Tom Brady's first collegiate pass - a perspective on young players
A lot of the (I would assume) younger fans are being fooled by our rash of freshman and redshirt freshman impact players the last couple of years. It wasn't so long ago that even redshirt sophmores seemed too inexperienced to be out on the field. I was at school when Tom Brady was third string behind Griese and Driesbach and I distinctly remember his first pass. He threw an interception and my friends and all all thought, "who is this California pretty boy and why the hell are we playing him?" We know a lot more about these kids because of the internet coverage of recruiting, and I think kids are being better coached in HS than they used be, but I still don't like to see these young guys out there( I understand that right now we don't have much of a choice). We need to get back to the days when a future All Big Ten player waits patiently 2 years for the current All Big Ten player to graduate and then steps in. I hope these rash of transfers aren't a glimps into a future where all kids expect to be playing as true freshman, and fans are clammoring for the new flavor of the month recruit every year.
September 24th, 2010 at 10:58 AM ^
As the seasons progress, we will have enough depth for guys to have to wait until their sophomore or junior years to play regularly or even start. However, you are still going to have freshmen come in and contribute right away. Every program has an area or position where a freshman or redshirt freshman is their best player. That is just part of the game. I agree with you to a certain extent, but it will always be like this.
September 24th, 2010 at 11:02 AM ^
Players have access to a lot of info and most don't have the patience to wait and develop anymore. The days of a QB risking being buried on a depth chart at a major school when he could start at a FCS or lower FBS school are gone. DG is an anomaly at this point, and the Threets and Malletts are a lot more common in this era.
September 24th, 2010 at 11:05 AM ^
I think Threet and Mallet are bad examples as neither transfered for fear of having to wait 2 years to start, but I see your point. Crist at ND and the Carson to Leinart to Sanchez transition show that it can still happen, though.
September 24th, 2010 at 3:06 PM ^
Meh...
Not sure if I agree with you there. Threet transferred to UofM in the first place because it was UofM. He knew Mallett would be there and he would either not play or have to compete his tail off to get time. If what you say is true, then why are Oklahmoa, Texas, Florida starting non-freshman after their QBs moved on to the NFL?
I agree that there is less incentive to sit for three years at a "big-name" school because of the publicity some of the "lesser" schools get nowadays. However, the mentality has changed at those "big-name" schools allowing young players to play earlier because coaches just want to put the best players on the field. Those two factors offset each other somewhat.
Ultimately, you will see the same "big names" in on the best quarterbacks coming out of HS every year no matter what. A kid going to a smaller or FCS school just so he can play NOW will remain the exception, not the rule.
September 24th, 2010 at 11:06 AM ^
do you chase kids off your lawn, too?
September 24th, 2010 at 11:12 AM ^
Depth is one thing, but if a player is good enough to start at an FBS program as a redshirt sophomore, chances are getting lower and lower that he's going to want to wait another year or two to get in some games. Too many schools and too much parity for there to be as many players "waiting in the wings" these days.
September 24th, 2010 at 11:19 AM ^
There are always going to be guys who are good enough to start early, I just think those are special guys who are the exception to the rule. There might be one or two guys a class who are really standing out at a position of need, but you don't see the top 10-15 teams in the country starting underclassmen at more than half of their positions,
September 24th, 2010 at 11:59 AM ^
Are you still of the opinion that Denard can't learn to read defenses and can't improve his accuracy?
September 24th, 2010 at 12:12 PM ^
If you are asking if I still think that Denard Robinson did not become a exceptional passer over this last summer, than yes, I still think that. He is a stud this year and is helping our team tremendously and should be starting. He is doing all of that because of his legs. HIs arm, coverage comprehension and accuracy have been good enough to beat teams when they forget that he has the option to run. He spent the first quarter against I-AA UMASS trying to prove he could drop back and throw. How did that turn out? I am only responding to a question and don't want to sound like I am bagging on the guy because I think he has been unbelievable and better than I expected, but I think it is because his running is so good that he doesn't need to be an exceptional passing QB, just an average one.
September 24th, 2010 at 12:21 PM ^
Teams "forget" Denard has the option to run? And people think our DC's have been incompetent.
He is doing all of that because of his legs. HIs arm, coverage comprehension and accuracy have been good enough to beat teams when they forget that he has the option to run.
September 24th, 2010 at 1:00 PM ^
Sorry, I meant to say pass, not run. Let me expand for clarity: I can't remember if it was UCONN or ND, but I remember a play where he tucked the ball under his arm, ran four steps to his left, the cornerback ran at him and he threw it to a wide open receiver. Maybe I am just a dumbass, but I would classify that as the CB reacting to multiple QB runs and 'forgetting' he could pass.
September 24th, 2010 at 1:39 PM ^
I don't get why people, including yourself, don't believe that Denard is a decent passer. He is in the top 20 in the nation in passer rating, and is in the top 20 in most statistics thus far. Besides the fact that he can also run, what does he have to do on passing plays to prove that he is a decent passer? Is it his decision making? Is it his reads of the defense? Accuracy? Arm strength? He is a true sophmore, and has shown, to me, as much poise as all american Henson did as a sophmore, and appears to be able to make better reads, decisions, and is better through his progressions.
The only thing that I can figure is the stereotype that mobile quarterbacks can't be good passers.
September 24th, 2010 at 2:03 PM ^
You can't make a better play than this. He waits in the pocket until just the right time (even as three defenders are charging at him), gets his feet set, and throws a beautiful ball.
Sadly, I think some people are unwilling or unable to get past their preconceived ideas about what a QB should look like.
September 24th, 2010 at 2:45 PM ^
I think some people are unwilling or unable to get past their preconceived ideas about what a QB should look like.
Which is why Rodriguez should be praised more for recognizing Denard as a starting QB. Instead, I mostly see MSM coverage in the vein of "Denard May Save Rich Rod's Job". If that's not turning reality upside down...
September 24th, 2010 at 5:01 PM ^
Come on. You are honestly claiming that Denard is a better passer than Drew Henson (even at the same age)? And, "better through his progressions?" Really? I have seen him go to his SECOND receiver maybe twice all year and I have yet to see him make it to a third. He is an unbelievable running QB and a good enough passing QB to be one of the most exciting overall QBs in the country this year. If it makes you feel better to think that he is one of the top 20 passing QBs in the country, too, then fine. I would add some more random 'facts' that are baseless and incorrect, though. Try, "he throws a tighter spiral than Drew Brees at the same age, with a revolutions per minute rate that makes him very accurate."
September 24th, 2010 at 5:19 PM ^
I said nothing about Drew Henson, but since you mentioned it, here are Henson's sophomore-year (1999) stats:
Passing: 47-90 (52.2%), 546 yards (6.1 YPA), 3 TD, 2 INT
Rushing: 27 att., -14 yds. (-.0.5 avg), TD
Denard has vastly surpassed what Henson did then. Yes, Henson was playing in Mike DeBord's Paleozoic offense, but these numbers weren't good for even a Lloyd Carr QB. I can say without hesitation that Denard is a much better player right now than Henson was in 1999.
Why are you so quick to discount what Denard has done? Is it impossible to imagine that he's worked really hard and become an excellent player?
September 24th, 2010 at 8:57 PM ^
September 25th, 2010 at 7:09 AM ^
What you are implying without saying is that you think I think Tate is a better passer because he is white and that I don't think Denard can pass because he is black. That is totally BS. I think Scott Frost and Eric Crouch were good QBs for Nebraska, with the latter being a Heisman winner, and I think they both were mediocre passers, as well. These arguments that Denard is a better passer that Henson or Brady are crazy. And the statistical extrapolations you are making remind me of a TA I had once who argued that if you look at the rate of increase in women's track and field records in the last 30 years then you can prove that by 2020 they will be better than men in all categories
Oh. And tell your MSU friend that he is a real deal QB...in this offense. I questioned whether he would be able to pass well enough to keep people from leaving extra guys in the box to stop his running. I was wrong because his passing has been adequate and his running is so good that it doesn't matter if they do leave guys in the box. If you put him in LC's offense he would be a poor fit and would have terrible passing numbers. If you put Brady in this offense, he would be a poor fit and would look like Threet. He is in this offense, though, so stop trying to prove he has an NFL caliber arm (Which he doesn't), and just enjoy how great he is right now, right here.
September 25th, 2010 at 8:21 AM ^
is that Tate relies more on his arm than his legs, so with these passing numbers, you would be ok with his passing, but way to go to race there buddy.
The extrapolation comparison you pose is rediculous, cause the numbers Denard needs to put up the rest of the year to match Brady's senior numbers are not unreasonable numbers and are well below his current output, with the exception of touchdowns, which he needs to remain on pace.
And why did you bring the NFL into this? Denard is a sophomore in college at UofM and I compared him and his passing to other UofM QB's in college. He has made very few poor decisions when throwing, and has shown that he can be accurate, and put some touch on the ball. Can he improve, of course, but right now I'd say he is showing to be a good passer, without having to throw in any disclaimer of (for a running QB).
I'd say you take your last line's advice.
September 24th, 2010 at 11:23 AM ^
Not only was it intercepted, it was returned for a touchdown, taint if you will. I remember that game for the dude behind me who was so upset that they didn't get Brady in the game and then he came in and did that. Definitely chuckle worthy. Forward to about 8:40
September 24th, 2010 at 11:38 AM ^
Even with my crappy SD TV it's tough to watch this. It doesn't seem like that was 14 years ago.
Anyway, to be fair Brady looked like he was being hit on that throw, but good find. +1 to you sir.
September 24th, 2010 at 11:47 AM ^
Good find.
The Charles Woodson pick on the highlight before Brady's pick is fun to watch, he is a beast (obviously).
I love watching clips of older games because I really don't remember them because I was young. Sadly I was only 6 years old when they won the Championship in '97.
September 24th, 2010 at 11:55 AM ^
If you were only 6 in 97 I should explain that all of the white things in the endzone are marshmallows. Good times.
September 24th, 2010 at 12:31 PM ^
I remember hitting Corso with one in 97 when Colorado was in town when they had GameDay inside the concourse south of the stadium.
Tons of opportunities to hit refs and camera guys from the student section.
I think they sold in that the marshmallows would ruin the field turf and that's how they finally stopped it. It did look a little trashy, but was fun in the stands. Especially the marshmallow "fights" between students at halftime.
September 24th, 2010 at 1:16 PM ^
I sat in a pile of marshmallowy goo at the end of a game my freshman year. It was pretty gross, but just a minor inconvenience of an otherwise great tradition. I remember people discussing various theories about how to make the marshmallows easier to throw (open the package and let it sit out on the porch overnight) and when the cameramen had to put that protective bubble around themselves because the students kept bombing them. Good times. Definitely sad to see that tradition pass.
September 24th, 2010 at 2:00 PM ^
Watching Woodson on the reverse, when he re-reverses field and runs for daylight - I'd forgotten how good he was on offense as well.
Also, have they changed the shoulder pads a lot in 15 years? Do more guys wear thigh pads now? Maybe it's just me, but the players in these clips look top-heavier than players today.
September 24th, 2010 at 12:20 PM ^
aaaahh....the sweet days of running backs with balance and vision.
September 24th, 2010 at 1:43 PM ^
1996 was the good old days? Our run game that year (and by extension, our offense) stunk.
September 24th, 2010 at 11:41 AM ^
I like the internet contributes a little. Now we see highlight videos of the players when they were in HS. A lot of people want to see the players start making a bunch of crazy plays right away like they did, but most times they don't (e.g., McGuffie). Obviously they aren't going to be as good as they seem in these reels because, as we all know, it is a more stiff competition in college. Anyway, good luck to all the young guys on the team, starter or non-starter.
September 24th, 2010 at 12:13 PM ^
... Brady's first pass was at the V-Bell, and was dropped for no gain by a Tri-Delt.
He looked like this:
She now looks like this.
Gisele is glad (note F-1 street-legal stroller) .
September 24th, 2010 at 1:45 PM ^
We need to get back to the days when a future All Big Ten player waits patiently 2 years for the current All Big Ten player to graduate and then steps in.
You want to petition the NCAA to increase the scholarship limit? That's the bigger factor. Teams all over the country are playing young guys. That's how it is.
By the way, Brady was actually a redshirt freshman when he threw that pick 6 - and in fact, at one point that season he walked into Carr's office and told him he was transferring. The more things change...
September 24th, 2010 at 1:45 PM ^
When we're winning. If you don't get to play, AND you're losing, it's a hard sell to stick around.
September 24th, 2010 at 3:04 PM ^
Am I the only one who was hoping this thread was about the Brady look-a-like with the Lloyd Christmas bowl-cut?
Seriously, more threads about that guy. He's always so happy.
September 24th, 2010 at 7:59 PM ^
Young players are always going to make mistakes. It's the ones that rebound and forget about it as soon as it happens that get better and better.