Trey Burke has DMo's phone number
I remember last year, after Darius decided to leave Michigan for a shot at an NBA career, many of us made negative comments about his decision. Even though others of us supported his decision (even if when standing in his shoes, we may not have made the same decision), the negativity of the many can still show through.
I remember reading a DMo quote last year in reference to the negative feedback he received from fans. I don't have a link from last year, but I remember our then incoming point guard, Trey Burke, seeking out DMo for advice in regards to playing the point-guard position at Michigan. DMo (in so many words) told him to be careful, because the fans at Michigan are fickle and will turn on a player in a heartbeat. I agree. As a fanbase, we can be very fickle. In fact most or all fanbases are.
Fast forward a year, and Trey Burke is now considering the nba draft and once again is seeking out DMO's opinions. I admittedly have not lately kept up on the comments here in re Burke, but a quick scan of many of them show that most of us are calm as he "tests the water." Will we remain calm if he decides to leave? I hope so, but I fear--based on the aftermath of DMo's decision--we may not.
We obviously want Burke back, because we want Michigan to continue to do well and to experience more success. Despite our wishes though, he is trying to make a life/career decision. Whatever that decision may be, we only hurt our reputation (as Michigan fans) if we don't unconditionally support Burke. He's part of the Michigan family, and he therefore deserves our support for the hard work he has put in to help make us champions once again in basketball. Burke, like DMo, has raised the bar at Michigan, making it better than when he first found it.
Here's what Burke recently heard from DMo:
1) in re nba evaluations, "get honest opinions . . . It's exciting, but at the same time, it's a very delicate process because a lot of thoughts are going through your head and you want to gather the best information you can to make a very important decision."
2) in re disclosing his decision, "keep it (to himself) because outsiders will have their opinions. They'll say he's selfish, but you can't fault him for trying to see where he stands."
3) in re success at the nba draft, "there's a lot of politics in the NBA [draft] . . . It's totally unpredictable."
and
4) in re to his own decision last year, "I have no regrets — none at all. I did all I wanted to do at U-M, which was to rebuild the program and put it on the right foot and leave things better than when I got there."
These are most (but not of all) of the quotes from todays article in the Detroit News (http://www.detroitnews.com/article/20120324/SPORTS0201/203240321/1131/sports0201/Darius-Morris-advising-Michigan-guard-Trey-Burke-NBA-decision )
We may not agree with Burke's ultimate decision, but we can still choose to be a fanbase classier than most/all of the rest. Staying positive under these circumstances isn't easy. We naturally worry about the short-term situation, but Beilein has the long-term situation taken care of. I have no doubt that he will continue to grow the point-guard legacy at Michigan no matter what Burke decides. No one player is greater than the team, and no one team is greater than the program. We got this.
GO BLUE.
I find it hard to keep my emotions in check in regards to situations like this, but ultimately, like you said, no one person is greater than the team. If he chooses to go, I will embrace that decision, and look forward to what JB does.
The team, the team, the team!
March 24th, 2012 at 10:35 AM ^
"Those who stay will be champions."
Fickle? We're not fickle. Just ask Smotz.
Most players who leave early, don't get drafted as high as they wanted, and then don't get the playing time they did in college, blame "politics." That is just human nature. Competitive people don't want to admit that they overestimated their own ability and left school too early.
Morris should be telling Burke, "stay in school unless you are a guaranteed upper first round pick." Remember that the later a team picks, the more likely they are to not really need anyone to start, the easier it is to get "lost in the shuffle," and the harder it is to get meaningful minutes on the floor. Kids drafted by teams in the lower half of the draft usually don't play a lot as rookies.
I agree that he needs an honest evaluation, though. The best-case scenario for all concerned is for Burke to take his assessment back to John Beilein, come back to Michigan, and for the coaches to help him work on the weaknesses. This will improve his chances for success, both at Michigan and in the NBA.
Most players draft status is not going to change based on college performance, since the NBA drafts on potential.
Burke is unlikely to ever be a "guaranteed upper first round pick", so what should he do? Stay in school to get a degree? Maybe,it's nice to have a Plan B... but if he's determined to be an NBA player there's a strong case to be made for going all-out and not wasting time with school.
Honest evaluation - yes, he needs that. He needs to find out if scouts think he is likely to be an NBA player and how likely he is to need that Plan B. But being a 1st rounder doesn't make or break the decision. Manny Harris and Darius Morris are probably both better off than they would have been if they stayed at Michigan. They've earned enough money to cover the cost of going back to school if a degree helps them later on. Meanwhile they've focused full time on basketball, with professional trainers and coaches, at a higher level of competition -- they're almost certainly better basketball players for having left Michigan early.
If you're determined to be a professional basketball player, college ball is only a small stepping stone with limited utitlity. Staying for 4 years is the equivalent of a baseball player staying in Single A, and doing so BY CHOICE. Maybe some need that, but most whose long term future is in the major league are better off advancing.
I would argue that the NBA only drafts on potential these days because once they did it a few times, everyone started leaving college early before they were actually ready, and all the teams had to go on was potential. They don't want to miss on a guy with tons of potential to be an allstar in 3 or 4 years for a guy who's very good and experienced now (i.e. college graduate), because the NBA is based entirely on individual talent. There's not many (if any) teams like the Pistons of the 2000s that are very successful because of a team mentality.
I also think the coaching in the NBA is wildly overrated. I can't count the times I've laughed at the screen after hearing announcers rave about how great Doc Rivers and Mike Brown are as coaches only to hear a mic'd up time out or half time where they're basically saying "shoot the ball" and "play defense." I think any development that occurs once a player is in the NBA is not because the coaching is so much better, but rather that the players have so much more time to devote to their game. The ones who are willing to put in the time fulfill their potential (Kobe, Lebron, ROSE[best example]), while the other ones become middle of the road guys.
Full disclosure: I hate what the NBA has morphed into since the days of Jordan and Malone and Isaiah.
Chicken or egg, I suppose, but I'd argue that people started coming out early because the NBA drafted on potential anyway. The substantial risk that exists for each pick is largely irrelevant because the primary competitive advantage in the NBA is getting elite talent (even the Pistons had two former top 5 picks). It's a tragedy of the commons to some extent - NBA teams would all be better off if they'd draft on production and devalue risk/uncertainty, but no smart team is going to pass on a potential franchise-caliber talent.
As for NBA coaching being overrated...I think you're right about head coaches, but remember that they're dealing primarily with veteran players and their job is managing personalities as much as strategy (which the NBA doesn't have much of anyway). In terms of player development, the head coach doesn't matter as much as the assistants. Teams like Dallas can have coaches dedicated to developing individual players. Contrast with a busy NCAA coach who must balance recruiting, instituational responsibilities, fund-raising, etc. Said coach has to lean on student managers and volunteer assistants just to get by and has to limit everything within strict NCAA guidelines.
Time may be the primary benefit, but having professional coaches and trainers breaking down your game and telling you what to focus on, what work-outs are most beneficial, what diet is optimal...etc. That's going to help too.
improved significantly by staying in school another year.
His usage went up, but his FG% (compared to career) went down. His assists went down, his turnovers went up, his steals went down, his blocks went down. His shot seemed to improve (better FT% and 3%), but would it not have
I realize there are presumptive reporters out there asserting his stock is rising, but do NBA scouts think this? - if they do are they really going to take him higher than they would have a year ago? Perhaps, proving you have outside range is a big deal for the NBA. However, Draymond is still projected as a borderline first rounder. Will he go any higher this year than last given that the draft is deeper? Would the presumed leap make him more likely to have a better pro career?
There are definitely players who beneift from coming back, but most people destined to play professional basketball probably do not.
In my lawyer's lizard-brain, I understand that young elite athletes are going to jump to professional leagues. And that colleges, in their attempt to attract the best elite athletes, are naturally going to recruit a fair number of extravagantly-talented professional-league prospects. And, that it is very difficult under widely-accepted legal and commercial principles to prevent NCAA student-athletes' early jumping to professional leagues.
Personally, I'd rather have a basketball team of five Aaron Crafts, than five Darius Morrises.
March 24th, 2012 at 10:46 AM ^
Who would play the 5?
Aaron Craft
who would inbound the ball after their sophomore year?
By the way, slighlty Off Topic anywhere else but curiously appropriate to this thread; Joe Queenan wrote a column for the Wall Street Journal in which he derided college basketball in favor of the NBA:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702304692804577281431793114896.html
I didn't see that column when it was published earlier this week in my hard-copy edition of the Journal; only in reading angry letters to the WSJ editors (lol) did I find out about it.
It is delightfully punchy, and I disagree with every syllable that Queenan wrote. If I had to spend the rest of my life watching either college basketball or NBA basketball I would instantly and unhesitatingly choose college basketball. I don't even want to bother to argue with Joe Queenan because I think that he and I probably come from different planets, and our disputes would only harm the rest of the solar system. To me, the NBA has all of the emotional allure of commodities trading.
Wait! You mean a fanbase might react angrily when a good player leaves their program before anyone expected him to? And that a fanbase might express their anger on a message board??? Holy @&%^! What has the world come to?
Don't fool yourself OP. We ARE classier than most/all the other fanbases. Your expectation is this matter is unrealistic. DMo thinks we turned on him because we were disappointed with his decision. Well, we were. And we were RIGHT.
Michigan's fanbase isn't "fickle," nor does it "turn on" anyone without good reason. It comes down, once again, to the pride of any elite athlete. Most of them think that anyone who disagrees with their assessment of their own talents is "wrong."
In DMo's case, he apparently thinks that the fanbase "turned on him" for saying he should have stayed in school. While I admire his pluck, he might want to decide not to take opposing opinions as to his professional potential so personally.
The bottom line is that he should have stayed another year and improved his chances in the draft. He would be an upper first-rounder this year and probably catch on with a team in need of solid minutes from a PG.
If DMo had stayed, he probably would have made more money from being higher on the "food chain." If I was him, I wouldn't want to admit that, either.
school and don't let their teammates down by jumping ship and leaving them without a point guard, QB or goalie. Support works both ways. It is their life and their right to make the decision that they feel is best for them, but that doesn't mean that we have to agree with it or support it.
but how you say it. In DMo's situation, only he knows how things were said to him after his decision.
March 24th, 2012 at 10:03 AM ^
I think every fanbase, of any team, can be fickle. If an inidividual on a team does what may be best for the indvidual, but not what's best for the fanbase there are always going to be people who quickly change their opinion of said player. I think it's just part of being a fan, especially a fan of college teams.
- Not be as good at basketball.
- Have less money.
- Probably have been drafted lower.
- Delayed his dream
So, how exactly was it a mistake?
He would not be as good at basketball because of level of competition, time, and coaching.
He would have less money because the NCAA doesn't pay people (though significant benefits are granted, obviously.) while the NBA is paying him half a million dollars this year, not to mention whatever supplemental earnings he might get just for being an LA Laker.
He would have been drafted lower because a) this is a much deeper draft than last year, b) he would have been a year older (less potential in the eyes of NBA), and maybe c) Burke would have cut into his playing time and productivity - he might even have been benched, since Burke seems to be the better college player.
This is an LA kid, playing for the Lakers. He is living his dream. While I'm sure he'd rather be an all-star, going back to Michigan wasn't going to change that. He's getting paid to be a professional basketball player, just like he wanted to, and is doing everything he can to be better in his profession. I don't see a problem.
You realize he had 2 years of college eligibility left and he is not on an NBA roster, right? I am guessing leaving college early without winning much to not be in the NBA is quite far from Morris living his dream.
Morris is on the Laker roster right now. He just played against Dallas on Wednesday.
Morris was reassigned to the Los Angeles D-Fenders of the NBA D-League. He went down for a game or two (or was it a week or two?), scored 21 one night, and then came back up to the Lakers.
We should all realize; Darius Morris is an extraordinarily lucky NBA rookie; his hometown team drafted him. If he and his parents are all deliriously happy with how things have turned out, I wouldn't blame them. But if he were living alone in a place like Oklahoma City, bouncing back and forth between the NBA and a D-league team, would that be the case? Maybe. But in any case, Darius Morris' good fortune is exceptional.
I don't know if his good fortune is exceptional. Yes, they did call him back up. They traded away an aging point guard, the guy Morris was supposed to take over for, for their point guard of the future. Getting no guaranteed money and sitting behind a young rising point guard is not the best situation.
Sessions is the PG of the present, not the future. He's an upgrade over Fisher, but his flaws and weaknesses are well known. He doesn't have enough upside to be given PG-of-the-future classification. The Lakers will certainly try to find a better one while keeping their eyes on Morris' development.
Have to acknowledge the fact that being a Laker is different than being on the Grizzlies, Blazers, or TWolves.
Does not play, in the last 3 games he has 2 minutes of playing time and it was at the very end of a game. Sessions and Blake play.
I dont know why or how anyone would pretend that Morris didnt make a poor decision. Sitting on a bench and watching average at best players play every available minute ahead of you is not a recipe for improving.
Last year, Morris played about 20 hours of basketball for Michigan, this year he's played about 3 hours of basketball. Yeah, he plays less in games (though he would have anyway, with Burke cutting into his minutes), but that's a small fraction of his time.
You're telling me that practicing with Kobe Bryant, Derek Fisher, and all the other Lakers has no value? That sitting through the huddles and games besides the worlds best has no instructive value?
Its hard for me to see how going to class and scrimmiging against Carlon Bundridge-level talent is better than what he does on a day-to-day basis now.
1. You're thinking of head coaches only - not all the assistants, trainers, and other staff that tend to have much longer longevity. I agree that head coaches have relatively little affect on player development other than potentially being motivational. Anyway that's a quibble - the point is he is better than he would be if he stayed. If nothing else, because he has more time and playing tougher competition.
2. This is not a good year to go pro relative to last year or next year because of the depth. Of the 6 non-freshman in the top 10, Robinson is the only one that significantly improved his draft position by returning to school. All of those guys risked injury and sacrified a year of earnings with little in return (Zeller will at least graduate - there might be others, but most won't graduate anyway).
It's strange that you're arguing the seniors getting drafted at the end of the 1st round and 2nd round 'improved their stock' when freshman and sophomores are going higher than them.
Finally, Morris isn't any worse off for not getting drafted in the first round. We can argue the various benefits of one franchise over the other, but I'm betting Darius is pretty glad to be a Laker. Yes, he would have more money if he was selected in the lottery, but that was very unlikely to happen this year anyway. If you're being at all realistic, you'll admit his situation couldn't be much better than it is.
NBA teams actually have a position called 'player development coach'. They also sometimes assign one-on-one coaches to specific players to hone their game. On top of that, they'll send players to various clinics, academies, training sessions with experts like David Thorpe, Pete Newell, Mark Price, etc.
I understand you want to be cynical and assume that everyone is just out for themsevles, but there are plenty of people in these organizations (and out) who are tasked specifically with player development, because individual interest and long-term team interest are connected, even with free-agency. NBA teams make significant investments in rookies (not just ones with 1st round/lotto contracts) and they want their guys to develop quickly so that they can have a bargain, even if for a short duration - just like college coaches, but without NCAA restrictions.
Contracts for 1st round picks are for 2 years - that's not much security. Darius signed a 1 year deal. I'm sure he'll sign another. Nothing was lost.
You get better primarily through practice. Games matter more per minute of course, but the sheer volume of time spent practicing vs time spent playing makes practice more important. Ray Allen doesn't just show up and shoot 40% from 3, he practices shooting every day. Plus Darius has summer league, NBDL , and many other opportunities to PLAY against competition that is better than he'd see in a college game.
I don't know what Burke should do. I don't think he's an NBA caliber player. But if he's determined to be a pro basketball player and doesn't want to consider Plan B, then he's probably better off going now. If he's just going to go pro a year from now, I don't see much benefit to coming back. In the end, being selected in the late 1st round or going undrafted isn't going to make an enormous difference. Most first rounders outside of the lottery flame out fast while some undrafted players go on to successful careers, if not in the NBA then Europe. It is obvious that draft position does not determine fate. It doesn't change who you are or how good you'll become. It's just a matter of where you slot in at your entry level job - 5 years later it doesn't make a difference.
I don't assume players get drafted higher if they had come out as freshmen. I assume that players get drafted roughly where they get drafted, according to their long-term NBA ability. Some are going to move up as they improve their games, others are going to move down as their limitations but in the end, the NBA is drafting primarily for your potential. Younger players generally have more potential and more risk, but NBA teams care much more about the former.
The analogy I keep going back to is baseball. Prospects can stay in Single A for a few years and produce or they can jump up to AA or AAA or even the pros. College basketball is Single A ball. For some people it's going to be a detriment to stay there for 4 years, when they should be elevating their level of competition - even if they aren't yet all-stars in that league. But in general, for most prospects, either they need to move up after a couple years or they're probably not going to make it to the big leagues.
The important point here is that where you're drafted (again, outside of the lottery) doesn't really matter when you consider all the other elements (class vs practice, injury risk, lost income, etc.) Burke, like Harris, was/is never going to be a lotto player and (probably) neither was Morris. The only reason to stick around in college after you've been successful is to push yourself into the lotto, where contracts get tangibly richer. THEN, you can justify a years less worth of earnings and compromising your development (not the case for everyone - against the single A analogy - but for most.)
March 24th, 2012 at 11:00 PM ^
Exactly. He is probably wishing he went somewhere else where fans don't freak out and vent on message boards, like OHIO.
March 24th, 2012 at 11:09 AM ^
1) no, you are not right to rip on a player. the guy took no tattoos and no booster cash. so get off his back.
2) a player at UM does not owe you sh!t. Stop feeling vindicated when an athlete struggles in the league. HE decided that it was time for him to start making money. Respect it.
Guys who stay all 4 years are beloved. But guys who go and get that money are NOT villains.
seriously: d-mo lived his entire life in Los Angeles. Played all his ball there. Spent 2 years in Ann Arbor. Now he's back and he's a LAKER. And you guys think he's disappointed.
Okay.
3) counter argument to class: boosters' treatment of RR. don't kid yourself. our fans are great, but we aren't exactly nebraska.
Are Nebraska's fans known for being especially supportive?? Please explain, I don't get it.
put it this way - ricky williams got a standing ovation after he and texas ran nebraska off their own field in the late 90's. husker fans chanted "heisman, hesiman" out of respect
nebraska fans are top 3 in class
He should have said fans are fickle. It's all fans of sports, that's the reason they get paid millions of dollars in the pros because the fans are so passionate. If a player makes a decision or an action that they as fans feels hurts the team you can believe they will turn on them in a heartbeat.
Lebron james anyone and to a lesser extent Earnest Byner.
March 24th, 2012 at 11:01 AM ^
i don't think any sane fan would contact a player with nasty comments.
People do dumb stuff tho, i'm sure no aurburn fans thought there was a crazy enough bamer to poison their trees either.
playing in a final four (and maybe more). He will still make great NBA money.
Great Article! Very well presented and well thought out, but let us not forget that Trey Burke is an adult and he will make the decision based on his personal situation - family and friends and career - and we as Fans should in NO WAY complain about what he may do. Speculation may sell a few reads, but reality always trumps hope.
Did you want fries with that?