When will DG start at QB?
I'm not sure if this was covered on the Devin Gardner thread (there are 143 replies, of which I did not read all) but I was reading some articles on scout the past couple of days all of which stated the dramatic improvement to Devin Gardner's throwing motion over the past few weeks. Given his propensity to keep growing (reported at 6'5" 230 lbs. by TJBeaver, with common thought having him at 6'5" 210-215 lbs.),his rapidly improving throwing ability (his achilles heel) and his impressive performances at recent camps, many people have him slated to move up in the rankings and possibly pick up a 5th star.
That raises my question, how long do you think it will be before Devin puts all of the physical tools together and is able to overcome Tate as the starting quarterback?
I think that he needs a redshirt year, and might be on par with Tate (at that point) by his RS-Sophmore year. However, given that Tate will be a senior by then I find it difficult to imagine Rodriguez starting* DG over Tate, which leaves his RS-Junior and RS-Senior years to wow us all. What do you guys think?
*I think that he will see playing time, much like I expect Denard to see this year
Note: This wasn't meant to be "who's better, DG is da shiznit, Tate suckzzzz." It was simply meant to mirror the thought that many people are starting to develop EXTREMELY high expectations for DG (TJBeaver is starting to throw out the term potential College AA)
I hope not until he's a redshirt junior. He will see snaps before then, but I hope Tate and Denard are good enough to allow this to happen.
Will heavily depend on how well Tate and Denard perform. With the QB often running in this type of offense, injuries could factor in. If either Tate or Denard don't pan out, then DG could quickly become the back-up QB and get some early playing time. If he really does turn out to have AA skills, he might not ever give the starting job back. All that said, I also hope he sits and learns during a redshirt year.
That's what I was saying. You just added more words to it.
as much as we'd like him to redshirt i don't see how it is possible. he'll probably need to start as our backup qb. unless denard provides really significant competition, he'll probably be moved to DB.
You can always redshirt the backup. If somebody goes down you can then lift the redshirt.
Hopefully Denard/a walk on will emerge as a solid backup and Gardner can redshirt.
If Tate entrenches himself, DG would likely move to another position, where he has shown in camps to be capable of, or transfer to where he can play QB.
Otherwise, he starts his redshirt sophomore or freshman year.
Again, it depends on DR and Tate. Unless DG is VY incarnate. (Confused yet? If he's another Vince Young, he'll play very, very quickly.)
if Gardner redshirts that puts two years between him and Tate. I don't know when people started forgetting that starting 2 years at a BCS school is the rule, and starting 4 years is the exception. Its highly unlikely that Gardner would transfer just because he might only start 2 years. He must know right now that that is the most likely scenario, so I doubt he'd be committed if it bothered him that much.
Man, how quick people forget. I am looking foward to the day when we can follow recruiting and then wait two years to see those guys touch the field. Every year we should be bringing in A level talent at QB as well as most positions. What should we do, start a new freshman every year?
You never know about transfers, but Gardner isn't moving to another position. If he plays at Michigan, it will be as a quarterback.
Magnus.... I read somewhere that at a recent elite camp, that Gardner was not only the best QB but also the best WR, and also present was Ricardo Miller. Gardner could easily play WR, if Forcier (or Denard) plays very well to the tune of say, a 10 win season... if they play well enough, they won't be benched.
Magnus.... I read somewhere that at a recent elite camp, that Gardner was not only the best QB but also the best WR, and also present was Ricardo Miller. Gardner could easily play WR, if Forcier (or Denard) plays very well to the tune of say, a 10 win season... if they play well enough, they won't be benched.
I'm not saying he can't play WR. I'm saying he won't. There aren't many Devin Gardner-type quarterbacks who come around, and Robinson is more likely to switch positions than Gardner. The coaches aren't going to stunt the development of their future QB (Gardner) by playing him at WR for two or three years.
Just because Gardner can play at WR in college doesn't mean he WANTS to play there. If he has his heart set on being a QB, then he would probably rather transfer than switch to a different position.
He is a freak athlete. However, there are other freak athletes at WR and not very many at QB. Given RR's desire to have an athletic quarterback who can throw AND run, DG's talents will be better suited at QB and he will undoubtedly be used there for the remainder of his eligibility. The only time you'll see him play WR is on a trick play.
Case 1:a) Nick Sheridan
i'm thoroughly confused - you think nick sheridan is a good athlete?
is that a serious question?
Wow. That's all I have to say.
what just happened here?
I'm now lost in a sea of missed sarcasm and hilarity
HILARIOUS. + eleventy billion to you sir, and may God bless you in such a way that your future daughters do not grow up to be sluts.
Thanks for making me laugh.
If Tate or Denard starts for 4 years, Gardner could still be a 2 year starter.
In other words, no.
If he's another Vince Young?
VY redshirted, then didn't play until halfway through his RS freshman year, alternating playing time with Chance Mock. In that scenario, DG isn't playing until somewhere in early October 2011, and then he's alternating playing time with Tate.
If DG is better then Tate after 1 year, RR is not going to sit around and wait for Tate to graduate in order to sacrifice for his feelings. I hope to God DG is the second coming of Vince or Terrelle, and RR wisens up like the Vest and starts him when he sees fit. If he truly becomes 6'5" 230+, then he better damn well hit the field.
Terrelle? As in Pryor? What has he done to warrant us hoping Garner is a Terrelle? I can see hoping the guy's a Young or Vick but I'll wait 'til Pryor can consistently pass more than 5 yards downfield and also maybe completely take over a NC or bowl game before I hope a UM recruit is the next Pryor.
Yeah, Pryor only went 8-1 and completed 60% of his passes as a true freshman. He sucked!
Thank you Magnus
Et tu, Magnus...
While Pryor's numbers in 2008 were solid. I happen to believe that the Pryor hype is a TAD overblown at this point. Robert Griffin at Baylor had better numbers, also a true freshman and not surrounded by numerous NFL caliber players, in every category (passing and rushing) except completion % (56% IIRC) and yet no one is talking about him as a dark horse for the Heisman in 2009.
I honestly believe that Tate will have little trouble matching Pryor's numbers next year except in the TD to INT ratio which was the only area Pryor really excelled in last year.
If Tate is the starting QB in 9 games next year his numbers will likely be something like this:
65% completion
1600 yards
13 TD
7 INT
re: Griffin vs. Pryor
Tim Tebow won the Heisman last year, but that doesn't mean Colt McCoy sucked. In other words, even though Griffin was good, I'd still take Pryor's athleticism and production. If he played for Michigan last year and had those numbers, we'd be all over his nuts. But because he plays for OSU, Michigan fans are like, "Well, he's not very good anyway."
won the Heisman last year
...and you were paying attention!
Congratulations. You win a free picture of a hot girl:
http://www.uncoached.com/2009/06/18/the-sexy-girls-of-the-mexican-socce…
Pray tell, which one are you looking at? You must have some pretty specific standards....
I still would have rather had Robert Griffin, personally. Numbers is numbers and his were better than Pryor's.
However, while I agree that Pryor does not suck (to be fair the only person who said Pryor sucks is you, albeit sarcastically), I still believe that Tate will put up comparable numbers for UM as a true freshman in 2009.
Let's hope I'm right...
Yep, he threw over 200 yards once. He rushed over 100 yards once. His best games were against Troy, Northwestern, and the worst UM team in 100 years. Even against those teams his numbers were pedestrian.
I'm not saying he sucked or sucks. My point is what are you smoking comparing him to Young and why the hell would you settle for hoping for a UM QB to be only as "good" (or serviceable) as Pryor when there's dozens of better choices out there. Why not "I hope he's as good as Young, Tebow, Vick, McCoy, Bradford, Stafford," etc. to infinity.
Okay, let's compare Pryor's true freshman stats to Vince Young's true freshman stats.
Wait a minute, Vince Young redshirted when he was a freshman.
Pryor (Fr.): 100/165, 60.6%, 1311 yards, 12 TDs, 4 INTs, 139 carries, 631 yards, 4.5 YPC, 6 TDs
Young (RS Fr.): 84/143, 1155 yards, 58.7%, 6 TDs, 7 INTs, 135 carries, 998 yards, 7.4 YPC, 11 TDs
So even though Pryor was a year younger, he was a better passer than Young. His rushing statistics obviously weren't as good, but the point is in relationship to Devin Gardner:
If Devin Gardner is good enough to replicate Pryor's freshman numbers* (which we can only believe will improve throughout his college career), then we should all be pretty happy.
*I realize Gardner might not play as a true freshman, but for the sake of the argument, I'm pretending.
right now it seems like you are trying to make an argument that Pryor = Vince because Pryor's freshman year stats were slightly better than Vince's RF stats.
When Young finally started kicking everyone's ass how many times did we hear about Mack Brown "finally letting Vince be Vince?" Maybe his barely lesser stats were a result of Brown under-utilizing him?
None of this really pertains to my point, though. It's fine to say that we hope Tate's or DR's freshman year is = or > than Pryor's freshman year because literally anything is better than Threet/ Sheridan. But to say "I hope to God" that some player at least a year or more away from even coming to UM "is the second coming" of an as yet barely serviceable passer and slightly above average runner is quite ludicrous. I can see hoping he's the second coming of Vince or Troy Smith (I threw that in there for the moron that thinks just because Pryor's at ous some of us automatically think he sucks). Let's wait to see if Pryor can live up to half his hype before we start wishing UM's recruits are like him.
How is MAGNUS making the argument that Pryor = Vince when they person who brought Vince into the discussion in the first place was YOU?
Magnus merely pointed out that at this point, Pryor's first year was better than Young's, even though it occurred one full year earlier, and without a full year of practice. In other words, he showed that you were just wrong.
YOU are the one that brought Young into it, saying that Pryor isn't Young. The fact is, at this point, he's beyond Young. That's not saying he will be better in 2 years, it's saying where he is now.
YOU were the one who brought Vince into it. Do you not realize your first post is the whole reason for this back and forth between me and Magnus? He's been here trying to argue a statement you made.
You are fondling yourself with the thought that some guy who's only verballed to UM and is at least a year away from even being on campus is going to be the second coming of an as yet unproven player. You were right to pray he's a Vince clone but why settle for Pryor based on mediocre freshman stats? Henne had way better stats as a freshman. How 'bout we hope DG is the second coming of Henne? Do you not see that?
Again, to hope Tate or DR have Pryor-like stats in their freshman year is fine. That's way better than UM got out of Threet/Sheridan. But to hope a guy years away from playing is going to be the next Pryor based on hype and barely promising freshman stats?
And no, Magnus did not prove me wrong. I merely asked why hope a recruit is going to be as good as an unproven commodity versus one of the greatest dual threat QB to play the game.
Edit: Whoops. You weren't the guy who made the fist post I was responding to. Read the chitown part and forgot all about your re-emergence. Read chitownwolverine82's post. You can tell when someone's responding to a post because there's a bit of an indent beneath the first one. Yes, that last bit was sarcasm.
How is MAGNUS making the argument that Pryor = Vince when they person who brought Vince into the discussion in the first place was YOU?
Magnus merely pointed out that at this point, Pryor's first year was better than Young's, even though it occurred one full year earlier, and without a full year of practice. In other words, he showed that you were just wrong.
YOU are the one that brought Young into it, saying that Pryor isn't Young. The fact is, at this point, he's beyond Young. That's not saying he will be better in 2 years, it's saying where he is now.
well, since DR is faster then Tate, we aren't sure if this is football speed though... DR should be QB, so then who says that DG is going to be better then DR?
I was waiting for someone to bring this point up. This argument was formulated on the basis that DR would will not be the starting qb. A very bold assumption based on zero evidence but an assumption nonetheless.
Beware the Beaver!
Tom has a knack for missing big-time on his predictions for which players will be "studs" at UM. I used to be a premium member at GoBlueWolverine and during my time there Tom gushed over such players as Ryan Mallett, Sam McGuffie and Dann O'Neil...so, yeah.
Note: I am not trying to take a shot at Tom or GoBlueWolverine. In fact, I still frequent the free board at GBW, just pointing out from my experience that Tom can get a little carried away at times in his evaluations. To be fair, he is a UM grad and fan just like the rest of us.
McGuffie had 2 100 yard games as a true freshman and showed true flashes of ability, and the jury is still out on Mallett. So Beaver could very well be proved right about 2 of those 3. That accuracy rate is not bad. I'm not a reader of his, but that record doesn't seem scoff-worthy.
I was speaking only to their impact at UM, but since we're discussing the matter...
I contend that the two easiest positions for a "stud" recruit to make an immediate impact as a true frosh are WR and RB. McGuffie averaged a measly 4.0 ypc, scored only 3 rushing TD's and his longest run of the season was only 29 yards. Mike Shaw, because of injury, saw much less time than McGuffie and was more effective in terms of ypc and longest run and it wasn't even close. Not to mention recent true frosh RB's at other schools (Quizz Rodgers) and former UM guys (Mike Hart) who vastly outperformed McGuffie.
Mallett's numbers as a passer were about the same as Steve Threet (in terms of completion % and TD-INT ratio) and I don't know too many people who were happy with Threet's performance last year. Throw in his extreme case of fumbleitis and I would call his time at UM pretty meh.
McGuffie's rushing was outstanding for a freshman, considering the line he was running behind, and the QB's. Most of his negative plays were because the line collapsed. I severely regret us losing him, and I think he will be great as a slot; where he is slotted to play.
Mallett would have been a beast here, had our system remained the same, IMHO.
I think the situation will play out similar to what happen with Vince Young at Texas. VY redshirted and then split time with Chance Mock his redshirt freshmen year before taking over full time his sophomore year. I think DG redshirts and then will split time with Tate his redshirt freshmen season. I think having two quality options going into 2012 or whenever that will be will be great. If Tate is still the QB then that means he has played well his first 3 years and will be poised to have a great senior campaign. If DG takes over it means he is the best man for the job. Either way we should be in a great position!
it all depends on whether or not Tate stays healthy. If he does, then I think Gardner doesn't start until his rs junior year. If Tate gets hurt and Gardner plays well, he could pass Tate.
It is my feeling that DG will likely redshirt to really perfect whatever lingering issues he may have/ get stronger. I think his first year, Tate and Robinson will still be fighting it out for QB. Then he will likely see a decent amount of time in mop up duty/ change of pace QB as a RSFrosh.
It just seems to me that RR wants to have more than one competent QB, so he may not get 50% of the playing time. But maybe 20-30%. Maybe with some special packages put into the O just for him, much like Tim Tebow shared time with Chris Leak while at Florida.
He will start whenever he's the best QB on the roster.