Should undrafted underclassmen be allowed to return to college?
Heard a segment on ESPNU Radio the other day and one of the hosts brought up the idea of any underclassmen who declares for the NFL/NBA draft who goes undrafted, should be allowed to return to college.
I thought this was a great idea. Certainly there would be some issues as far as amateurism goes, but I feel like these guys should have a chance to come back and improve their stock for the following year.
30% of underclassmen went undrafted this year which is a pretty significant number.
What does the board think? Good/bad idea? Dont care?
April 30th, 2019 at 11:24 AM ^
A lot of "processing" recruits would happen with the current schedule:
Bowl games end (December/early Jan)
Signing Day (December/February)
NFL declarations and combine (Feb/March)
Draft (April)
Presumably this would force the schedule to change as it has recently in college basketball
April 30th, 2019 at 11:31 AM ^
There are a lot of opportunities prior to the draft(s) to determine the likelihood of being drafted by a team. I would say no, because it also would make recruiting a mess. I think you would see a lot of HS players being slow-recruited if it was possible to return after the draft.
April 30th, 2019 at 11:47 AM ^
If you coupled it with a per-year recruit cap instead of a total scholarship cap, it would work. That would be my preference; no incentive to screw over any players (recruits or current players).
April 30th, 2019 at 12:54 PM ^
Exactly. 25 recruits per year. 4-year scholarship guarantee. It puts incentive on schools keeping players around rather than processing them.
It's one of those ideas that may sound good, but is just unworkable.
It ignores Title IX problems, incentivizes not allowing players to transfer, punishes taking transfers and JUCOs, etc.
While not letting coaches push unwanted players out is a laudable goal, this would inevitably restrict the options of players and most transfers are for the player's benefit. I'd bet most coaches would be happier with a strict no transfer rule.
People keep saying "Title IX problems", but what are those? I also think player transfers would work about the way they are now; guys don't transfer to places that don't have room for them anyway. So if a guy leaves he's still "on your books" until he lands somewhere else, which then opens a spot for you to take a transfer.
Seems like it might hurt some players that have decided to stick in the draft. Doing it seriously can burn some bridges to return. Missing class, letting agents pay for training, etc are part of what you might do to maximize your draft prospects.
My guess is that with the current system, very few of those undrafted players wanted to return to school.
April 30th, 2019 at 11:32 AM ^
If they played in the bowl game, then yes. If not, pound sand
April 30th, 2019 at 11:42 AM ^
Not this again.
April 30th, 2019 at 12:03 PM ^
Damn you're salty over that bowl game. LOL. Relax brother.
April 30th, 2019 at 11:35 AM ^
My biggest problem with bringing players back would be what happens when bringing someone back puts you over the limit on scholarships?
What do you do? Tell the freshman you just offered, and who signed a letter of intent to come play for you, and is packing his bags to head up early for summer conditioning that his scholarship is no longer valid because someone who left early made a mistake and now wants to come back? And then which freshman gets the shaft and loses their scholarship? That's not right, in my mind, and you will lose a LOT of future potential recruits over it.
If them coming back puts you right at or under the scholarship limit, then maybe you could convince me. But if them coming back puts the team over the scholarship limit, I'd say if they want to come back, they come back as a walk-on. It would just not be fair to pull the rug out from under some freshman because an upperclassmen made a mistake and now wants to come back. Puts the program in a really bad light, and I know I wouldn't want my son going to play for that school if that's the sort of thing that could happen.
There's also the "old school" part of me that says to a player if he didn't get drafted "Well, you made your bed when you decided to leave. Time to sleep in it." By all means, come back and get your degree. But you forfeit your right to continue your scholarship the day you decide to declare for the draft.
April 30th, 2019 at 11:46 AM ^
why does that have to be a problem?
the ncaa can allow the player to return, but that permission does not have to require the team to put the returning player back on scholarship. in fact, because as it stands scholarships are technically renewed yearly, allowing undrafted players to return without requiring teams to preserve those players' scholarships would be easy to implement.
April 30th, 2019 at 11:49 AM ^
too easy to game the system and the numbers would be mind-boggling. if you were some of the wonderfully ethical SEC schools you would tell all ~ 65 underclassmen to declare. you'd then sign a 25 (or 45 or 65) recruit class, and when none of your underclassmen got drafted, you would've just doubled the scholarship limit.
April 30th, 2019 at 12:53 PM ^
it doesn't work like that. you can't have more than 85 players on scholarship. so:
1. many underclassman wouldn't take the coach's advice; and
2. attempting to game the system would raise the risk of turning off recruits from signing with your school in the first place.
the effect of allowing undrafted kids to return to school is not likely to be significant. first, few kids declare without a reasonable assurance that they'll be drafted. second, if they're not drafted, particularly in football, they may not be that useful to their former team. those kids could go into the transfer portal.
ultimately, if you are interested in allowing kids to control their own destiny and to maximize their chances of being paid for their chosen career, allowing undrafted kids to return is a no-brainer. the downside is that certain kids will get bad advice, and so the number of kids leaving only to be undrafted might increase slightly. but that's already a potential problem now, unlikely to significantly worsen by this proposed change.
The B1G offers 4 year scholarships. Walk on scholarships are for one year.
April 30th, 2019 at 11:52 AM ^
Good points. Recruiting could definitely be an issue. I would say to maybe add 1-2 more scholarships a year, or leave a spot open in case one of your underclassmen goes undrafted.
April 30th, 2019 at 12:47 PM ^
But even then, when you leave only one spot open and a couple of juniors go undrafted, how do you decide who gets the spot back? What if Iggy and Poole went undrafted and both decided they wanted back in?
Does it go to meritocracy? (i.e. Sorry Poole, Iggy played better than you this year so go pound sand) Does it go to tenure? (Sorry Iggy, Poole has put more time in with the program than you, so go pound sand) Either way, in this situation you're leaving someone, or multiple someones, out in the cold.
I think the best answer is to either A) keep the current system and tell players that once they're gone, they're gone and there's no coming back except to finish their degrees on their own dime. Or B) allow undrafted players to come back, but as walk-ons. Whatever happened to personal responsibility and holding someone accountable for their choices? You want back on the team after leaving early? Okay fine, but you're paying your own way for at least one year. Maybe they can get their scholarship back if a spot opens up the following year and they decide to go the 5th year senior route. That's one area that I think can be determined by the players and coaching staff.
April 30th, 2019 at 12:54 PM ^
If they are walk-on's couldn't they walk-on at any program they choose?
That would be a lovely system.
April 30th, 2019 at 12:56 PM ^
I’d like to see them at least get to come back and finish their degree if nothing else.
That’s up to the school but athletic eligibility is up to NCAA. If a kid wants to come back and finish coursework on a non-athletic scholarship it’s totally okay.
April 30th, 2019 at 11:35 AM ^
I don't think it's a good idea. Schools recruit with expectations that underclassmen will declare if they are good enough and players look at depth chart with that in mind as well. If they are allowed to come back, it really throws everything out of wack and you would see a lot of transfers or processing post NFL draft.
I think it's justified to get a draft grade after your junior year and make a decision based on that. If you don't get drafted, then it just means that you have to take the hard way in the NFL as an UDFA.
The only way I can see kids coming back post draft is if they forfeit their scholarship and walk-on to the team instead.
April 30th, 2019 at 11:35 AM ^
I do like the hockey / baseball concept where you can be drafted and stay in college till your pro team wants you out - seems like that would work well for basketball
April 30th, 2019 at 12:42 PM ^
There would have to be some rules about when they could get called up. Could you imagine having a guy on your team for the first 2/3 of the season and then he gets called up leaving the team without that player for the final 1/3 of the season and Championship?
That would suck.
April 30th, 2019 at 11:37 AM ^
Yes, absolutely. People argue that you can’t manage scholarships as NSD takes place in February and the draft is in April. That’s an issue for the coaches to manage, it shouldn’t be a limitation for the players. I could see allowing it and the school has the right to void their scholarship IF they choose too. Players would then have to foot the bill for the following year. It would be incredibly rare imo that a school would withdraw the scholarship. It’s more likely they process someone else out of the program if they are full.
Basketball has moved in this direction, it is hopefully just a matter of time before this becomes a reality. Rules are becoming more player friendly, as they should, this is an easy win for everyone.
April 30th, 2019 at 12:51 PM ^
You can't call allowing a guy back player friendly when the only way it works is for another player to get processed out.
I'm not against it, but I foresee a likely scenario where undrafted players are basically free agents to join what ever school happens to have an open scholarship available.
The best teams (which typically have the most kids declare early) will most likely max out their scholarships via recruiting every year. Maybe they start leaving one slot open each year, but you can't afford to have too many gaps in your scholarship count. That means there will seldom be room for that player to come back to his original team.
The NCAA will need to change scholarship counts or make some other scholarship provision for this to work.
If the NCAA allowed this, I’d be curious what a player like Higdon would do. Would he stay with is UFA contract or come back for another year where he could hypothetically get drafted in the 6th or 7th round, which isn’t any better than his current position. I wonder where that line would be hypothetically.
Higdon didn't have any eligibility left. He came back for his senior year.
Understood, hence “player like” and “hypothetically”. I’m talking about someone, who under the hypothetical premise that the NCAA would allow back after declaring for the draft, didn’t get drafted but got a UFA contract.
April 30th, 2019 at 11:49 AM ^
Yes, of course they should, but they won't because the NCAA needs that threat of being left out in the cold to keep their unpaid labor around.
April 30th, 2019 at 11:51 AM ^
Of course they should. The NCAA literally has drafted players playing both college baseball and hockey.
It's not that hard.
April 30th, 2019 at 11:56 AM ^
Only if they played in the bowl game.
April 30th, 2019 at 11:57 AM ^
In a perfect world, yes. But in the screwed up alternate universe that is the NCAA, it wouldn't really work. Recruiting would become an issue, and a lot of guys violate certain "amateur" rules prior to the draft.
April 30th, 2019 at 12:02 PM ^
The answer to this question should always be yes, at least if you are going based off of what the NCAA stands for and their mission statement:
“Our mission is to be an integral part of higher education and to focus on the development of our student-athletes.”
Or maybe you can take this quote from the NCAA...
"We have to remind ourselves that this is about the young men and women we asked to come to our schools for a great educational experience. We have to collectively deliver on those promises. That’s what you care about That’s why we’re in this business.”
But we all know this isn't the case because the NCAA is extremely hypocritical.
April 30th, 2019 at 12:09 PM ^
I don't think so. It would make roster projection too hard. What happens if they try to come back and there's no room? Is it a de facto "grad transfer" situation?
I'd much rather have NFL teams draft out of HS like the NHL.
April 30th, 2019 at 12:21 PM ^
Yes. Next question.
April 30th, 2019 at 12:21 PM ^
Sure. Just do it right and don't half-ass it.
I'm sure somebody has already mentioned hockey/baseball. They're eligible at 18. They don't have to declare. Do it that way and allow draft rights to run along side college eligibility.
That's what I think should happen in football/basketball. If they're talented enough to get drafted at 18, by all means. Going to college (and getting free training and an education) should be a choice.
April 30th, 2019 at 12:30 PM ^
No way. Most of that 30% knew where they stood before draft day. With the NBA only having 2 rounds, 1 with a "guaranteed" contract, it is even more clear. They made their choice. Allowing waffling will just cause needless stress for coaches (roster management), teammates (this fool doesn't really want to be here) and incoming players (WTF there goes my route to playing time). All that mess to give a second chance to a delusional prima donna.
^^^This Post!
April 30th, 2019 at 12:32 PM ^
Yes, but organize it.
Allow them to only go to MIT if they academically qualify and have the money for tuition.
April 30th, 2019 at 12:42 PM ^
Does this mean Higdon would be coming back? /s
Would he be a better RB? NO?
Then lets hope not...give someone else a chance.
There people on the board who didn't know his eligibility ran out.
This is already how the basketball draft works, starting this year.
"A player who declares for the draft and stays in it loses his college eligibility when he is drafted. He can sign with any agent following an evaluation from the NBA Undergraduate Advisory Committee, and if he ends up undrafted, he has the opportunity to return to his school for at least another year only after terminating all agreements with that agent, effective with the 2019 draft"
NO...
Stop with the Waaaaambulance, of how players are unpaid labor etc; tired of that nonsense especially after having to pay off $80k of student loans. Also a lot of you complainers are forgetting that the coaches and staff for the football programs are training these students of "the game", and giving them the skills to make millions after they leave and move on to the NFL. No empathy or sympathy at all... none... if these kids wanted to make millions without the worries of injury or personal harm, then they could have studied harder, applied themselves in school and become a Dr., Attorney, Politician, etc. Instead they want to play a game and make millions... even professional video-gamers can now make good money... there's another option for these kids.
When you sign on with a University and give them a letter of intent, that's an agreement; I'm not even a fan of the transfers that are allowed. If this were to be allowed, it would cause even more of a cluster-F for recruiting. Is it fair to bring in a true frosh, under the premise that they are the replacement for someone leaving to the NFL, with the intent of giving him all of the playing time in the world, then to take it away from him because some D-bag who left early didn't get drafted?!
Seriously... check yourselves. I'm all about giving kids opportunity, but if they squander it, then I'm not sympathetic in the least.
No. Plain and simple. If you declare, you basically think you will be drafted. If you don't get drafted, BOO HOO. Shouldn't have declared. Good luck.