Tailgatin' Rumors: Future Big House Expansion
So I'm at my usual tailgate on Saturday, chowing down on some texas brownies and spinach artichoke dip, which were both delicious, when I struck up a conversation with the father of one of the students there. Turns out he works for the contracting company that was responsible for the Big House expansion, as well as various other stadium expansions around the country. He named Spartan Stadium, Soldier Field, and the newly announced Rose Bowl expansion as a few examples of the work they have done. He says that Penn St. is planning to expand very soon, and their expansion will put them in front of the Big House for total capacity. Not to be out done, M is already working on plans to expand behind the South Endzone. The numbers haven't been nailed down yet, but he said they were planning to add between 3,000 and 6,000 seats, and that number will undoubtedly depend on how ambitious the Penn St. expansion is.
Almost forgot. I also asked him if he knew anything about new scoreboards and he said the athletic department hasn't said anything to their company regarding them.
October 18th, 2010 at 8:54 AM ^
Love it. The first time you see the stadium up close and that underground bowl design, you feel comfortable that the University can expand it any time to keep that capacity the highest.
Thanks for the update
October 18th, 2010 at 8:59 AM ^
October 18th, 2010 at 9:15 AM ^
A&M has long had a plan for closing in the south end of Kyle Field, bringing capacity somewhere into that neighborhood. The problem is that they can't consistenly bring in 80,000 now, so there is no impetus for expansion. Even when A&M was very, very good, attendance was not outstanding. This is the penalty you pay for having a University way out in the middle of nowhere (Houston: 1.5hrs, Austin: 2hrs, San Antonio: 3.5 hrs, DFW: 4 hrs, etc.).
October 18th, 2010 at 9:58 AM ^
Driving distances between cities in Texas are absolutely horrendous. Everything's bigger in Texas reigns true, especially the number of wasted hours spent traveling/commuting.
October 18th, 2010 at 10:11 AM ^
Let's hope A&M builds a stadium better then a bonfire.
October 18th, 2010 at 10:41 AM ^
It will always be too soon.
October 18th, 2010 at 11:00 AM ^
I guess it's funny when college kids die? Who knew?
October 18th, 2010 at 1:49 PM ^
UT also has plans to close off the south end of DKR stadium. They are also trying to get to one of the largest capacities and are always sold out. They will have some logistics issues pulling this off however.
October 18th, 2010 at 9:01 AM ^
They should tier it. It will make the stadium look bigger. Also, why would they choose the south endzone? There is more room on the north side.
October 18th, 2010 at 9:05 AM ^
I think it would be absolutely awesome if they added a second level behind both endzones, kind of 'completing' the upper bowl that the boxes have started. I would think that this would easily ad another 20k-30k in seats, and the noise level on the field would be absolutely insane.
October 18th, 2010 at 9:12 AM ^
but the majority of parking is at the South end.
October 18th, 2010 at 9:20 AM ^
The golf courses are at the south end zone as well as Pioneer, but the stadium itself is almost on the street. It would be hard to build with limited space there.
October 18th, 2010 at 9:15 AM ^
Don't know what the reason is but I have heard the same thing in the past - south side would be expanded first. Could have something to do with the terrain.
One plus - expanding on the south side preserves more of the campus view from the stadium.
October 18th, 2010 at 10:09 AM ^
Probably so you don't look into the sun. My seats are in the north endzone and that sucks on the hot days.
October 18th, 2010 at 2:24 PM ^
and tier it. Could you imagine how noisy it would be down there? Too bad the old blues would pitch a fit.
October 18th, 2010 at 5:07 PM ^
I think the students deserve the best seats in the house. After all, athletics are supposed to be all about the student body and student-athletes, according to the NCAA. Let the NCAA and its member schools literally put their money where their mouths are, and give the students the sections between the 40's.
Then, I would be more likely to believe their stale arguments against a playoff.
October 18th, 2010 at 5:16 PM ^
Name me one single major-college stadium with that kind of seating, for students. When you think about the business of fundraising for major college athletics, it is a ridiculous notion.
October 18th, 2010 at 5:24 PM ^
October 19th, 2010 at 1:32 PM ^
On the sideline toward the endzone from the lower deck to the upper deck?
I've sat in it, it's not much different than a lot of schools.
October 19th, 2010 at 2:06 PM ^
October 19th, 2010 at 4:29 PM ^
Just like Penn State, or Syracuse, and so on.
October 18th, 2010 at 9:27 AM ^
M should just go for it. 150,000. It's not like there is a lack of demand. Do it.
October 18th, 2010 at 10:24 AM ^
when he designed the stadium in the first place. His original plans called for a 2nd deck and a total capacity of about 150k, but the University would only fund 80k. They poured the footings for a second deck when it was built, anyway, so they could add them whenever it seemed opportune.
October 18th, 2010 at 2:30 PM ^
Can I just ask, what is the basis for it? Is there some authoritative reference for this old story?
I think "decks" are one of the worst eyesores imaginable.
October 18th, 2010 at 2:44 PM ^
http://michigantoday.umich.edu/2010/09/story.php?id=7865
Yost originally wanted to build a 140,000 seat stadium, but settled for a capacity of 70,000 with 15,000 temporary bleachers and—crucially—room to expand. They installed 22 miles of California redwood for the seats, and planted a single four-leaf clover for good luck.
Though most fields ran east-west at the time, Yost designed Michigan Stadium to run north-south. This kept the sun out of the players' eyes and the fall winds to a minimum. Today, all football fields do it Yost's way. He also had the foresight to install footings for a second deck, and, incredibly, to make eight large conduits in the cement to handle the wiring necessary for electronic media.
That's probably the best I can give you short of going to the Bentley and scouring through the old records.
October 18th, 2010 at 2:59 PM ^
I appreciate the link.
I'll ask John (Bacon) about it whenever I see him next.
October 18th, 2010 at 9:39 AM ^
I think that I would beg to differ on the lack of demand. Although there are always people that seem to be looking for tickets, I don't believe there are another 20,000 people who would purchase season tickets if they became available. Michigan had a difficult time putting bodies in the suites and club seats this year and unless things turn around soon, they won't have commtiments for the seating in the near future.
I am fortunate enough to have some great club seats this year and I have enjoyed the games 100x more than sitting in the bowl, but I look at the 2012 schedule with so few home games and wonder if it would be worth the cost. I'm sure I'm not the only one in that situation. Times are tight and this is a luxury.
October 18th, 2010 at 9:52 AM ^
The schedule problem has been made even worse by adding Nebraska to the same rotation as ND and OSU. I would have a real hard time justifying buying season tickets in even years. The only way to fix it at this point is to add marque home and home series opposite the ND/NU/OSU rotation.
October 18th, 2010 at 10:57 AM ^
That's a great idea, but issue UM has with scheduling home-and-homes is re: the revenue from these games. I read in another thread (re: the 'Bama game in '12, IIRC) that revenue gets split between all the Big 10 teams. (Or is that just for the away games?) So there's not as much incentive to schedule h-&-hs with big-name schools vs. bringing in more tomato cans / Baby Seal U's to the Big House b/c not as much revenue benefit.
From revenue standpoint, best alternative is seemingly to go the neutral-site route, a la selling our souls to play Nick Satan's team in Dallas in '12, b/c I think UM gets to keep their half of the revenue from this game. Would be interesting to see if UM ever pursues holding a neutral-site game at Yankee Stadium, like ND is, given our large alumni base there and Delany's lusting after that TV market.
October 18th, 2010 at 11:17 AM ^
when they finish the final phase of the original project and widen all the aisles and when (or if) they widen the space between each seat by ~1". We lose >3K seats that way, if not more. Brandon's not blind to the fact that in the alumni survey that preceded this expansion, one of the top requests (besides more + better bathrooms) was that the Big House stay #1 in capacity. I think we may lose that distinction when this last phase is completed. Plus, demand is still high enough that UM could sell out 115-120K.
Anyone have a SWAG as to how many more seats UM could gain by building up, say, another 20 or so rows on either (or both) ends of the stadium, and what the new capacity would be, if you assume we start from 108,000 based on the above?
October 18th, 2010 at 1:22 PM ^
I'm pretty sure threre would be more and more season tickets every year. There is still a very long line on the waiting list for alumni student tickets so I would assume we would be ok.
October 18th, 2010 at 9:57 AM ^
I met the engineers from HNTB who did the design work and they have worked on a bunch of other stadiums across the country like Iowa, MSU, and I believe Nebraska, and they said there were already plans being discussed with the university for the next level of expansion in the stadium mainly the endzones. The problem is due to university rules of spreading money around to multiple companies I don't believe HNTB can be involved with any football expansion work for the next few years, because one of the engineers was telling me that they were told not to bid on the Chrysler renovations so that they could be given the Stadium job.
October 18th, 2010 at 10:09 AM ^
Crisler
October 18th, 2010 at 7:16 PM ^
i doubt that.
my company fabricated and erected the east side of the expansion and the infill. and now we are doing the supports for the lighting.
October 18th, 2010 at 10:20 AM ^
i am not sure that we could fill the stadium with another 20k bodies. watching the games on tv this year, i see a lot of empty spaces at the top of the bowl. especially in the student section. i dont ever remember it being this way. when i was a student and we played MSU, you had to stand almost sideways, it was that packed.
October 18th, 2010 at 10:54 AM ^
As someone near the top of the student section, it was absolutely packed for the MSU game.
The Iowa game was a different story. Probably because of the fact that it's fall break.
October 19th, 2010 at 2:41 PM ^
Agreed ... the games I've been to this year the students section has been packed.
I personally NEVER leave games early but I remember being a student and walking back from the MSU game in 2004 and seeing people who had left the game early because we were down 17 points in the 4th quarter.
I wanted to tell them to hand over their season tickets because they didn't deserve them.
I get chills still just thinking about the game.
http://umgoblog.com/post/The-Greatest-U-of-M-vs-MSU-Game.aspx
October 18th, 2010 at 10:56 AM ^
Considering the price of tickets through stubhub/ebay/craigslist, etc it seems that there would be demand to fill a large addition. Isn't that what forces up the prices- short supply?
October 18th, 2010 at 11:09 AM ^
From the U's perspective, supply and demand are not closely related, since they receive only face value no matter what you see on stubhub or craigslist.
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October 18th, 2010 at 11:17 AM ^
but you are missing his point. He is saying that high prices on the open market leads one to believe that the demand is high for the set supply of tickets. Therefore, there is room to increase the supply without the demand falling to the point that tickets will not be bought.
October 18th, 2010 at 2:20 PM ^
everyone in the know is aware that Michigan Stadium will have a dome by 2016.
October 18th, 2010 at 2:40 PM ^
I'm skeptical of the PSU claim. For one thing, I don't see any areas in Beaver Stadium where more seats could be easily put in (and I'm not even sure its groundings could securely support anything more). For another, the demand doesn't seem to be there. Since expansion, PSU no longer sells out on a regular basis. Their attendance is routinely a few thousand below capacity - and that's coming off back-to-back 11-win seasons.
October 18th, 2010 at 8:53 PM ^
I was talking to the homeowner of our tailgate spot in the neighborhood just west of the stadium. He said that homeland security had met with residents of the surrounding neighborhoods about the possibility of closing the section of Main St. between Stadium and Pauline to car traffic for 3 hours before and 1 hour after games. It could take effect as early as the next home game. The concern is over how a close a vehicle driving down Main St. comes to the west side of the stadium.
October 18th, 2010 at 10:21 PM ^
annarbor.com reported on that: