Sparty Spring Game on BTN.
michiganman14 and ThadMattasGoblin are probably the two worst "Mart variety" fans on here.
April 27th, 2014 at 12:01 PM ^
Half of our fanbase couldn't get into Michigan..... or State for that matter.
Pot, meet kettle.
Why does anyone care? Congrats; we got to see a team do a couple of things 4 months before they'll play a game.
I know only a small portion of the people on this blog are obsessed about UM's rivals, but man do they show up in droves to troll away.
look how far its come..... from the initial error..... When carr began to CONSISTENTLY lose to OSU, just like Bump losing to Woody, for it was time to replace carr with the guy who could beat OSU...taking from their rib again...in Dantonio their DC when they won the national championship....he was waiting at Cinci for the call to come... according to Bacon, he was considered. Instead it was decided to retain Carr on another few years where he proceeded to stop recruiting...and he then supposedly sandbagged RR....note that Bo said that Bump couldve done the same but didnt.
Brandon and Hoke have a monumental task here to now catch msu and osu. I was afraid of that mcDowell fiasco drawing too much attention to the dangerous ground the program now finds itself in, because if msu gets the upper hand on instate recruiting then were in real trouble.
April 26th, 2014 at 10:32 PM ^
While it's annoying to have lost McDowell (even more so that we also lost Hand) and now is equally frustrating that Cornell likes MSU, this battle is far from over. And, to be honest I'd rather get Lucier-South although they are very different players. But, lets be clear... MSU is not out recruiting UM. It's not even close. How many guys on the UM roster did MSU recruit? Hoke and the UM staff are killing Dantonio and the MSU staff on the recruiting trail. Since '12 MSU offered RJS, Kalis, Pipkins, Wormley, Funchess, Ross, Wilson, Ojemudia, Braden, Lewis, Dawson, D. Thomas, Kugler, Morris, Bosch, Gedeon, Harris, Marshall, Ferns, JBB, Furbush, Winovich, and Wangler and I got sick of looking.
Now, I'll give you OSU. UM and OSU have been very close in recruiting for as long as I can remember going back to the 90s and during all that time OSU has had the edge in recruiting most years. I guess you have to chalk that up to the fact that they have a more fertile state for talent and are equally if not better at recruiting nationally. But, MSU...c'mon. It's the youth & depth that's hurting UM against MSU. I'd even give you player development. But, it's not recruiting.
April 26th, 2014 at 10:38 PM ^
April 26th, 2014 at 10:51 PM ^
Just anecdotally off the top of my head, I'd guess they had the upper hand, at least in the Midwest region, during RR's tenure and Hoke had no trouble getting it back in year one. I think it would take a much longer run of success for MSU and a much bigger gap between the two teams on-field performance that what we've seen the past 3 years (or than any 1-year recruiting battles) before MSU could get to a point to where they have the upper hand. I have a hard time seeing that happen. That doesn't mean they won't steal a few guys here and there, especially on defense, but I don't see them taking over.
April 26th, 2014 at 11:06 PM ^
April 27th, 2014 at 12:56 AM ^
Upper hand on the field is what matters, I want to get back to beating them on the field every year way more than I want to beat them in recruiting battles.
As far as recruits. McDowell sucked, he was a lock for us for over a year. But they won't be taking Cornell from us, Cornell has been an ND lean, they'll be taking him from ND. And Cole is a Sparty lean because of his relationship with Blackwell.
Regardless, we're always going to beat Sparty at recruting, I want to also beat them every year on the field.
I don't understand how MSU gets these 3-star guys to be so good. It already looks like Hicks and Waynes are gonna be a pretty good pair of CBs. Now Cooper looks good at DE and we already know Calhoun is already pretty good and Rush is not exactly a scrub. Despite the fact that this defense looks good again I am still hopeful that losing guys like Bullough, Lewis, Dennard, and Allen is gonna hurt them. Maybe that's wishful thinking, but I think UM can win in E. Lansing, but it's not gonna be as easy as I would have thought a few months ago.
April 26th, 2014 at 10:48 PM ^
And Mandarich used horse hormones...thats why he was passing the sorry tests, until later when he couldnt pass them he used a someone elses piss. Itll come out sooner or later on bullogh and the others
April 27th, 2014 at 12:26 AM ^
This is awesome.
April 26th, 2014 at 10:59 PM ^
April 26th, 2014 at 11:43 PM ^
I am going to give you the benefit of the doubt since you have only been around as a screen name as of last fall ... so short version.
Hollis went in and demanded back to back home games vs UM in return for UM getting MSU in the same division and by definition not losing the annual game (i.e. MSU would be a crossover game if they had gone to the other divsion). Since then many have scratched their head over Brandon's negotiation skills because frankly all MSU brought to the table as a poker chip was "if you don't give us what we want, we are going to go to the other division and by doing so give up the only game we live for, plus playing OSU every year. So take that!"
On that note, we are playing at Ryan Field two years in a row as well but since Chicago is almost like a home game for us I guess that didn't matter.
April 27th, 2014 at 12:28 AM ^
Ryan may be a bit of a home game, but your initial point about Brandon was right, too: Sparty and Northwestern are the two back-to-back road games, and the compensation for that is getting...Indiana and Minnesota at home two years in a row? Is Dave Brandon by chance descended from whichever Russian sold Alaska to the US?
But if you look closely enough, you might find that his ancestors sold Manhattan to the Dutch for a song.
April 26th, 2014 at 11:45 PM ^
We did not play at Spartan stadium last year. We played at home.
(Shhhh! He probably wasn't paying attention about that either.)
If Illinois or Purdue won the B1G and Rose Bowl last year, and 10 games 3 of the last 4 (or whatever it is), we'd sure as shit be paying attention. And they are the instate rival.
I was totally wrong on them last year, I thought they'd be bad. So I don't know anything. But I don't see a lot there. I watched a half.
- The DL you're talking about looking good was basically Calhoun, and was being blocked by TE (or not at all) when he was looking good. Lawrence Thomas is average. Rush is a tough SOB who never gives up, but an average athlete. And this Cooper kid looked good against the Finley kid from Cass Tech, who didn't block anyone the entire scrimmage. Their DT's are once again nondescript.
- LB's are not as good as last year. There's a #45 that looks like Denicos Allen and will be pretty good, but not as good as Allen. And Taiwan Jones is no Max Bullough - he doesn't have the experience or smarts (yet) to lead the D, and doesn't have the instincts Bullough did. Reshke is too small/young at this point, he spent a good bit of the scrimmage getting beat up. Riley Bullough is always a step slow yet.
- DBs are hard to judge, given how they were split up. Some nice plays, but lots of blown coverages. Judging from just this game, I'd say Oregon will be fucking with their safeties often in that early match-up.
- OL didn't look bad. If you want to be mad about something, be mad about their LT Conklin. I believe his dad played at M, and he looks pretty good. They have a good center, I think one guard. But they're dangerously thin at tackle, I'd bet. If Finley is the second best LT that's a real problem. My guess is that the kid playing RT on Conklin's team is actually the back-up LT. But overall they'll be OK.
- I agree WR looks like it has potential and depth.
- RB does not. Side note that during the broadcast they mentioned that Langford went to the same high school as Keyshawn Martin. It was Martin who kept pushing for Langford to get a scholarship, and paraphrasing "the coaches took a lot of convincing, but finally gave him scholarship". He wasn't some great recruiting find by Dantonio. If Langford goes down, they look like they'd be in trouble.
- Cook is good, has guts and makes good plays, but you've got to confuse him, and you've got to take advantage when he makes those poor decisions. The D won't be as dominating this year, so he'll be pressured to make more plays. He'll do so, but he'll also make more terrible choices.
- Their TE's are as bad as ours are at blocking. Maybe worse. Patty cake blocks, not good at staying in front.
- I noticed that often they blocked the same scheme that infuriated me last year for M: OG and OT double the DT on a pass play, leaving the DE for the RB. Maybe a lot of teams do this, though it seems insane. Langford is not good at pass pro.
- Nice offense in terms of playcalling, keeps a D off-balance. On running plays they blocked down hard, so when the almost-run-blitzing-every-play LBs shot their gaps, they were hit by a tackle or center while the guards swung around them. Good tactic. They also fake pumped for a big pass play. With the way the safeties play (cheating up to pick up LB coverages given the LBs commit to the run so quickly), for the life of me I can't understand why fake pump passes aren't part like an every other pass play thing against this D. Send a route mid-range and fake pump that safety, let him think he's getting an INT and throw it over top of him.
- This is real film on these guys. If anyone (opposing coach, player) wants to study them during the offseason, you've got a good data point. Contrast that to M, where nothing was learned. Yeah you get film the first few games anyway, but this is something available now in the offseason.
There's a sizeable portion of MGoBloggers who appear to believe that being a real Michigan fan requires being proudly ignorant of everything that occurs outside the confines of the Michigan athletic complex.
And predictably one of those people weighs in.
April 27th, 2014 at 11:38 AM ^
You want to know the truth? The truth is I did watch most of the 1st half and it was not fun to watch. They look good, and for a split squad game they have play makers all over the field on both sides of the ball. It was depressing and my 1st reaction was that they are pulling away from Michigan Football. Maye their best LB didn't even play in Davis, that kid who had 2-1/2 sacks vs us last year. I kept picking the holes they had, and then I'd remember that this is a split squad. Their split squads looked as talented as our full squads for our spring game. It's depressing and I have no idea how it got this bad so fast.
I bleed Maize and Blue! I love this team, but we've got some ground to make up and by the looks of things I don't think we've even begun to make up ground, in fact we're falling further behind right now. How the hell can they have 6 or 7 WRs who look better than most of ours when we're talking about starting a 175lb true freshman? How the hell do they have freshman all americans LTs who were walkons? And why are they getting 2 and 3 star guys and turning them into All Americans when our high 4 and 5 star guys aren't doing squat? They look bigger, faster, stronger, and just plain old better than us across the board right now. This is insanity! It's painful to admit that, but if we don't admit it we're not going to be able to right the ship.
Now I have to go to work tomorrow and listen to their grads talk shit all damned day about how awesome MSU Football is and I won't even be able to mumble something about them taking a big step back in 2014, because they won't be taking any step back much less a big one and we can't count on that in the future. In order for us to put it right, Michigan Football is going to have to become a top 10 team every season again because those boys in E Lansing are building something real. Michigan Football is going to have to elevate to a new level to hold serve. And I'm not one of those fans that wants both squads to be great, I want MSU to go 0-12 every year and lose each game by 50 while half their players blow both their knees out. I hate Ohio more, but I don't have to deal with asshat Ohio fans every damned day at work and around town, it's sickening. This is an absolute nightmare.
April 27th, 2014 at 12:18 PM ^
and all that. Did you happen to notice the first play from scrimmage was an interception? Did you happen to notice their RS FR Left Tackle, #73, was a revolving door to the backfield? Compare that to Mason Cole, true freshman, who more than held his own at Left Tackle. Notice how they didn't bust any runs for more than five yards or so? I did, I also noticed that Michigan did in fact bust some runs for 10-15 yards.
Michigan had some problems, so did MSU. If you're not going to wear maize and blue glasses that doesn't require you to wear green glasses. Clear will do just fine.
So I'm supposed to be heartened that their RS fr. LT, (Who will not see the field in 2014) has some work to do? OK. One big difference betwen the two Spring games, they had a split squad, we didn't. Our 1st team offense could string together a few 1st downs in our Spring game. Just telling it like I see it, and anyone who watched the two Spring games objectively saw that there seems to be a difference between the two teams.
As far as recruiting rankings and development. Sure, it's crazy to see their 2 stars become great, and we all know that stars do matter, but I think too much is made of MSU's 2 star guys, they have plenty of 4 star guys who are contributing, and they also have a mess of really high 3 star guys, it's not like all of their players are 2 star guys, they get more 4 star guys than 2 star ones.
I think it's not any one thing. MSU evalutes HS talent just a little better than most, they develop talent just a little bit better than most, they have maybe a little better S&C coach than most, and their coaches are maybe a little better than most. Add that up and it allows their 3.1 star on average players to outplay our 3.5 star on average players. It's not like their average recruit is a 2.2 star, they're not turning MAC players into AAs, most of their players are high 3 star recruits. You know, we have some extremely talented high 3 star guys too. Guys like Clark, JMFR, and Morgan are all 3 star guys who have outplayed the 4 star guys we put with them.
I don't know, I think this last season has made me bitter and I feel deflated. It's especially tough since I really thought we were ready to reclim our spot among the elite programs. It's even tougher knowing that classless program in East Lansing has seemingly lapped ours. What's even more ominous is that they just beat us for a 5 star DE in 2014 and now theylead for another one in 2015? I shutter to think what will happen if they start recruting closer to our level.
I would love some coaches to chime in. I don't know football from a coaching perspective. I am just a fan. Now granted, more than a normal fan as I read this and other blogs about football, watch every game, and pay attention not just to the score but what's going on and the break downs of the game. And, I've worked as a strength coach with Division I football. But, I don't know schematics, player development, etc. And, I have seen a number of guys from MSU that were 3-star type guys turn into really good players and NFL draft picks. And, it seems at times that UM has had a bunch of 4-star types not pan out to much. Now that may be just bias rearing its ugly head.
But, I've also seen the research on recruiting rankings, so I know they matter. Over the long haul recruiting stars matter and the higher recruiting classes beat the lower ones the vast majority of the time. So, if we are not winning then something else has to be going on. It has to be development, scheme, coaching, youth, depth etc. And, I will say that you have to give time to develop your recruiting stars. I think we all agree that the biggest problem at UM is the offensive line. That position wasn't really answered until the 2013 recruiting class (Bosch, LTT, Kugler, Dawson, Fox) and to a lesser degree the '12 class (Kalis, Braden & Mags). So, until the 2013 class is in their 3rd year you can't really do/say much. Offensive linemen for the most part are just not ready to contribute until their 3rd year, especially if you have the entire line trying play as 2nd and 3rd year players. So, with all that said, I still think you can't truely evaluate if all these recruiting classes are really any good and if the coaches are doing good at developing them until 2015 and the '12 and '13 class are both upperclassman. I know we are all frustrated and impatient but you just have to hold off judgement until kids are in their 3rd year.
What playmakers did you see though? An early pick on an abominable throw by the 3rd string QB. An early sack by the Cooper kid - watch that play and tell me if the OT did anything at all to block him. And that's their 2nd string LT (!), if starting lineups are accurate. A Burbridge TD on a busted coverage. Nice catch by a TE, but that guy can't block. The TE that can block dropped a wide open pass. Lots of busted coverages and missed throws. Cook threw two picks, I believe. This really did look like a good team, not a great team.
When you watched the M game, did you note "playmakers all over the field"? When Clark got a sack every other play, did you say "OMG HE'S UNSTOPPABLE" like you are these Sparty players? No, you complained about our OL play. Go back and watch the OL play on the Calhoun and Cooper sacks.
When Jourdan Lewis picked off two balls and was all over his guys in coverage, did you say playmaker? Or lament our Devin's poor throws? When our DL penetrated, did you say note that a true freshman (Mone), a redshirt freshman (Hurst), and a returning player we expect to take the next step (Henry) were looking pretty outstanding? How about Jarrod Wilson making a great play on really the only ball he had to make a play on?
Sparty has no one like Funchess, no one like Gardner, no one like Ryan, no one like Pipkins or Henry or Wormley, no one as good as Butt (who also didn't play, just like their starting LB; and neither did our starting LT, or our starting Center - at least not at his true position with the 1's). They have some pieces we don't. It's possible Darboh comes back, Chesson matures, Canteen continues being what he looked to be in the spring and we have better WR's. Our DB's may be the best in the conference by the end of the year. If Taco Charlton were playing against that Finley kid in the spring game he would have had 8 sacks and you'd be glowing over him right now.
Shake the angst out - it's clouding your judgment. Sparty will have a good team, and yes they've got great coaches right now. Hoke and his staff must outcoach their opponents next year - Desmond Howard was right, that's the expectation. But from a personnel standpoint, I believe M and Sparty are about even. And I see more potential on M's team.
Your line about more potential...well, that's certainly possible. Considering the youth and high school ranking, that seems like a fair statement. But I think if you saw an O vs D game instead of a split squad, you may have a different opinion about the two teams being even.
Finely is behind - that was evident. But he's the 4th best OT on the team. And a solid JUCO OT is coming in this fall that will likely (eventually) hold that spot - 4th best OT.
The starting interior is Allen, Jackson, and walk-on Kruse (a SR who has played often and solidly). That will be a strength. No concerns with Conklin. Clark is at least serviceable as the other starting OT.
Keiler had a decent game - a RS frosh OT. Probably the 3rd best on the team.
McGowan and Higgins are interior backups - both RS Sophs. Both seem to be playing well enough for backup.
Most are saying the OL won't be worse than last years, and probably better.
Cook will do just fine. He does take chances, but he's a gamer. Tough to change that style. I see some picks this year, but it's give and take.
Burbridge is playing well - better than that.. Kings and Arnett sat out, and both are playing very well this spring - especially Arnett, and Kings is already a playmaker. Lippett, Mumphrey, and Kings are likely starters, but those other two are right there, and no reason to think they won't be starting eventually. Shelton will see plenty of action as well.
Kittridge was listed as a starting DT last year, but sat out with an injury. He's back to full form - actually a little bigger.
Ed Davis didn't play - and he's very good. Taiwan Jones is a MLB now. Good marks so far, but he likely has a ways to go before he's like Bullough. He's 250+ and can really move. Damien Harris will likely be the other OLB. Lots of fighting for positions/playing time from the younger guys.
The DL will be fine. Callhoun is already proven. Cooper - not just against Finley in the scrimmage - has been getting rave reviews at rosebowl practice and all spring. Rush is Rush - good. Heath moved inside to DT, and getting high marks. Lots of backup help at DT - maybe even a freshman will get his feet wet this year. Knox and Clemons are likely backups. Knox saw plenty of solid time last year. Thomas will play. Still has a high ceiling. Kind of a DE/DT twinner. Extremely quick for a big guy. He could shine or bust.
The DB's are going to be good. Drummond is one of the top safety's in the league. WIlliamson and Cox are battling it out, and Williamson was a very good backup last year. And RS freshman Powell is apparently impressing beyond those two.
Waynes is as good as anyone in the league, and Darian Hicks will likely be the other corner - but there's still quality competition with 3 other guys.
RB: It will likely go Langford, then Williamson. That should do just fine. Holmes and Hill will see time too. None of these guys are (appear) to be NFL guys, but all get the job done.
TE: Yeah, Price isn't a great blocker - he'll be a soph this year. He does have good hands and some running ability. Gleichert is back. They were the top two last year. There are other guys battling it out. Lyles is up to 250 and is making noise this spring. But, when Butt returns, UofM has the better TE.
Geiger and Sadler make a great kicking combo. A great D and a great K/P combo can win games with a dud O vs most of the bigten. But this O will not be a dud.
MSU got a fantastic D recruiting class for 2014 - which of course doesn't mean anything until they produce. 2015 is looking good so far, and MSU is in on a lot of guys that used to be pipe dreams.
This is not the MSU program you grew up with. And this is not the UofM program you grew up with.
Honestly, it's all about UofM's OL. If they can improve a decent amount each year, 2015 and especially 2016 could be fantastic years. But I don't see it happening in 2014.
April 28th, 2014 at 12:16 PM ^
But the "not the program you grew up with" lines are an unnecessary strawman, and sounds like brah-brah chest puffing. I'm judging only what I saw on the field at the scrimmage, and I don't see a dominant team.
I say your OL will be OK. Funoti is a big loss, but you look OK. I don't think McGowan looked very good. Who's #61? He's terrible, I assume not part of the plan going forward.
At RB I think Langford is very good - he has a way of waiting for the hole to appear, then darting through it. Holmes was generic, and Hill is not very good - I think even in the spring game the defense was pinning its ears back and teeing off on him when they could, sensing the little guy was in. At WR, I agree there is skill and depth.
I think your DL will be fine as well - just not outstanding like a lot of the overreactions in this thread are intimating. Weaker DT's - not terrible, but not great... they are generic B1G interior DL - with good ends. Calhoun is very good, not unbelievably outstanding the way he's being portrayed by many. Rush is good, as I said. Cooper we'll have to see - we've had our share of bowl practice heroes around here as well. Last year had two: Maurice Hurst and Henry Poggi. The first looked great this spring, the second looks like third or fourth string 5T. Your LB's won't be as good as last year, and your DB's won't be either. I see a good defense, with possible questions at safety (talent, yes, but not playing time) and with that agressive scheme I see some busts.
On offense you look fine, as I was indicating. I like Cook as I say, but see some risk there if he tries to make more plays to make up for a lack of dominant D. OL is thin, I suspect. Still believe there's trouble if Langford goes down - it was him stepping up that improved the Offense for you last year in my opinion, along with improved OL play.
I see a good team, just not worthy of overreaction. M has another oustanding class coming in, including the #1 or #2 player in the country. M should expect to be every bit as good as Sparty this year, and in my opinion has the potential to be better. Yep, everybody knows it's all dependent on the OL. But if that wasn't a question mark, expectations would be much, much higher.
^ - Their 2nd best RB (Williams, who looked really good last year as a FR) didn't play. - Their safeties are legit, they are loaded there. Its at CB were they should have problems.
Its impossible to take that much away from that game, especially considering the talent is split up across teams. Nothing is going to look cohesive, nor should it. Same for UM, too (or any team's spring game).
I don't believe they will be dominant defensively as we've seen in the past few years, but they might be able to make up for it offensively this year. The key is their O-Line. They have to replace everything up front. That Oregon game will be very telling about where they actually are talent wise.
The one thing that does bother me, though, is that it just looks like MSU has better athletes, which is something I simply don't understand. It would actually make more sense if they were just "coached up" better than us, but a lot of those guys just look bigger/stronger/faster. The talent we have should = better athletes, even if they haven't come along as football players yet, but it actually seems to be the reverse. Some of our players are very skilled, but lack elite athletic talent.
I frequent another message board, and one of the members questioned what UM was doing with it's S&C. I'm starting to feel the same way...
April 27th, 2014 at 10:45 AM ^
If saying I don't know anything isn't a massive qualifier, I don't know what is. But I disagree that you can't take much away from this - it was played like a real game by all players. I can watch Conklin vs. Calhoun and say the first is pretty good and the second is overrated (at least vs. AA team nominations he received last year). I can see Reshke get bounced around like a ping-pong ball (though not unexpected for a young kid), and Riley Bullough moving a half-step behind him. I didn't see the other RB last year, so I can only comment on what was there. In terms of cohesion, if you're talking about the defensive busts, you're still playing a coverage. Cox got lost and let a guy go right behind him (but he also made some nice plays later). They don't have a lot of time to clean that up before Oregon - and the Ducks are obsessed with messing with safeties.
In terms of athletes, I've had a similar thought on M, but not on Sparty. IOW, I've looked at many teams in CFB and thought their players looked bigger and faster than Michigan's. I've thought that going back to RichRod days. But I think that's changing. I don't really see a lot of athletic guys for Sparty, not more than the norm. Their DB's maybe. Certainly not their interior DL or their OL.
So why the success? They have had great player development, but also some luck with those players. Their Offense is mediocre. And their defense has been great because it's a great scheme for college - take advantage of pass interference rules and count on the fact that college QBs can't make you pay for being aggressive. And they coach it extremely well. Losing a field general like Bullough, along with Lewis, might really hurt them.
I always root for the underdogs.
Sparty is flat out getting lucky with some of their recruits. Bell, Waynes, Dennard were all 2 stars and will all be 1st 2 round NFL picks. That's just a lot of luck. Cooper looks good, he was supposed to be a high 4 star recruit, but blew his knee out, Sparty took a chance in sticking with him and it panned out. Just an incredible amount of luck.
There's more going on there though, looking at their players physically it's pretty obvious. They have some young guys too, but you're telling me not a player on their team has an ounce of baby fat? The only way to get so many 2 and 3 star guys to that level is to give them a little extra something IMO. You'll have a few players overachieve, but to have almost an entire roster over achieving, the odds of that are extremely remote IMO. Statistically it does not seem possible without help.
You are really overreacting.