What does it take for a coach to make a radical, philosophical change?
I’m tired of all the horse-beating, tired posts around here either whining about Harbaugh or pining for Campbell. I am hoping we could objectively look at what it takes for a coach, especially a seasoned, well-established winner, to fundamentally change the way his team approaches the game?
Nick Saban is the perfect example. Years ago his teams were caught in 10-7 slugfests and when he realized the direction the modern game was headed he radically changed. Now, Bama is the equivalent of the mid-aughts Oregon in so many ways, minus the pure spread nature of the offense.
So, what does it take for a WINNING coach to change so radically? Is it harder or easier for someone with a proven track record to make that switch than it is for a coach who’s performance demands it? Does it come from the coach or the myriad of assistants that bring unique ideas and experiences to the table?
I remain someone who has hopes in a Harbaugh-led regime, but I think change comes from the assistants over time, vs a radical shock to the system.
January 11th, 2021 at 10:44 PM ^
Being fired is a good place to start.
January 11th, 2021 at 10:44 PM ^
They don’t, ever. And if they try, they can’t let themselves do it.
January 11th, 2021 at 11:09 PM ^
He literally provided an example in the damn post.
January 12th, 2021 at 6:04 AM ^
Really BlueMetal, did RR or Headset Hoke or Lloyd adapt? Maybe it’s something that has to do with us. And the “example” isn’t necessarily proving anything, for every Saban there are 100 Hokes.
January 12th, 2021 at 12:42 AM ^
They do, even Harbaugh has changed. Unfortunately it’s not our Harbaugh.
January 11th, 2021 at 10:46 PM ^
Recruit better players. Not one skill player for OSU is from Ohio.
January 11th, 2021 at 10:49 PM ^
I don’t want them, I want the ones bama has
January 11th, 2021 at 11:26 PM ^
Huh? What does where a player is from have to do with anything?
January 12th, 2021 at 12:43 AM ^
Really? You haven’t seen the obsession this board has about recruiting Ohio better? Apparently if you recruit Ohio, you rule the world. According to some.
January 12th, 2021 at 10:42 AM ^
There is no doubt recruiting is a big part of it. Alabama, OSU, Clemson all have better players than most. However, it's not all talent. They are significantly better coached. Their coordinators and position coaches are better too. The concepts Alabama ran last night along with their play sequencing was light years ahead of anything Michigan has done, maybe ever. They have talent, but they coach that talent up. Their kids perform their jobs with the proper technique virtually every time. The OP is 100% correct. Nick Saban saw where football was going and brought in guys to change what they do on offense. All that talent wouldn't be winning championships if they were the old ground and pound Alabama. They are always ahead of the curve in terms of offensive innovation. You can't win games with defense anymore. What offenses do is impossible to stop on a consistent basis. Even at the high school level where I coach. To beat elite teams you need to score and then get a couple of stops/turnovers a game.
January 11th, 2021 at 10:46 PM ^
Come on, Golding! At least make OSU burn some clock on their scoring drives ffs
January 11th, 2021 at 10:51 PM ^
You must first admit that you have a problem, deficit or improvement is needed before change can occur.
January 11th, 2021 at 11:37 PM ^
^This. We’ve been locked into this Bo-inspired 3-yards-and-a-cloud-of dust dogma for 50 years now.
January 12th, 2021 at 12:44 AM ^
It also hasn’t been “3 yards” for awhile. That would be an improvement.
January 12th, 2021 at 10:20 PM ^
Touché
January 12th, 2021 at 5:59 AM ^
He gave the offense to Gattis in an attempt to do a spread makeover in what, ‘18? And no, he isn’t calling plays, influencing things, or possessing Gattis to call run plays.
We switched. We just have an unproven play caller who seems highly QB dependent. And we have had a hard time developing QB’s.
January 11th, 2021 at 10:50 PM ^
A good streak of sociopathy, for one.
January 12th, 2021 at 1:22 AM ^
100%. Let's use that extra $4 million we saved. Invest in some young, talented folks who are future leaders and best.
January 11th, 2021 at 10:55 PM ^
They're normal people just the like the rest of us. They've gotta do a lot of peyote in the desert with a guy named "Flip" who hasn't been the same since 'nam
January 11th, 2021 at 10:55 PM ^
You have to be willing to let assistants bring ideas, and use them. You have to be willing to do things differently from how you learned them. You have to be willing to learn new things yourself.
What we see with Harbaugh are the same errors we've seen since 2015 - no tempo, no clock management, no 2 minute drill, no consistent scheme to hang a hat on, no consistent recruiting philosophy... Since 2017, Ed Warinner, Pep Hamilton, Tim Drevno, and Josh Gattis have been involved in designing an offense and calling plays - yet nothing has changed within this program.
You tell me - do we have a coach that can make that radical change and fix what ails the team?
January 11th, 2021 at 11:30 PM ^
Yup have to be willing to let it go and stop trying to go back to your comfort zone. It takes some humility to acknowledge that others may be better suited to call the offense or that their philosophy will be more successful but the ability to adapt is what makes a great head coach.
January 11th, 2021 at 10:59 PM ^
Getting kicked in the head by a horse.
Maybe Xtramelanin could help.
January 11th, 2021 at 11:15 PM ^
Indiana came A LOT closer to beating ohio st than osu is to bearing any horses, dead or alive.
January 11th, 2021 at 11:00 PM ^
You have to be exposed to and immerse yourself into new systems on O and/or D that really make you think there is a better way. Key isn’t just seeing it, but gaining a deep understanding
January 12th, 2021 at 9:11 AM ^
This...and particularly your last word-"understanding". If one does not deeply embrace the growth and learning that is personally required here keeping up with the game will be a struggle. One needs to embrace on-going learning and make tweaks to your system that employ/exploit/enable the best skills of all your players-every season, every game, every play. Pounding talent into your square holes destroys the talent. This is as much art as science.
January 11th, 2021 at 11:02 PM ^
Define a "radical philosophical change."
You cite Saban, which seems like a pretty good example. His most obvious adaptation was installing no-huddle concepts and a higher emphasis on the passing game; he is also willing to run the QB from the gun, as he did with Hurts, but is perfectly content to throw bombs to his star receivers.
He was pretty open about what he was doing; the world was doing that, so he started doing it too.
But in some sense a lot of coaches adapt in small ways like that. Mike Debord was running a lot of read-option when he was the OC at Tennessee, for example, and his offense at Indiana looked almost nothing like his Michigan offenses from days gone by. Harbaugh's offenses haven't been very good under Gattis, but they sure do look a lot different. (The one question I want a good answer on, one that seems to be a key to understanding a lot of what goes on inside the room: Why did Michigan start three straight seasons with one philosophy of run blocking and change in the middle of the year?). Last year's LSU offense took place under Ed Orgeron, not exactly known as a high-flying guy.
Certain things don't change as much as it appears; I'll bet that the playcalling language the Chiefs use and many of the route concepts are similar to what Andy Reid has run for decades. But the offense, obviously, looks a lot different than what he had in Philadelphia. So some elements of philosophy are the same, but some are different.
So really it's a question of what you mean by "philosophy." If you're talking about the wider view, run-first or pass-first, well... that changes from year to year anyway. Football is very different from what it was 20 or 30 years ago. If you're talking about play concepts, that can change with specific assistants. If you're talking about a "system," same thing--except a HC with a "system" will keep the "system" and any changes will be adaptations of it.
By some definitions, Harbaugh has already overseen multiple changes of both offensive and now defensive philosophy. By others, he's still Harbaugh.
January 12th, 2021 at 6:24 AM ^
We’ve had a lot of reports that Harbaugh gave the Keyes to Gattis and stepped back. On top of that we have had analysis from people with the ability to do so that shows this offense is radically different than what Harbaugh ran.
What really hurts is that what Harbaugh ran in ‘15 and’16 was overall *better* than our no huddle spread now.
But the things that people point to (running into a stacked box, poor clock management) to me are more easily and logically explained by the fact that Gattis is a new play caller who is t real good at it yet.
this “run play I don’t like bad play call = harbaugh took over and is stubborn” doesn’t stand up to the facts we have.
January 12th, 2021 at 8:00 AM ^
I'd like to think he gave all the keys to Gattis, but he makes it so difficult to believe that! Besides, I'm not sure how you can blame clock management and consistently running into 8 & 9 man boxes a Gattis problem - Michigan has been doing that since 2015! (Well, a lot further back than that, actually, but lets stick to recent times!) A majority of things people complain about are things that have a history back to 2015, sometimes they've been worse, sometimes better, but they've all been around despite the various parts involved with the offense over the years. The common denominator is the head coach.
I have no doubt that Gattis needs some seasoning, and some help running the offense (specifically with the run game and QB coaching). But you cannot blame things that have been happening since 2015 on him alone...
January 11th, 2021 at 11:07 PM ^
Hire Steve Sarkisian who’s an offensive master mind instead of Josh Gattis who uses the Tecmo Bowl playbook.
January 11th, 2021 at 11:10 PM ^
But with that playbook all you need is Bo Jackson.
January 11th, 2021 at 11:27 PM ^
Or the old Montana to Rice connection.
January 12th, 2021 at 6:58 AM ^
Lol. Sarkesian even has Bo Jackson analogue. I kept chucking last night thinking Sarkesian must have had a hard time deciding between Devonta and Najee.
That said id love to see Moorehead in here. Gattis seems to need help.. And with Worthy (assuming he stays), Haskins, Charbinnet, Edwards, and a Warinner coached line it could be good.
But the QB’s need to improve (Harbaugh) and the WR’s need to improve (Gattis).
January 11th, 2021 at 11:10 PM ^
Just a basic acceptance of reality at this point. I know our coach and many fans really really want to win with defense, the running game, and FGs but that's just not how things work anymore.
January 11th, 2021 at 11:11 PM ^
My hat is off to Nick Saban. He adjusted on offense when he could have convinced himself that he didn't need to because of the talent he gets. He hated this kind of offense, but he knew the world was changing and changed with it.
January 11th, 2021 at 11:13 PM ^
"So, what does it take for a WINNING coach to change so radically?"
Nick Saban has the personality of a dried potato, but he's really fucking smart on top of being an incredibly demanding coach when it comes to the basics.
January 11th, 2021 at 11:15 PM ^
I'm not sure what you mean.
The defense changed when we went from Durkin to Brown and is set to change again next year with Brown gone.
The offense has basically changed every other year Drenvo from to Fisch to Pep to Gattis.
Although I think Harbaugh eventually needs to adopt a bit more aggressive approach on offense (e.g. more tempo, more going for on 4th down, etc.), but the bigger issues are more fundamental execution problems that need to get fixed first.
January 11th, 2021 at 11:25 PM ^
The aggressiveness is the entire point, the particular plays aren't relevant when things other than scoring are being prioritized. I would bet that fixes some of the execution problems as well.
January 11th, 2021 at 11:54 PM ^
I think that Harbaugh is still a bit behind the curve of where Alabama/OSU are, but I dont think he is exceptionally conservative either. I think in Harbaugh's mind, he probably feels you ought to win if you can score 35-40 points and play good defense. But to be elite in today's game, you need to be able to score 60+
The problem is, we are not putting up 40 points a game right now, so worrying about how to go from 40 to 60 is probably getting a little head of ourselves.
January 11th, 2021 at 11:57 PM ^
I don't think he's even made it to the 35-40. He's 0-11 in non-overtime games where the opponent scores 30.
January 12th, 2021 at 12:36 AM ^
Wow, is that right? That's insane if true.
But I think this reinforces what I was saying - if you can't score 30 that's more of an execution issue than a philosphical one. I dont believe even Harbaugh thinks you can still win consistently by only scoring in the teens or twenties.
January 12th, 2021 at 9:16 AM ^
I'm going to have to disagree, I watched the second half of the Army game.
January 11th, 2021 at 11:18 PM ^
Saban got beat, TWICE, by Hugh Freeze at Ole Miss in high scoring games and realized he needed an offense that could keep up, he hired guys that could get it done and Alabama OC is a launching pad to good jobs now.
Harbaugh's been beat a-lot, has hired guys, but its' clear he has not embraced exactly what it takes to compete at this level. Bama's playing a different sport tonight
January 12th, 2021 at 12:01 AM ^
When you say “he hired guys that could get it done” you are certainly talking about the players he bought, amirite?
January 12th, 2021 at 8:21 AM ^
UM has had 2 x ex-Alabama OCs (or co-OC). What is the holdup on results....
January 11th, 2021 at 11:27 PM ^
I think it is easier for a defensive coach like Saban to switch his offensive philosophy. To me. the more appropriate question for Harbaugh is, "Can a pro offensive mind make the transition to a modern spread and be effective?" If the modern game changed defense and everyone was going to a 3-3-5, would Saban be able to coach that as effectively?
If Urban was time-machined back to the mid 70s and made an NFL coach, could he coach a manball offense? It is tough enough to be a good coach, I would imagine it would make it that much harder coaching something you don't know like the back of your hand.
I played baseball at a high level and had summer league coaches that played all the way up to the show. I played when not bunting was becoming hip and when people would talk to these coaches about not bunting, it was as if people were speaking Chinese.
January 11th, 2021 at 11:51 PM ^
Humility and self-awareness.
January 12th, 2021 at 12:03 AM ^
Talent! Lots and lots of NFL caliber talent all across the field. OL, DL, QB, RB, WR, CB, LB and TE TALENT all at the same time every year!!!!
We only get it in 75% of our positions and those holes are exposed when you are playing against high level teams.
January 12th, 2021 at 12:22 AM ^
When I think of coaches who turned things around, they had to get humbled before they changed. That also meant they believed they had to change radically, which is what JH hasn't proven (yet).
Some good case studies:
1. JoePa had the run=run-pass teams of the 60s and 70s that looked good but never seemed to be able to win the big one. I remember Bama stopping a goal line stand in the 1979 Sugar Bowl when JP thought he could run it in. Later he got some passing QBs and found a way to win with Todd Blackledge.
2. BO at least twice. 1st after not being to win a Rose Bowl with option QBs and let his staff build a balanced offense with Wangler and Carter and three solid RBs to finally win a RB. Same thing after 6-6 1984 season when he realized off-tackle right on 3rd and 3 wasn't working anymore and opened up the O with more passing and solids running and four really solid season out of 5 1985-89.
3. Tom O at Nebraska after getting snuffed out in bowl games for several years decided to add team speed, especially on D and at QB and won huge vs. Florida 1995-96 season.
4. Spurrier who gave up 62 points in a humiliating loss to NU after the 1995 season brought in Bob Stoops as DC.
5. Urban who couldn't beat Clemson and got shutout 31-0 changes OC's and goes more aggressive and wins.
I haven't seen a single Um QB who could have won a NC for us since maybe JH back in the 1980s. Denard was great but w/o a D and when he faced a Bama wasn't very good.
JH was given a free pass and a lot of money and I supported it at the time to keep him from going to another NFL team. He was a hot commodity. For whatever fricking reason, he has been neutered since the 2016 OSU game. He either relights the fire or we will need a methodical, driven coach (and it will take 3-5 years) before we get even close again.
January 12th, 2021 at 12:40 AM ^
Don’t let Ace see this post, all he cares about is Campbell.