Updated ESPN FPI Projections for Remaining Games

Submitted by Maizinator on September 12th, 2022 at 5:06 PM

Decided to take advantage of the current $1 annual subscription for On3 today.

Saw that they posted the updated FPI outlook.  Thought it was interesting that @Iowa is now at 82.7% and approaching @Rutgers.

https://www.on3.com/teams/michigan-wolverines/news/michigan-football-espn-updates-fpi-projections-bowl-predictions/

Michigan football’s FPI outlook

Sept. 3 vs. Colorado State: 51-7 W (1-0)

Sept. 10 vs. Hawaii: 56-10 W (2-0)

Sept. 17 vs. UConn: 99.3% chance of victory

Sept. 24 vs. Maryland: 82% chance of victory

Oct. 1 at Iowa: 82.7% chance of victory

Oct. 8 at Indiana: 90.2% chance of victory

Oct. 15 vs. Penn State: 68.2% chance of victory

Oct. 29 vs. Michigan State: 68.3% chance of victory

Nov. 5 at Rutgers: 85.6% chance of victory

Nov. 12 vs. Nebraska: 91.9% chance of victory

Nov. 19 vs. Illinois: 90.9% chance of victory

Nov. 26 at Ohio State: 20.5% chance of victory


 

superstringer

September 12th, 2022 at 5:15 PM ^

If I did my math correct, this suggests only a 20.2% chance we are undefeated going into The Game.  That ought to be a lot -- a 1-in-5 chance of not losing eleven games in a row in the Big10 is pretty good, even if we were playing in the West Division -- but still feels, well, LOW.  Other than Sparty gonna Sparty, Iowa at Kinnick at night will have half a very good team (but, literally, only half), and PSU does have talent even if not coaching... I like our chances.  I'm taking the "over."

massblue

September 12th, 2022 at 6:51 PM ^

I don’t think the math is correct. There is no population of UM games that you are drawing random sample from it. It is more like an election than a lottery ticket. If there is 90% chance that Candidate X will win the upcoming election against Candidate Y, it does not mean after 10 elections, there is 76% probability that Candidate Y will win one of them.  A terrible candidate will never win even if it is polling 10%.

kejamder

September 12th, 2022 at 7:34 PM ^

But "90% chance that a candidate will win" is very different from "polling at 90%" (or polling at 10%). Polling at 90% would lead prognosticators to put the odds of winning an election at 99% or 100% (which is sort of what you said at the end, but you're drawing a tenuous link). Also, teams have definitely won after having a 10% chance of winning (see App State v. Texas A&M -900)

I think their math is probably right, because the population is all college games and the historical results of teams considered comparable to these. 

NittanyFan

September 12th, 2022 at 8:26 PM ^

+1,000,000,000 ------ sampling/polling can be a tricky statistical concept, but spot on.  

If Candidate A polls at 90%, his/her chances of losing are on the order of 1 in 10^100!  Truly infinitesimal.

Having a 90% chance of winning is on par with polling in the 53%-54% range.

massblue

September 12th, 2022 at 8:33 PM ^

There is no homogeneous population of college games that one can randomly draw from. The fact that FPI calls them probability, it does not make them probability in its true mathematical interpretation.  The above calculation uses a frequentist view of those figures. This will be correct, if there is a population which based on past frequency of observing games we make an inference about. There is no population and there is no large sample of these games in the past to estimate the properties of the population. The proper interpretation of those figures is to measure the confidence that FPI has in each game. One cannot multiply them to measure the overall confidence. There is no such thing.

Having said that, there is 120% probability that UM will go undefeated this year.

NittanyFan

September 12th, 2022 at 8:45 PM ^

Your first sentence isn't wrong --- but consider this analogy. 

There is no "homogenous population of atmospheres that one can randomly draw from."  Yet, weather forecasters will still consider where we are as of the moment, and make forecasts such as "Detroit has a 60% chance of rain Tuesday, 30% chance of rain Wednesday, and an 80% chance of rain Thursday." 

It's their best estimate at the probability based on their models.  And there is, IMO, definitely value in those best estimates.

In my above example, it would not be incorrect for the meteorologists to then say "the chance Detroit gets rain on each of the next 3 days is 14.4%."  (14.4% = 0.6 * 0.3 * 0.8).

--------

*** (I'm nowhere near Detroit right now, so I have no idea if it may rain there or not the next 3 days!)

DavidP814

September 12th, 2022 at 9:53 PM ^

The math is correct, per the FPI model itself.  It provides a "Win Out" probability for regular season + the conference championship.  Assuming Michigan is between a 75% and 80% favorite in the BIG10 title game, that game plus the OSU win probability yields the 3.2% Win Out probability shown on the FPI page.

J. Redux

September 13th, 2022 at 12:34 AM ^

There are two assumptions being made here:

(a) the FPI model produces useful results
(b) football games can be modeled as independent trials.

(a) can actually be checked pretty easily:

There are two simple checks you can do.  The first is to count the number of times the favorites win and compare them to the number of times they're expected to win.  Within the scope of a single weekend, (b) should apply almost perfectly.  There's no logical reason to believe that the Michigan / Hawaii result is dependent, in any way, on Utah / Southern Utah.  Therefore, you can calculate the expected number of wins by the favorites by simple addition -- a 90% favorite contributes 0.9 wins, a 51% favorite contributes 0.51 wins, etc.  Add them up and compare to the actual number of favorites who won.  (KenPom does exactly this, BTW, on his page).

The second check assumes (b) applies to some extent over time, but I think it's a fairly reasonable place to start.  Break the percentages down into buckets -- 0-5%, 6-15%, .. .96-100%.  That's 11 buckets (these choices are arbtirary; pick your own). For each game, look at the win probability of each team, and then assign a result into the appropriate bucket.  i.e., Michigan was a 99.7% FPI favorite against Hawaii, so put a W into the 96-100% bucket and an L into the 0-5% bucket.  (Then, realize that these will necessarily be symmetrical and you can ignore all of the buckets less than 50%).

Anyway, add them all up, and you should find that the winning percentage in the 96-100% bucket is about 98%; in the 86-95%, it's about 90%; the 76-85% is about 80%, etc.  That is, when you get to 100 total events in the 76-85% bucket, you should expect there to be approximately 80 wins and 20 losses.

I believe the appropriate significance test afterwards is a χ2 analysis, but it's been a while -- and anyway, we're just looking for broad strokes here.  You should be able to eyeball it and get an idea for whether or not the algorithm works.

As for (b), that's a little trickier, because games are correlated.  For example, if Michigan loses to Rutgers, they are more likely to lose to MSU, because losing to Rutgers presumably means that all of their quarterbacks' arms fell off or something.  Models like FPI deal with this by adjusting probability as new data comes in, but that's not helpful for this analysis.

You could probably reverse-engineer a correlation coefficient, which would allow you to correct the probability calculation.  A high correlation tends to move the distribution toward the extremes.  In the trivial case, where games are completely correlated, then the only possible records for the remainder of the season would be 0-10 or 10-0.

All that said, your example is entirely incorrect.  Your election model makes no sense; if FPI is working properly, about 20% of teams that are 4-1 underdogs via FPI should win.

Any issue here is with the accuracy of the FPI projections, not the probability math based on them.

NittanyFan

September 12th, 2022 at 8:05 PM ^

Agree 100%.  "Iowa magic" is not a thing.  "Iowa magic" is simply a meme that people parrot without thinking it through fully.

For instance:

  • Wisconsin played at Kinnick 5 times from 2010 to 2018 --- including in 2016, the year Michigan lost there.  Wisconsin won every single one of those games.  Those were your typical Iowa outfits, which finished 8-5, 8-5, 7-6, 8-5 and 9-4.  It wasn't like Wisconsin was getting some unusually weak version of Iowa.
  • PSU played at Kinnick 3 times in the 2010s (add 2012 to your aforementioned 2017 and 2019).  They went 3-0.  All 3 games were at night.
  • MSU also had a winning record at Kinnick in the 2010s (2-1).
  • For that matter, Central Michigan, NIU and North Dakota State won games there too in the 2010s.

*** Iowa did beat both Wisconsin & MSU at Kinnick in 2020 --- in front of crowds of 1500 in the COVID days.  I admittedly excluded those games from above in saying "the 2010s."  Maybe NOT waving at those kids triggers this mysterious "Iowa magic" the others speak of???  I don't know.    

*** Iowa did also beat PSU at Kinnick post-2010s (2021).  Iowa was also down by 2 scores in that game: then PSU lost their QB and then didn't score a touchdown after.  PSU wasn't particularly good last year regardless.  Iowa's win was more that than any "Iowa magic."

NittanyFan

September 13th, 2022 at 1:23 PM ^

No.

  • In their last 4 games at Kinnick (2012-2021 time frame), PSU is 3-0 at night and 0-1 in the afternoon. 
  • Wisconsin was 5-0 at Kinnick in the 2010s, including 1-0 at night. 
  • Ohio State is 2-2 in their last 4 games at Kinnick (2004-2021 time frame, they don't seem to visit that often): 1-0 at night (2006) and 1-2 during the afternoon (losses in '04 and '17).

Seriously --- this meme simply doesn't stand up to scrutiny. 

Folks here take ONE data point (U-M losing at Iowa in 2016, which - if Michigan just gets one first down after that Stribling interception with 2:00 left - they win and nobody really talks about that game) and makes a full meme out of it.  There is no voodoo.

L'Carpetron Do…

September 12th, 2022 at 6:35 PM ^

True, but the time for that game is still TBD. It's v possible Iowa could be 2-2 (or worse) going into that game and I if it's looking like a potential blowout, I could see the networks discouraging Iowa from making it a night game. Iowa just flat out cannot move the ball and I don't see how that changes in 2 weeks, especially against a good Michigan defense. 

(I'm going to this game and praying for a noon or 3:30 kickoff so I can get home at a tolerable hour). 

BTB grad

September 12th, 2022 at 5:41 PM ^

The discrepancy between B1G & CFP odds makes sense. If we went 11-1 with our only loss a close competitive game to OSU at the Horseshoe, I could see us getting in. It’s not far fetched to see the the ACC, PAC 12, and Big 12 conferences whiff on getting a team into the CFP like last year. Bama could drop a game in the regular season and lose to UGA in the SEC title game to get knocked out of CFP contention.

steviebrownfor…

September 12th, 2022 at 6:39 PM ^

That is true, however Michigan may actually benefit from the same (often deserved) bias that puts Alabama in the playoffs every year.  In other words, thisismichiganfergodsakes.  We made the playoff last year and would be looking at a 23-3 record in our last 26 games 

If there isn't a fourth team (e.g., Clemson) that is *demanding* a playoff spot, Michigan could get in by default.

NittanyFan

September 12th, 2022 at 7:44 PM ^

The "best historical analogy" to a 11-1 U-M with a loss to B1G Champ Ohio State ........... it's not 2021 Georgia.  It's 2015 Ohio State.

There are/would be A LOT of similarities between the resumes:

  • 3 OOC cupcakes, with a historically bad version of Hawaii being on both schedules.
  • Ohio State did have an additional OOC win --- and a decent one at Virginia Tech ----- but VT disappointed and only had a 6-6 regular season.
  • Didn't play in the B1G title game.
  • Wound up with a rather weak draw from the West --- didn't play the best teams from there and thus no opportunity for another nice win (this assumes NW, Nebraska & Iowa in 2022 are average or below - e.g., early returns continue for those 3 teams).
  • Ohio State's best win was Michigan, who finished the regular season 9-3.  Theoretically analogous to U-M's best win being vs a 9-3/10-2 MSU and/or PSU.
  • Ohio State was widely viewed as a very talented team, and got the "benefit of the doubt" from both that and being a playoff team (playoff winner!) the prior year.

That got OSU a #7 ranking in the final rankings.  Behind 11-1 Oklahoma, 12-1 Iowa, and even behind an 11-2 Stanford (!!!).

U-M could get in at 11-1 with a loss to B1G Champ Ohio State.  There could be significant barriers though: it probably won't be a favorable comp versus other 1-loss or even 2-loss teams. 

I'm not trying to be a dick here in saying all this ---- but there IS a historical analogy here.  For various reasons, U-M particularly needs to win the East this year for their playoff chances.

oriental andrew

September 12th, 2022 at 8:39 PM ^

2017 Alabama would be a surprisingly good comp. 

Crap non conference schedule (FSU was ranked 3 at the time, but fell off a cliff and finished 7-6). Weak conference schedule, only playing 3 teams that finished with more than 7 wins. Lost the iron bowl in the season finale and locked out of the SEC CG, but still make the CFP. 

Yes, it's the Alabama factor, but it could play out very similarly of Michigan lost to only OSU at the end of the season. 

NittanyFan

September 12th, 2022 at 9:05 PM ^

Yes, 2017 Alabama is a good comp too!

Other similarities between 2015 OSU and 2017 Alabama:

  • Both were ranked outside the Top 4 going into Championship Week (#6 and #5 respectively).
  • In the final rankings, both were passed by someone behind them (Stanford and UGA respectively, though UGA effectively just swapped with Auburn).  Highlighting the vulnerability of a team that isn't playing that week.
  • Net net: both would need help that weekend to get to the Final 4 --- in OSU's case, multiple pieces of help.

Alabama got 100% of their help (namely OSU over Wisky in Indianapolis), OSU got 0% of theirs. 

Call it a 50-50 shot then, based on 2 data points.  :-)

Maizinator

September 12th, 2022 at 7:47 PM ^

Here is the version before game 1...
https://www.on3.com/teams/michigan-wolverines/news/michigan-football-fpi-outlook-projected-record-week-1/


Sept. 3 vs. Colorado State: 97.6% chance of victory

Sept. 10 vs. Hawaii (0-1): 99.4% chance of victory

Sept. 17 vs. UConn (0-1): 99% chance of victory

Sept. 24 vs. Maryland: 82.6% chance of victory

Oct. 1 at Iowa: 70% chance of victory

Oct. 8 at Indiana: 85.9% chance of victory

Oct. 15 vs. Penn State: 66.9% chance of victory

Oct. 29 vs. Michigan State: 69.5% chance of victory

Nov. 5 at Rutgers: 88.6% chance of victory

Nov. 12 vs. Nebraska (0-1, 0-1 B1G): 84.2% chance of victory

Nov. 19 vs. Illinois (1-0): 88.4% chance of victory

Nov. 26 at Ohio State: 15.2% chance of victory

Fishbulb

September 12th, 2022 at 6:31 PM ^

Iowa should be that high.  They are a joke and are likely to give Old Man and Sloth Ferentz lifetime extensions for Iowaing to new levels.  Here's some Iowa BS for you--WR/KR Charlie Jones transferred from Iowa to Purdue.  He had 21 catches for Iowa last year.  He has 21 catches so far this year...in 2 games.  I get the "one is Iowa with Petras; the other is Purdue with a non-Petras" argument, but we are talking 13 games vs 2 games.  How did that exit interview with Iowa go?  "Son, you just have too much skill and offensive potential, and that's now how we do things here."  

Jeff09

September 12th, 2022 at 7:31 PM ^

Interesting 

if I’m doing this right their model thinks OSU is approximately as much better than Michigan as Michigan is better than Maryland? Roughly?

UMForLife

September 12th, 2022 at 9:22 PM ^

Isn't big part of this love for OSU coming down to their first game and the projected quality win against ND? 

OSU/UM is a 55/45 game in my book. Slight edge to OSU because they are at home, I mean toilet. 

CaliforniaNobody

September 12th, 2022 at 11:29 PM ^

Iowa is in the worst spot talent wise for us. They're not good overall, but with a defense that can keep the score low then some bad luck fuckery could swing the whole game. Win and get no credit, lose and get flamed.