December 31st, 2022 at 8:20 PM ^
fuck em
onto next year
December 31st, 2022 at 8:25 PM ^
If the Roman Wilson play was on a 4th and goal, ok.
But shit, 1st and goal from 3 inches out and you fumble… can’t blame the refs.
And even if they call targeting, it’s 1st down at your own 40 with 25 seconds left, after a near pick, a drop, and a false snap.
But that’s the definition of targeting.
December 31st, 2022 at 8:26 PM ^
Can’t blame the refs one bit. Best oline in the country doesn’t get punked on the goal line 3 times.
December 31st, 2022 at 8:31 PM ^
You can still blame the refs. Yes. If Michigan doesn't do a stupid double reverse on 4th and goal, or doesn't fumble on the 1 yard line, or at least only has 1 pick 6, they most likely win. However, if review is going to be a part of the game, it should actually get it right and in both of those cases it failed miserably. 25 seconds on the 40 is a lifetime in college football. Despite Michigan playing like garbage the whole first half and giving up tons a big gains, they still should have won except for shit reviews that were wrong calls.
December 31st, 2022 at 9:24 PM ^
Barnhart was a total disaster today. Straight awful. He was used all day. Maybe Henderson will win that spot. Yikes.
December 31st, 2022 at 9:58 PM ^
Got damn you are a loser. Absolutely delusional. You are only here because of the shit upvotes from the game log. Nobody else likes you.
December 31st, 2022 at 10:11 PM ^
It's specific plays we're talking about, right? Not your feels.
December 31st, 2022 at 8:27 PM ^
Both things are true - The fumble sucks ass & isn't something that should happen to a championship level team.
But also, Mullings is never in that situation if that play is officiated correctly. Both things can be true
December 31st, 2022 at 8:29 PM ^
Correct me if I’m wrong, but Mullings never ran that play in the OSU and Purdue games, right? Each handoff he got was out of the shotgun.
So 4th and goal from the 2 and 1st and goal from 3 inches out they called plays they hadn’t called all year run by guys who’ve never run them.
It was a horrible call. I can’t believe they thought there was an angle to make it indisputable. But I’m way more angry about the play and play calls than the spot of the ball.
December 31st, 2022 at 8:34 PM ^
I mean, that's fine - you can be angry at whatever element of the situation you want to be angry at, I'm just sick of people dismissing completely any discussion of the egregious referee error that took the already scored TD off the board for UM because "hurr durr maybe don't fumble the ball if you want a TD"
At least you're rationally acknowledging that both elements of the way things unfolded were a kick to the balls haha
December 31st, 2022 at 8:38 PM ^
I can’t believe they thought there was an angle to make it indisputable
Just to be clear here: this was not a 50-50 kind of thing where they should have ruled "the play stands." The replay guy flat-out blew the call.
By the time Wilson completed the catch, he was well into the endzone - it wasn't even close. His knee touches down at the half-yard line at the beginning, but he doesn't have possession at the time. The replay guy completely forgot the catch rule.
That's why McDonough kept harping on it over and over.
And yes, we should have still scored. But that was not an iffy call or even a "re-officiated" one like Hutch against MSU. It was blown, period.
(And I won't even get into how they spotted the ball 2 yards short to begin with on that play.)
December 31st, 2022 at 10:54 PM ^
And...momentum killer. Devastating. Changed the game.
December 31st, 2022 at 8:30 PM ^
But WHY was Mullins in the game??? I know this belongs more in the coaching department but WHY does Harbaugh feel like he needs to lineup like the 1945 Yale squad when we are on the goal line? Go one wide out with a full back and run a REGULAR running play. To Edwards. To Stokes. To Gash. The minute they ruled Wilson down I knew that ball was getting fumbled. 100%. It has been happening since 2015.
December 31st, 2022 at 8:27 PM ^
The fact that we pissed down our leg on the play after doesn't change that Wilson absolutely scored and was robbed. It's not an either/or. We shouldn't have had to run a 1st and goal and we should have scored on it.
December 31st, 2022 at 8:36 PM ^
Yes. I hate the argument that says "you should've played better and taken it out of the refs' hands." No, you shouldn't have to play well enough to overcome a slanted field. Yes, Mullings fucked up. Yes, the coaches probably fucked up by getting too fancy on the goal line. And no, none of that should've happened. If your opponent is given a fifth down and they score on that play, "well just play better and stop them" is a bullshit argument. Likewise it's bullshit that Michigan was robbed of two crucial yards as well as a touchdown that should've absolutely been a touchdown.
December 31st, 2022 at 10:14 PM ^
Yeah, and from there the game theory and pressure alters significantly. Bad call that, even in the simplest analysis, would have left us with one more point than them.
In the end, though, this is a game you can go flailing for scapegoats about or shrug your shoulders/shake your head. It's very hard for me to see how this is a wrist-slitter--we didn't disgrace ourselves, after all the adversity, we came within a hair's breadth. But I'll never deny anyone their god-given right!
December 31st, 2022 at 8:52 PM ^
A touchdown is still a touchdown. I don’t give a shit if it was 9th down. Shit calls should be met with discipline.
December 31st, 2022 at 8:21 PM ^
7 points taken off the board, on a 6 point loss. Targeting not called, when it could have extended the game.
All on a 6 point loss.
Case closed.
December 31st, 2022 at 8:25 PM ^
Yeah let’s just ignore the 2 pick sixes, crap play calling, trick play screw ups, and overall getting outcoached in every way.
But I can see how it’s easier to blame the refs.
December 31st, 2022 at 8:28 PM ^
You have confused a necessary condition with a sufficient one.
December 31st, 2022 at 8:30 PM ^
I mean it was a one score game and we had a TD taken off the board. The refs weren’t terrible but replay needs to be better. If not CLEAR AND OBVIOUS then they need to let the call stand. Too often they change calls where they think it might be correct.
December 31st, 2022 at 8:34 PM ^
It can be both. Pretty much everyone nationally is saying Michigan was screwed out of that TD.
If the TD was called correctly, it's a 14-10 game, and momentum is with Michigan. The horrendous call led to a turnover, and momentum completely on TCU's side.
I hated the 4th down call on the first drive. I wanted the 3 points. I hated many other play calls. I hated the corner blitzes where we got burned. I hated that we botched a snap on the last offensive play. I hated the two pick-6's. But none of that changes the fact that the refs f'd Michigan out of a touchdown. And remember, it was called a TD on the field.
December 31st, 2022 at 8:58 PM ^
Replay booth, not the refs. In both cases, the TD removed, and the non targeting that was clearly textbook targeting. But the refs also failed to call that one live.
December 31st, 2022 at 10:17 PM ^
The refs on the field review the play on a monitor now. It wasn’t “the booth” that screwed it up.
January 1st, 2023 at 10:32 AM ^
Sorry, but this is true in the Big Ten but not for an SEC officiated game and especially not true for a college football playoff game. The white hat referee on the field has the ability to view the play on the monitor, but it is the booth in the stadium, collaboratively with the SEC instant replay command center in Birmingham, AL, collaboratively with national officiating leaders (given it is a CFP game) making the decision.
In the SEC, the purpose of the monitor on the field is so the white hat referee can more aptly describe the rationale for the replay decision to the head coaches.
December 31st, 2022 at 10:16 PM ^
I think the point is the expectation from the officials is that they should not have any impact whatsoever in the final score of the game.
When you take a touchdown off the board so obvious the ESPN panel feels compelled to talk about how egregious the call was, followed by just deciding after review they're going to ignore a targeting call to end the game, there is valid reason to consider whether or not the officiating had a deciding factor in the outcome of the final score.
Could the Michigan players have played a cleaner game to keep themselves out of those situations? Without a doubt. Could the coaches have called a better game in a few critical situations? Most definitely. Does that give the officials the license to make two inexplicable calls in high leverage moments while the game is in balance? I think any football fan would agree their job is to call the game as the rules are written.
December 31st, 2022 at 10:38 PM ^
This is a thread on officiating. That is why people are talking about officiating. Grow up.
December 31st, 2022 at 11:01 PM ^
If only your boy Cade were in the game!
January 1st, 2023 at 3:12 PM ^
I honestly find the complaining about the complaining about the refs much worse than the complaining about the refs.
They failed at their job and made massive mistakes that significantly favored TCU in a close, wild game. TCU deserved to win that game but they also got some help from the refs. Michigan played hard but those calls were crucial. Hard to argue otherwise.
December 31st, 2022 at 8:48 PM ^
Refs will miss some calls. That's part of the game.
The infuriating thing about this game was that the review official made the absolutely wrong call twice (Wilson touchdown and targeting). The reason to have a replay is to take take out the instantaneous nature of difficult calls and get them right. I can forgive a ref for making a bad interference call (or non call). But to totally screw up a review in a game with these stakes is unforgivable and should be investigated.
January 1st, 2023 at 10:35 AM ^
We really can’t definitively say the wrong calls were made. Based on the video angles available to us, it feels like the wrong decisions were made. But we don’t have access to all of the video angles the booth has. We don’t have the ability to sync multiple cameras like the booth has. I don’t know if the other angles explain the calls that were made or not, but the potential exists.
January 1st, 2023 at 3:23 PM ^
I respectfully disagree. The replay on Wilson's catch showed that his hands first make contact with the ball juuuust outside the goal line. He gains possession of the ball as he's sliding into the end zone on his butt. By the time he gets it, he's well inside the end zone. I have to agree that we only - and repeatedly - seemed to see one angle of that call though, which was annoying. And I would've like to have seen some from the goal line. But from what I saw, there is likely no angle that shows Wilson possessing the ball short of the goal line.
The no-call and failed review on Loveland was just a total failure though. And I don't think there are other angles that would have proved otherwise. In the moment, I actually thought the guy speared Loveland and thought it should be a penalty, even with the wild nature of the play. But there was no flag. The replay clearly showed the dude lowering his head and driving his helmet into the back of Loveland's head and neck. Maybe the dude was trying to make an emphatic play on a big 4th down stop but that is ABSOLUTELY a penalty. And those rules are designed to protect the players. The fact they fucked it up on replay (both plays) is a whole new level of incompetence and frustration. I'm not saying Michigan would've won the game if that was called correctly, but...we'll never know. They never got the chance.
December 31st, 2022 at 8:21 PM ^
A bunch of people are going to come in and say "well we made mistakes so can't blame the refs" but two things can be true.
1. We made a lot of mistakes that prevented us from winning (TCU did too by the way)
2. Removing a touchdown from the board in a six point game caused us to lose.
December 31st, 2022 at 9:16 PM ^
Wrt your second point. Touchdown shouldn't have been removed, but that didn't cause Michigan to lose. It did make it more likely that they would lose. If the TD stands, the game plays out differently - can't know what would've happened.
December 31st, 2022 at 10:03 PM ^
It changed the entire flow of the game subsequently. Keep it a TD and there’s no fumble. Full stop. That call 100% changed the outcome. You can harp on the fumble all you want but it’s a play that should not have had to be played.
Nobody is saying M didn’t make mistakes - and theirs were all higher impact than TCUs - but that call changed the forward path of the game.
December 31st, 2022 at 10:26 PM ^
That was my point, it should have stayed a TD, but the rest of the game would play out differently. So, you can't say if the call was not overturned Michigan would have won (ie only lost by 6 and reversal cost 7, so Michigan would have won by 1).
January 1st, 2023 at 3:35 PM ^
That is true. Maybe TCU was just a team of destiny and would've won anyway but I also think that really hurt Michigan. That TD would've made it 14-10 (or was it 21-10 at that point?, either way it's huge) and squashes a lot of TCU's momentum. Instead, 21-3, puts Michigan on their heels and they played very desperate - even panicky - for the rest of the game. If that call stands, that fumble of course doesn't happen and Michigan can control the game the way they like to. Instead, it turned into a Big XII-style Shootout/Hootinanny, which is emphatically NOT Michigan's game. And they still could've won. Part of me wonders if that second pick-6 doesn't happen; if that TD stands, Michigan isn't chasing its tail all game and can focus on establishing the run more. I honestly thought that if Michigan ever got a lead late in the game, they would end up winning comfortably. Alas...
Players bear a lot of responsibility in this one: they turned the ball over and missed blocks/tackles/assignments all night. But the bulk of the blame falls on the coaching staff and then the refs. I really feel like the adults failed the kids in this game.
December 31st, 2022 at 8:21 PM ^
Stole the show unfortunately. Worse than JT was short. Warren won't do anything. Manual won't do anything
December 31st, 2022 at 8:21 PM ^
That's enough, isn't it?
December 31st, 2022 at 8:22 PM ^
Feels shitty pointing the finger at the refs but…this was a poorly officiated game, to say the least…
On the other hand, we came with the swagger that we were going to hang 90 on TCU so the refs shouldn’t have mattered as much as they did
December 31st, 2022 at 8:24 PM ^
Well, to be fair, if the offensive coaching staff didn't have their brains run down their legs, we probably have 55 or 59 points as it is, even with JJ's 2 pick-6s.
December 31st, 2022 at 8:31 PM ^
Hung half of 90 and more points on O than them. Definitely mistakes - opening drive calls inside the 5, surprising number of false starts, the pick sixes - but the overturned TD was a definite game changer; the fumble doesn’t happen. Even the WWL was calling it egregious.
December 31st, 2022 at 8:23 PM ^
Fuck these referees. A bunch of dickless cowards who didn't want to do the right thing.
There is no such thing as targeting. And apparently Roman Wilson had to run clear to Santa Fe to make sure that TD counted.
December 31st, 2022 at 8:23 PM ^
The refs sucked ass. Pathetic all game long. Wilson catch a clear TD as he didn’t have possession until the end zone. Stole a chance for UM at the end. That was textbook targeting. That hit happens any other time of the game, 100% confirmed targeting.
December 31st, 2022 at 8:23 PM ^
When was the last time UM lost a game for a reason other than the refs? Late 1800's?
December 31st, 2022 at 8:24 PM ^
Michigan lost because they failed to execute in the red zone three times in the first half, putting them in desperation mode for the entire second half. But the refs fucked us, too. The two are not mutually exclusive.
December 31st, 2022 at 8:27 PM ^
This should have 100 upvotes but I digress.
December 31st, 2022 at 11:05 PM ^
If only Cade were playing?!
December 31st, 2022 at 8:27 PM ^
Nobody said they lost because of the refs but a 7-point swing in a 6-point loss does have an impact.
December 31st, 2022 at 10:28 PM ^
A seven point swing early in any non-mismatch is going to have an impact.