulmer would make a good 1-2 punch. Throw in Norris and Boyd and that's a rotation that could compete with Cleveland.
November 4th, 2016 at 10:25 AM ^
infectious personality, two things sorely lacking in that clubhouse.
Yeah, no. This is about the worst argument in this thread for keeping Maybin.
November 4th, 2016 at 12:11 PM ^
November 4th, 2016 at 1:20 PM ^