TCU Snowflakes: The Refs

Submitted by mi93 on December 31st, 2022 at 8:19 PM

How about a place for the ref show?  Spot before the Roman TD, the TD, the targeting. More?

mfan_in_ohio

December 31st, 2022 at 10:00 PM ^

In two of Michigan’s last three losses, they have lost by less than a TD in games where they had a TD overturned wrongly on review. Those are partly on refs, though in both games the team made critical mistakes that let the ref screwups affect the result.

The Georgia game could have been reffed by ten guys from South Quad and we still would have lost. 

 

umich1

January 1st, 2023 at 10:38 AM ^

Ironically, there is a quote from Fielding Yost in the early 1900s after Michigan won because of a controversial call.  They asked Yost’s thoughts about the call after the game and he essentially said, years from now they’ll look back in the record books and it will say Michigan won.

Unfortunately, this still rings true.

sharklover

December 31st, 2022 at 8:23 PM ^

Shameful ref game. They made some bad calls both ways.

But how do you not call targeting? That was the very definition of a textbook targeting offense. I know the timing was less than ideal. But that was just egregious.

Yeoman

December 31st, 2022 at 8:40 PM ^

Of course they knew it was textbook targeting. They didn't call it for the same reason Lahoz showed 19 yellows in a World Cup match but didn't send anyone off (including ignoring two stone-cold textbook automatic yellows that would have been seconds). They "didn't want to decide the game."

Not the officiating philosophy I'd prefer, but it's a choice and it may well be the preference of their evaluators.

Yeoman

December 31st, 2022 at 9:25 PM ^

Messi wasn't what I was thinking of--that certainly could have been yellow for "disrespecting the game" but it wasn't obligatory (deliberate handball is a foul, not a caution, but a cynical handball is a step beyond deliberate).

It was Paredes blasting the ball into the opponents' bench after being whistled for a reckless (or worse) tackle that was the worst of the lot. That's straight red anywhere else and it wasn't even a yellow. And then van Dijk in the ensuing scrum. That's probably red anywhere else too.

Whatever you do, don't interfere with the spectacle. That's the philosophy.

sharklover

January 1st, 2023 at 2:44 PM ^

He had already carded another player for a cynical and intentional handball earlier in the game. The laws don't require a card for Messi in that situation, but one should have been issued for the sake of consistency, at least. 

And yes, for sure Paredes deserved at least a yellow for kicking the ball into the Dutch bench, and that kick came about a second after a cynical foul that also deserved a yellow. So two consecutive yellows at the same time or a straight red would have been appropriate.

I'd probably issue a red to van Dijk, too, but mostly for the sake of avoiding skewing the balance of the game. I'd be okay with a yellow for what he did in other contexts.

Yeoman

January 1st, 2023 at 3:49 PM ^

And it's Lahoz of all people, who once sent a player off for saying "you are very bad." When he behaves that far out of character it means he knows what his bosses want. I saw one referee online describe it as being the "arbiter of the spectacle" instead of the "arbiter of the Laws." That seems exactly on point.

And that's how last night felt to me. Yep, that's targeting. But screw the rulebook, we're not calling it.

(The other handball stopped an attack, didn't it? That's still a textbook yellow, cynical or not. Messi's isn't unless the ref deems it unsporting/disrespectful. I'd have been ok if he'd given it, to be clear, but it's not like Paredes walking free.)

Mark McBoneski

December 31st, 2022 at 8:23 PM ^

I watched without sound, and I was absolutely dumbfounded when they reversed the touchdown. His butt hit the turf, but that was before he had control of the ball (in the endzone). Absolutely no way that's not a touchdown. 

I wanna hear what the talking heads said to justify that overturn. 

And don't even get me started on that textbook targeting. 

Michfan777

December 31st, 2022 at 8:23 PM ^

They didn’t directly cause the loss (but did suck major dick), but I still hope their shitty performance leads to them coming home tonight to their wives in bed with other men, causing them despair and emotional distress for the rest of their shitty lives. Fuck em.

bronxblue

December 31st, 2022 at 8:26 PM ^

They were awful all game and you could tell from the jump they were going to be.  TCU got hosed on that roughing-the-passer call so it went both ways but in this type of game the fact the refs just missing little things (they repeatedly misspotted balls, for example) was infuriating. 

dbrhee

December 31st, 2022 at 8:50 PM ^

Your points could be right about both sides but seems like the critical calls did cost us more../

1. TD reverse is clear and the misplacement of where the ball should be..

2. Lack of intentional grounding for TCU BUT happened for JJ.... 

 

I think most people are complaining here is that the ref actually do it right.. This is supposed the SEC crew that is the best when comparing to other conference refs BUT they were horrible.. At the end the 2 Pick 6 hurts BUT Michigan lost by 6 and the overturned TD was a 14 point swing in many ways.. 

Jaxpo

December 31st, 2022 at 8:29 PM ^

-Wrong spot on the turnover that shorted Michigan 2 yards led to...

-Michigan's TD being wrongly overturned (Michigan lost by 6 so ya it kinda matters)

- On TCU's last drive the WR's hand was out of bounds which should have stopped the clock. This would have saved a Michigan timeout.

- Targeting that clearly was and replay officials refused to follow the rules

 

4 game changing plays officials got wrong

 

Could Michigan have played better? Yes, no doubt. However, this reoccurring theme of Michigan getting jobbed by officials in major sporting events is getting old.

dbrhee

December 31st, 2022 at 8:51 PM ^

Yet there were key conjunctions that TCU seem to get the best calls.. Again, I am not being jaded as I look many pass interference that TCU did commit but was not called. So it is not about how much one side gets compare to another BUT rather how many that should be called that were not called... 

WayOfTheRoad

December 31st, 2022 at 8:30 PM ^

Not good but the staff and team lost this game. JJ two pick six INTs, a fumble inside the 2 (regardless of the blown Wilson call). Overall twice inside the 2 and they get zero points.

To be fair, there was a pretty blatant PI that wasn't called on UM and another less blatant that is called in most games. No flag on either.

I don't come away from that game thinking the refs gave it away. They had a couple bad ones but that's expected. Michigan lost the game themselves, TCU played a great game.

Venom7541

December 31st, 2022 at 8:43 PM ^

The problem is review failed miserably and cost the game. The call on the field was touchdown. There wasn't inconclusive evidence it wasn't a touchdown. The evidence actually confirmed a touchdown and they reversed it and cost 7 points. The targeting was reviewed and a definition targeting and review failed. That may or may not have cost the game, but it did cost any chance of Michigan winning. Yes, Michigan played like ass the first half and gave up 2 pick 6's but still should have won if review was actually competent. I wish they would just get rid of review. It messes up way too often on big game winning or losing plays, ie the spot review against OSU. If they can't do it right. Get rid of it.

WayOfTheRoad

December 31st, 2022 at 8:51 PM ^

I agree that was blown. Yes, cost the game. 

 

But so did about 9 other things. The refs blew one call in an egregious way. Technically cost them the game. Agree.

Michigan then sat on their own nutsack about 9 times before and after that. Don't do one of those and you also win. The Philly special hasn't worked for anyone in 4 years. JJ threw two INTs for TDs.

I get that people are mad and hate that call specifically. I do, too. It just isn't THE reason UM lost unless one wants to act like there wasn't a ton of game played around that call. Also, if the call stands that changes the rest of the game in says we can't possibly predict. The whole butterfly effect thing. 

What we DO know is UM played like shit all around that one bad call and literally the play after. It's not why UM lost. It contributed.

gbdub

December 31st, 2022 at 10:22 PM ^

Seriously, what the hell is the point of this comment and the 100 like it? It was a close game. That had a lot to do with a lot of big plays that both teams made and didn’t make.

And the refs absolutely took off the winning margin from Michigan’s score on a horrible call. In a close game, that MATTERS and I’m not going to pretend it doesn’t. 

UMVAFAN

December 31st, 2022 at 11:33 PM ^

If you put those points back on the board and nothing else changes in the game, the game is either going into OT because Michigan missed the extra point, or Michigan wins by 1 point. It was definitely a huge part of the outcome of the game.

Could 3 points on the first drive have helped bridge the 6 point deficit? Yes. Could one fewer pick 6 have changed the outcome? Yes. Could the defense giving up one fewer explosive play made the difference? Yes. Were any of those things reviewed on replay by the officials and points taken off the board erroneously? No.

If Michigan scores there, there is no chance for the subsequent fumble and Michigan regains the momentum. Instead, they do fumble and don’t get any points. The game would have been completely different if the calls stands.

The non-targeting call was disappointing, but it’s only conjecture whether it would’ve had a material impact on the game. The Wilson TD being overturned undoubtedly had a major impact.

harmon40

December 31st, 2022 at 8:30 PM ^

There should be an investigation into the replay officials. The TD overturn and the targeting call were both clearly wrong

That said:

No pick sixes: TCU 37

Don’t fail inside the 5: UM 59

Should have won comfortably 

umich1

January 1st, 2023 at 10:44 AM ^

Not true in the SEC and not true in a CFP game.  This decision was made by the replay official in the booth in the stadium, in collaboration with the SEC instant replay command center in Birmingham, and in collaboration with national level, experienced officiating leadership.