Perspective, anyone?
When it comes to sports in general, admittedly, I have tunnel vision. I love my wolverines, a few professional teams, and that's about it. For the sake of perspective, with the exception of outright scandals, is there a similar implosion that comes to mind? I have seen teams slowly erode into mediocrity (which we have already done); but, this team, THIS STAFF, seems to have spiraled into complete chaos in very short order.
Maybe I'm looking for an inspirational story...
September 28th, 2014 at 1:06 AM ^
Didn't they beat Oregon last year?
September 28th, 2014 at 6:12 AM ^
September 28th, 2014 at 9:14 AM ^
Let us know when he's consistently beating those teams and competing for Pac 12 titles
September 29th, 2014 at 8:10 AM ^
I mean, I know he wears a wizard hat, but he's not really a magician, you do realize that right? This is Arizona we're talking about here. If he gets them to the point where he is consistently beating those teams and winning the Pac 12 I would say that makes him....let's see...the best college coach of all time.
If he can manage to beat any of those teams each year he's there while staying in the 8-9 win territory that would be considered a huge success in Arizona. If he gets the program to a better place than that he should be annually winning coach of the year.
Look, I know lots of the people on here hated RR, but if any of you are honestly still claiming BH is a better coach than RR you are either lying to yourself or lying to everyone else. It's as plain as the nose on Hoke's face, RR is the better coach and it isn't even close. Imagine how Arizona would be doing right now if the hired BH?
September 28th, 2014 at 10:58 AM ^
I meant this year...this is college and teams tend to change significantly year to year. Call me when they beat all those teams THIS year.
It's like saying you beat Florida State last year versus Florida State this year. Last year they were an elite team. This year they are good to great but not elite yet you know the second someone beats them (and they will) they are going to treat it as the biggest thing in the world.
September 28th, 2014 at 2:19 PM ^
Way to move the goalposts on your argument
September 28th, 2014 at 1:12 AM ^
1) Arizona hasn't been that impressive this year, but they are 4-0. You'd be hard-pressed to convince me Minnesota is better than Cal, and whether Arizona's hail mary was complete or not, at least Arizona was competitive in that game. We were not, at all, against Minnesota.
2) More importantly, Arizona beat Utah last year and thumped a top 5 Oregon team last year, 42-16. We literally haven't had a victory over a team that highly ranked late in the year in over a decade.
September 28th, 2014 at 1:38 AM ^
So in other words, Arizona is also pretty bad, just not as bad as us. Well that settles it. Rich Rod was the man for the job.
September 28th, 2014 at 2:51 AM ^
No, Arizona is not that good. But the team scored 4 touchdowns in the 4th quarter in that game. They didn't give up. That's the big difference.
September 28th, 2014 at 9:15 AM ^
What I'd give to score 4 TDs in a game....or two games....
September 28th, 2014 at 2:36 PM ^
According to Massey the Washington St. game this year is their best win since 2010. Washington State's ranked #56.
September 28th, 2014 at 5:02 AM ^
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September 28th, 2014 at 12:52 AM ^
September 28th, 2014 at 1:39 AM ^
September 28th, 2014 at 12:53 AM ^
the end of the Ray Goff era was pretty meh, but hardly the dumpster fire of Michigan right now
Goff's 4th team went 10-2 in 1992 his next 3 teams went 5-6, 6-4-1, 6-6 which included going 0-6 against Florida and Tennessee (a no, no down there). He did rake Georgia Tech over the coals though.
September 28th, 2014 at 9:10 AM ^
Thanks for reminding me that after Stallings at Alabama, there was Mike DuBose (.500), Dennis Franchione (.625) , Mike Price (*), Mike Shula (.303), Joe Kines (interim) and then finally Nick Saban. (=conference win percentage) ... so two coaches isn't really that far down the path to a winning team ...
September 28th, 2014 at 12:56 AM ^
Hoke should be fired tomorrow. End of story.
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September 28th, 2014 at 1:03 AM ^
If you're looking for blue blood perspectives, Texas/Oklahoma/USC in the 90s, Alabama/Nebraska in the early 2000s, Notre Dame 1995-present. Basically we just have to fire everyone in the program including the AD and the head coach. Bring in the biggest name possible by offering the largest salary in CFB if need be. It all starts with getting a brilliant AD who can recruit head coaches well. We are loaded in money in both the athletic department and the overall university as a whole. It's time we start using it to bring back Michigan. Go to Ross, Wilpon, Glick etc. if you have to in order to pay Harbaugh more than he makes at SF.
September 28th, 2014 at 1:08 AM ^
Why the hell do people bring up Notre Dame still? Since they hired Brian Kelly they've only been successful with a few exceptions... Not to mention they play a way harder schedule than us even if we happened to have had lucky games against them with RR and Hoke until this year.
September 28th, 2014 at 1:14 AM ^
because they went 8-5 and 9-4 and the 2012 season for them was a massive fluke as the Alabama game showed us. Their season consisted of teams shooting themselves in the foot when they played them.
September 28th, 2014 at 2:25 AM ^
If we played their schedule, we would go 6-6 and 5-7 under Hoke. I guarentee most of us would swap places with ND and glady get thumped in the National Title game if it meant our program would bounce back 2 years later and be back in the hunt in the top 10 compared to this tire fire.
September 28th, 2014 at 1:58 PM ^
I would rather be thumped 42-14 in the National Title game than 41-14 in the first game of the year.
September 28th, 2014 at 4:30 AM ^
Brian Kelly followed Charlie Weis. There has never, nor god willing will there ever, be anyone as completely incompetent as Weis ever coaching Michigan. Charlie Weis is dismissive of the health of his players, unable to convey even a fraction of the concepts he wants to coach to them, arrogant to the press, a bully to his student body and his track record in college is literally one unending string of failure.
And Brian Kelly had to build something after that guy. There are bad coaches, there are imbeciles, and then there's Charlie Weis. They're lucky in Notre Dame that he didn't set the school on fire.
September 28th, 2014 at 9:18 AM ^
He's recruited quite a few good head coaches here but hiring Brady Hoke was a huge mistake which will likely cost him his job.
September 28th, 2014 at 1:00 AM ^
Is Pre-Saban Post-Bear Alabama. Right down to Gene Stallings/Lloyd Carr having a 90's national title and then being forced into retirement due to apparent program malaise. Bama people jumped on Gene much faster though. USC has fallen into this trap a couple of times too where every coach had to have worked for McKay or Robinson or else he wasn't an option until they were shit for so long that they took a chance on an outsider named Pete Carroll.
You just can't limit yourselves to coaches who have a tie to the Great Man, or The Program's past. You might have a Harbaugh or Miles, but you'll mostly have a ton of Ron Englishes and Brady Hokes, especially when you have a coach like Lloyd who put more stock in assistant loyalty than he did coaching ability.
September 28th, 2014 at 1:03 AM ^
Bama hired Mike Price for about 2 weeks or something like that.
September 28th, 2014 at 1:49 AM ^
Him and Franchione were used as proof that outsiders ain't right for Bama PAWWWWWWWL.
At least Michigan hasn't had the two week coach who gets fired from something sordid yet.
September 28th, 2014 at 1:00 AM ^
I know its no comfort and probably influenced by some kind of sanctions but Alabama has had a 10 win season follwed by a losing season 3 times in the last 15 years.
99-00
02-03
05-06
September 28th, 2014 at 1:03 AM ^
The two teams Michigan has beaten are a combined 1-8 with zero wins over an FBS team.
September 28th, 2014 at 1:03 AM ^
gruesome huh
September 28th, 2014 at 1:19 AM ^
2-10 is not impossible. It's stunning to say that with the talent on this team, but we just got blown out at home by Minnesota. Who, exactly, are we going to beat?
September 28th, 2014 at 1:36 AM ^
would have been a more sensible investment than student tickets for 2014?
Vindication!
September 28th, 2014 at 1:46 AM ^
Michigan 29, @Minnesota 6
September 28th, 2014 at 11:54 AM ^
Epic Nick Sheridan!
September 28th, 2014 at 8:12 AM ^
At this rate, no one. The offense gives away as many points as it scores. Unless the defense gets 2 pick sixes a game, Michigan won't win again.
People say defense wins championships, but at the same time, your offense needs to score at least once.
September 28th, 2014 at 9:19 AM ^
but we'll probably still manage 1-3 random wins here and there to finish 4-8/5-7
September 28th, 2014 at 12:56 PM ^
at this point.
I was planning on going to the Northwestern game, but have reconsidered. Glad I didn't buy the tickets.
September 28th, 2014 at 1:11 AM ^
Having watched Arizona games, they are not good or at least will never become an elite team. They may having a winning record and be 8-4 or something but they're never becoming Oregon or anything. They have some big problems on D.
September 28th, 2014 at 1:23 AM ^
That program has basically never had real success. They are the only original Pac-10 team to never be to a Rose Bowl. Ever. To build an "Oregon" out there (which was helped, in no small part, but Nike money) would be one of the greatest feats of all-time.
And this year they are starting a RS Fr QB, i.e., someone just as experienced as Shane Morris. Their guy has thrown for 1450 yards in 4 games. It seems like it would take Shane 14 games to reach that.
So maybe they'll never become elite, but (unbelievably to me) you can say the same about Michigan right now. Arizona's program is easily in better shape than ours. That's unbelievable with our resources, but true. I mean -- who had a better record last year? Who will this year? Who would you bet would next year?
It's not pretty.
September 28th, 2014 at 1:34 AM ^
They're better historically than Indiana. The "Desert Swarm" teams of the '90s were very good defensively. One year they destroyed Miami in one of the BCS bowls, back when Miami was a dynasty. That they've never played in the Rose Bowl is more a weird factoid than a true sign of crappiness. They've been up and down though, with a lot of bad seasons as well.
September 28th, 2014 at 2:27 AM ^
There is no perfect analog in the B1G -- perhaps Purdue is a better one. But of the Pac-12 programs, historically USC, UCLA, Washington, Oregon, Stanford, Arizona State and Colorado have all been easily better (e.g., multiple conference championships, plus multiple big bowl wins, a few have national titles).
Point is, to get that program to "elite" (which, in my mind, is having high-level success with some consistency--i.e., our Sugar Bowl win in 2011 didn't get us back to "elite" b/c it was just one year) is something that has not been done before. If RR (or anyone else) does that at Arizona, it will be something quite new.
September 28th, 2014 at 1:39 AM ^
In 2008 and 2009 Arizona was 8-5. In 2009 they were 7-6. If they were 2-10 every year before RR I'd agree with you but they have held their own.
September 28th, 2014 at 2:48 PM ^
They're right where they've been for the last 25 years, if you leave out the Mackovic era.
End of season power ranking at Massey:
- 1990: 42
- 1991: 46
- 1992: 14
- 1993: 7
- 1994: 25
- 1995: 47
- 1996: 35
- 1997: 21
- 1998: 20
- 1999: 54
- 2000: 22
- 2001: 55 <- Mackovic replaces Tomey
- 2002: 71
- 2003: 90
- 2004: 63 <- Stoops replaces Mackovic
- 2005: 57
- 2006: 36
- 2007: 30
- 2008: 22
- 2009: 39
- 2010: 26
- 2011: 68
- 2012: 38 <- Rodriguez replaces Stoops
- 2013: 23
- 2014 (so far): 35
There's no comparable team in the B1G. For average performance this is probably Iowa, but Iowa's peaks and valleys are much bigger. No school in this conference is so consistently second-20,
September 28th, 2014 at 1:17 AM ^
Before we throw all the bums out, I'd like to just say I don't think the entire staff is imploding at all. Greg Mattison, in my opinion, has continued to do an admirable job. Our defense is actually playing quite respectable football, despite being repeatedly screwed by our pathetic offense.
The only guy on this staff that actually looks "imploding" to me is Hoke. Let's just put it on him. I'm trying to imagine a scenario in which we end up keeping Mattison. I don't think it can happen, which is too bad.
September 28th, 2014 at 1:28 AM ^
Hire the right guy and let him build the staff he wants to build
September 28th, 2014 at 1:17 AM ^
Arizona went 8-5 in 2012 and 8-5 in 2013. This year, they have a 7 point win over Nevada, a 3 point win over UTSA, and a hail mary win over Cal. How is that impressive?
September 28th, 2014 at 2:07 PM ^
It's impressive in comparison to Hoke's tenure at Michigan. Over those three years, that's a 20-10 record, in a much tougher conference, compared to 17-14 in the LOL.
September 28th, 2014 at 1:18 AM ^
and this is probably the best example, Tyrone Willingham years. Inherited a Washington program coming off the Nieuheisel/Gilbertson debacle.
2005 went 2-9
2006 5-7 after they started drinking chocolate mile
2007 4-9 fans and alums started wondering if Willingham was the right guy for the job
2008 0-12 full implosion
If you believe Hoke got a little lucky in year one at Michigan, then this looks all to similar. Willingham's 2008 team was offensively inept.
Truthfully Washington has never recovered from the sanctions imposed by the Pac10 under Don James in the mid 90's which opened the door for Oregon, the Ducks have never looked back and have been the dominant program in the pacific northwest since.
September 28th, 2014 at 1:19 AM ^
That starts with an AD who gives the new coach full control of the team. From a philosophical perspective it seems like Hoke/Brandon just wanted to recreate what Bo had. Their obsession with the history of the program is an example of that view. Do strategies that try to recreate the past ever really work? Is a vision of "let's do what that last guy did" effective leadership?
Look we have a great past and we should appreciate it. At the same time trying to recreate the past is not an effective strategy to succeed in the future.
I don't know who the next coach will be but he damn well better have a vision and a plan for how to make the program successful. It needs to be his vision (not Bo's, not Dave Brandon's). Let's find I guy who has been successful and has a plan and then let him get to work on it. Looking at Alabama as an example I don't think he was plagued with people telling him he had to coach like Bear Bryant.
September 28th, 2014 at 1:21 AM ^
Yeah. I like Mattison but I said whole staff because I figured he would have to go if we got a new HC. You never know though. Also, he might just retire. When he first signed up to be our DC, didn't he say he wanted to go for about 5 years? It's been 4.