Tim vs. Manny
The Lakers and Knicks are going at it right now on ABC. Hardaway has 18 points and Manny harris has 16 I believe. Mike Tirico really pumping in the Michigan love. It's really good to see Manny have some success. Hopefully he gets another contract from the Lakers!
January 26th, 2014 at 5:37 PM ^
Wow i didnt know Manny would actually get real playing time great for him. Hardaway really showing he deserves being a first round pick
January 26th, 2014 at 5:38 PM ^
Lakers are awful. They're pretty desperate.
He's had a good game, though.
January 26th, 2014 at 5:41 PM ^
The Lakers are intentionally awful. Expect to see them ship Gasol out before the deadline.
January 26th, 2014 at 6:00 PM ^
January 26th, 2014 at 11:24 PM ^
January 26th, 2014 at 6:13 PM ^
Steve Blake and Steve Nash are hurt. They played Harris because they had to.
January 26th, 2014 at 5:38 PM ^
A combined 31 points in a combined 32 minutes so far, split almost completely evenly. Pretty good showing!
January 26th, 2014 at 5:42 PM ^
January 26th, 2014 at 5:45 PM ^
January 26th, 2014 at 5:49 PM ^
I saw that on twitter but I wasn't sure if the person posting it was just slow on the initial contract. What are the odds he gets signed to a lengthy one?
January 26th, 2014 at 6:03 PM ^
January 26th, 2014 at 5:47 PM ^
with shouts of "Ann Arbor in the house!" The M men getting lots of coverage and highlight shots. Even Darius Morris got a mention. (Commentator correcting himself after saying Harris & Hardaway played together at Mich.)
January 26th, 2014 at 5:52 PM ^
Tim hit a shot and then Manny came right back down and hit a 3. Mike yelled "Hail to the Victors Valiant!" LOL!
January 26th, 2014 at 5:53 PM ^
January 26th, 2014 at 5:49 PM ^
They're showing the Michigan Difference. Go blue!
January 26th, 2014 at 6:02 PM ^
Final lines for each:
Hardaway - 18 points, 0 assists, 4 rebounds in 26 minutes
Harris - 18 points, 0 assists, 0 rebounds in 19 minutes
They both did very well in their time out there - Hardaway was 7-12 and 4-5 from three-point range. Harris was 6-9 and 2-3 from beyond the arc. Nice to see them getting substantial time.
January 26th, 2014 at 6:49 PM ^
Manny also had a nice block on Carmelo.
January 26th, 2014 at 7:08 PM ^
January 26th, 2014 at 7:20 PM ^
Manny showed pretty good propensity to pass the ball, but he doesn't have great teammates around him who can finish. His assist rate in 2008 under JB is 20.2% and 32.2% in 2009 which is good for 42nd in the country but fell 27.2% in 2010 (when you look at 2010 roster, you'd understand why). Considering the team around Manny, it's pretty amazing that he shared the ball even though it doesn't look like it at the time.
January 26th, 2014 at 6:08 PM ^
January 26th, 2014 at 6:13 PM ^
I fought the notion at first, but this year really is the shiznit so far. Now let's win that B1G title!
January 26th, 2014 at 6:17 PM ^
The Clippers did not resign Darius Morris after his 2nd 10-day contract. They had to either sign him for the rest of the season or let him go. Hopefully, another team gives him a shot.
More supporting evidence that you should not go pro unless you are a lock for the NBA 1st round or have your degree. I really think GR III, Stauskas, and McGary should come back for another year if they do not get a 1st round guarantee.
January 26th, 2014 at 6:19 PM ^
January 26th, 2014 at 6:23 PM ^
My memory is the same.
January 26th, 2014 at 6:31 PM ^
But he barely snuck into the 1st round in one of the worst drafts in last 10 years, and we also have no idea what kind of feedback he got from the NBA. For every Tim Hardaway, there are probably 25 other examples like Darius Morris or Manny Harris.
And Hardaway was a much more polished product than GR III and McGary so there may not have been as much room to improve his NBA stock.
January 26th, 2014 at 10:17 PM ^
Manny's mistake was leaving too late if anything he should have jumped after his sophomore year. Manny was also a polished product when he left just like Hardaway so your second paragraph applies equally to him. We don't know what feedback any of them got from the NBA so your first paragraph applies to all of them. McGary is dumb for staying it cost him a bunch of money. Morris has made something like 2.6 million in 3 years so another bad example. Sims makes around 500k per year overseas and if Morris did that for the next 10 years, that would be 7.6 million, which buys something like 38 U of M undergraduate degrees while 1 undergraduate degree buys exatly 0 years in the NBA and the value of a degree in the NBA is probably less than 0 really. Additionally, every year a player stays costs them money as they can work for 1 less year physically.
Staying also involves risk like flaming out of school, having character exposed, injuries, regression as a player, family going broke, having a young talent take your minutes, etc.
I had a hard time taking this post seriously though because of the Skip Bayless style of these last two posts of yours. "For every one success story there are 25 flameouts" is really not even close to the truth. I know this is not the most objective place though so grain of salt was taken.
Out of the 5 you list:
Mitch: Probably made worse by staying unless you think he will be a 22/23 year old lottery pick.
GR3: You say later in this thread he is dropping out of drafts and you wouldn't take him, thus you are conceeding he was better off if he left last year.
Morris: Got drafted and has made 2.6 million in 3 years so far. Maybe an argument here but I don't see it.
Manny: Staying an extra year probably cost him a bunch of money.
Tim: Went first round. Maybe could have been drafted higher.
January 26th, 2014 at 11:33 PM ^
January 27th, 2014 at 1:04 AM ^
That's possible I may be misunderstanding something fundaental. What are you thinking should be factored in? My understanding is that where you go in the draft, or if you go in the draft at all, matters because it determines how much you get paid. For example, a guy drafted 15th gets more money than a guy drafted 22nd. A first round player gets guaranteed money while a second round player does not. An undrafted guy gets no money, which is the worst outcome. After the initial 2/3 year contract, it will not matter where the person was drafted they will either be good enough to sign with someone or not. 15th or 22nd, 1st or second round, undrafted, none of that matters at that point.
I am also assuming it is all of the talented players' goal to play in the NBA, with Michigan being a step along that path. I feel pretty confident about this assumption.
If money was not the factor driving these decisions, then it wouldn't matter where you got drafted correct? Or even whether you got drafted at all? As long as you made a team you made a good decision to leave college if that was the case?
January 27th, 2014 at 6:15 AM ^
Manny was also a polished product when he left just like Hardaway so your second paragraph applies equally to him.
His perimeter game still needed work - he shot 30.8% from downtown his junior year. Granted, I don't know if a fourth year would have helped because he was never a consistent 3-point shooter here, but he always felt like a bit of a raw talent. http://statsheet.com/mcb/players/player/michigan/manny-harris
January 27th, 2014 at 12:18 PM ^
Yea I am using polished as an equivalent of finished and assuming that the 4th year wouldn't have helped considering, as the stats you link to demonstrate, he was consistent in his 3 point shooting the entire time he was here.
He coud have grown though conceivably. I remember feeling like Manny was doing alot of chucking his final year, at least moreso than he was the first two which still involved a good amount of chucking haha. The stats don't reflect that though as his shot% was the same all three years and attempts are similar (though his sophomore year he played 3 more games than junior). Point being if he was chucking or taking worse looks, then elimination of either or both could raise his outside shooting numbers, irrespective of whether his actual shooting got better, which also could have happened.
January 26th, 2014 at 6:29 PM ^
January 26th, 2014 at 6:29 PM ^
Based on GR3's play up until today, there is no way he is a lottery pick. I just don't see it. He has all the athleticism in the world but just can't show up on a consisten basis.
January 26th, 2014 at 6:37 PM ^
Lottery pick, no;
First rounder, yes. Some enterprising team will drool over his potential and snatch him up in the 1st round.
January 26th, 2014 at 6:59 PM ^
just don't see it man. I'm not saying you're wrong, but what exactly is it about GR3 that makes him 1st round material? I guess he's a good finisher, he is very athletic. But his game is just soo meh. Below avg shooter, below avg ball handler, plays good D at the 4 but I dont think he can guard an nba 3 man.
January 26th, 2014 at 7:16 PM ^
90% of 1st round picks are for athletic guys who have high ceilings.
Below average shooter? Wat?
January 26th, 2014 at 7:27 PM ^
A majority of players in the draft are athletic wings. I would agree with you if you were talking a center or a player with freakish size for his position. Robinson is a freak athlete but he has only average height for his position.
January 26th, 2014 at 7:38 PM ^
Considering that Michigan is gaining a reputation for developed, servicable rookies, and that GRIII's well known in the NBA scout circles for the tools he possesses...I'd be really surprised if he wasn't snapped up in the 1st round.
January 26th, 2014 at 7:51 PM ^
I seriously think Stauskas is the only one of the three that would get drafted in the 1st round right now if most of the freshman class stars declare for the NBA. The end of the 1st round is a perilous place to try to get drafted as some teams opt for foreign players they can stash in Europe and keep off the payroll until they develop.
January 26th, 2014 at 8:49 PM ^
You are correct in what you have said IMO. GRIII definitley should come back. No way he sticks with the tools he possesses right now. Matter of fact, im not seeing the improvement from him like i thought i wouild.
McGary and Stauskas definitely have the tools to stick in the league.
FWIW, i actually though Hardaway would be a better pro than a college player. He is doing pretty well for himself right now. Burke is doing well, with his only severe weakness being 2 pt shooting. He really needs to pick that up. WIth young talent getting more experience around him in Utah, and with a high draft pick they will get, he should get even more help.
January 27th, 2014 at 8:45 AM ^
I have nothing against the young man, but I just don't see why some people are so high on GRIII. When I think of a player with the talent and ability to leave college as a sophmore and make an impact in the NBA it's a player who dominates the college game. GRII has never shown that ability.
He is a decent shooter and that is about all I can say about him. He goes through very long stretches where he absolutely disapppears on the court and his stat lines are rarely impressive. I mean, if he could do even one thing exceptionally well I might agree that he could go in the first round, but he doesn't. He has athleticism to burn, but other than that he's just average in my books. No offense intended to him, that's just my opinion.
January 26th, 2014 at 7:22 PM ^
overseas isn't a bad option considering you make 6 figures. Manny, Darius reportedly got 1st round guarantee from certain teams but players falling unexpectedlly changes thing.
January 26th, 2014 at 7:40 PM ^
I think the coaches were taken by surprise by Morris leaving. I don't think I saw a mock draft that had either player sniffing the 1st round. There were a couple mock drafts that had Hardaway in the 1st.
But if your goal is the NBA, there is no better place to market your skills than in college as the scouting in Europe doesn't give much chance to get to the NBA. College isn't for everyone and have no issue with a kid deciding to leave early to take his game to Europe to make a living. But the kids we are talking about seem like ones who enjoy college, not in a desperate financial situation, and are not looking to go overseas at this time.
January 26th, 2014 at 7:45 PM ^
Manny was always a 2nd rounder, but
Morris mostly listed in the 1st round--as high as 20. He dropped below projections.
Timmy was low 1st-high 2nd right after the tourney, but was (low) 1st round on essentially all boards by draft day.
And regarding GRIII and his being projected mid-late 1st round--the NBA GMs aren't idiots and they often draft on potential rather than present production.
January 26th, 2014 at 8:18 PM ^
GR III has started to fall off some of the mock drafts of people who have connections with NBA GMs. Chad Ford of ESPN no longer lists him in the 1st round. Chris Mannix of SI doesn't have him in the top 20. DraftExpress has him falling to #26 right now. The 2014 draft has the potential to be very deep so it is possible for GR III to fall out of the 1st round depending on his play the rest of the season and draft workouts.
I don't remember seeing that with Morris. I remember some saying he had chance to rise depending on workouts but it seemed he was always projected in the 2nd. Morris may have actually optimized his draft position because the following year's draft (2012) was much stronger.
January 26th, 2014 at 8:56 PM ^
but essentially only Chad Ford--as of yesterday afternoon. I checked out 8 different sites. And I'd be happy to take any and all action on GRIII going round 1.
But thanks for being so negative about our current and past players. I am sure you think you are just telling it like it is.
January 26th, 2014 at 8:34 PM ^
but it's not public info since it's being done behind closed doors. If they didn't get a guarantee from a team, they wouldn't have declared for the draft. Remember Jason Maxiell? Joe D guaranteed that he'll take him if he's there and he did. That's exactly what happened when the team told either Manny or Darius.
Manny was projected at late 1st round but he left after his jr year so it's hard to blame him for leaving early beacuse if you're a sr and your stock will get worse just bc you're too old for NBA.
January 26th, 2014 at 10:59 PM ^
If Morris stayed for four years, know what, he'd only just graduated and entered NBA as a rookie.........
January 26th, 2014 at 6:54 PM ^
I love it when Tirico is announcing. Pardon my ignorance, but what is the source of his pro-Michigan viewpoint? Not that I'm complaining; it's just sort of uncommon for announers. Is he an alum?
January 26th, 2014 at 7:06 PM ^
January 26th, 2014 at 7:23 PM ^
He lives in AA and his Wife is from Trenton.
"My wife, Debbie Gibaratz, is a former all-state softball and basketball player from Trenton, in the late 1980s. We kind of moved back to be near her folks. We are sort of the proudest Syracuse alums in Ann Arbor, and we have a lot of friends here.
http://staatalent.com/Headlines/10/08/17mike-tirico.php