Semi-OT: YouTube TV may be dropping ESPN this week
December 14th, 2021 at 8:10 AM ^
Well, that will SUCK!!!
December 14th, 2021 at 8:30 AM ^
Sounds like a done deal if they are already telling you they will lower your costs.
December 14th, 2021 at 8:40 AM ^
They did this with another channel dispute earlier this year, and it wound up being nothing, they didn't lose the channels.
It's a negotiating tactic to put pressure on the channel, since people are more likely to get upset at YTTV if they're paying for something they're not getting.
December 14th, 2021 at 9:00 AM ^
Well, they did it with Bally's Regional Sports networks and Bally's didn't blink. Now YTTV doesn't show Tigers/Pistons/Red Wings games. I switched to DirecTV stream over the summer to watch the Tigers and back to YTTV this winter because I don't care about the Pistons/Wings.
If YTTV loses ESPN I will probably have to go back to DirecTV stream full time. Which will kind of suck because their cloud DVR is limited and their interface blows. Plus their channel overheated by Roku stick. So, I'm not too stoked about this.
December 14th, 2021 at 9:06 AM ^
Directv stream just did an update to their guide and it's somehow worse. It's slow and all the show names disappear if you don't pause and let it catch up. Also, when you get to the bottom of the guide, it stops. It doesn't go back to the top channels so you have to scroll in reverse. I can't imagine a real human designed it.
The 20 hours of dvr is ridiculous because you know it would cost them next to nothing to add more.
December 14th, 2021 at 9:36 AM ^
I checked out DirecTV Stream as an option and their prices are not competitive on top of having the worst DVR option. I think I'll switch to FuboTV if YTTV and Disney can't sort it out. Same price as YTTV and you get a 250 hour DVR.
December 14th, 2021 at 4:16 PM ^
A real DVR, or cloud based?
December 14th, 2021 at 9:54 AM ^
Wow. The app was total garbage four months ago when I left and now it's worse? Where do I sign up??!?
December 14th, 2021 at 10:02 AM ^
I use the app on Roku. I forgot to mention there is a sound leveling issue with the app also. If you use the leveling feature on Roku, your sound will periodically fluctuate wildly. From googling, it's an issue with the app on Roku only and there is no fix. So that's fun also.
December 14th, 2021 at 12:03 PM ^
Get a $30 Fire TV 4K Stick and call it a day.
December 14th, 2021 at 8:11 AM ^
Not likely to continue very long.
December 14th, 2021 at 8:15 AM ^
These streaming services either need to raise the monthly price to a level where there isn't a constant threat of losing channels or offer more a la carte options. l went back to directv stream after using hulu live and fubotv. I'm paying $95/mth and I hate at&t but at least the channel lineup isn't constantly changing and I can watch local teams.
December 14th, 2021 at 8:23 AM ^
It's a practical solution, but that price doesn't exist. Any older generation satellite subscriber will tell you that every new year comes some annual threat of losing some network channel. And Dish/DirectTV prices were among the highest you could find.
In the end this is just a push-pull ploy by a network who wants more for their broadcast rights and a provider who wants to pay less (but still charge you more). You just get to be the lucky unwilling middle-man participant.
YouTube TV understands it can't exist without ESPN, it's not like they'd be cutting PopTV or something. They also understand the old messaging of "Don't Lose Your ESPN! Visit website to complain!" works less because they get hit as being 50% complicit. So, they have a new strategy, passive aggression in the form of a temporary refund.
December 14th, 2021 at 8:34 AM ^
I think you are giving ESPN way to much credit. The issue will be the Disney stuff. ESPN doesn't have a ton of programming that people that subscribe to YouTube TV watch.
December 14th, 2021 at 9:01 AM ^
Oh no, it's definitely ESPN. ESPN charges almost 5 times as much as the next highest channel. It's all because of live sports. That's why if you look at the super cheap $25 discount cord cutting packages, none of them include ESPN.
The kids love the Disney stuff sure. But those are decimals to dollars. We sports fans are the ones who pay the bills. YouTube's price isn't really set based on demand, it's set on the channels they offer and their costs to broadcast them (combined with what the consumer will pay).
December 14th, 2021 at 9:16 AM ^
Disney owns ESPN.
December 14th, 2021 at 10:04 AM ^
Yes. And ABC and NatGeo, Freeform, FX. You were saying I was overestimating the impact of ESPN in this equation. Each channel has a price they charge to distributors like YouTube TV, Comcast, ATT Uverse, Dish etc. to carry their channel on their packages. Most channels like TLC or NatGeo or PopTV are cents per subscriber (less than a dollar). ESPN, is far and away the most expensive, at over $7 per subscriber. Fox News is next at $1.50.
ESPN's programming value is their live sports. That's what sponsors will pay big bucks for because it's live TV and people are forced to watch commercials. Every other channel, including the Disney ones are pennies on a dollar to ESPN's 7 dollars.
December 14th, 2021 at 1:25 PM ^
In the Live TV segment, ESPN is king. The rest of the Disney owned live TV channels (read: not Disney+) are either free (ABC, free over the air) or not worth a lot.
Literally everyone I know who still maintains a live TV subscription is doing so because of sports. Otherwise, they just run with some combo of non-live TV streaming, like Netflix, Disney+, Amazon Prime, etc.
December 14th, 2021 at 1:42 PM ^
My wife - god bless her - refuses to get rid of cable because she likes to turn on the TV and "whatever is on." Tried to explain a million times we have other, similar options, but nope. At the end of the day, we're getting a pretty good deal with Xfinity triple play and when I priced out our options, the price difference was not much for us, so I just stuck with it.
December 14th, 2021 at 2:15 PM ^
I agree. Xfinity is not much more expensive. Plus the Xfinity interface is exponentially better than any of the streaming services'.
December 14th, 2021 at 12:40 PM ^
Without live sports, how many people would cut cable? Honestly most of the non-sports I watch on live TV can be watched on hulu or netflix. Live sports are the only reason I have cable
December 14th, 2021 at 9:01 AM ^
YouTube TV subscribers don't watch NFL Countdown, Monday night Countdown, Monday Night Football, College Football, Gameday, College Hoop, Major League Baseball, Sportscenter, etc.?
That's a ton of programming that many sports fans will not go without.
December 14th, 2021 at 6:38 PM ^
I sub YTTV and it is mainly football I watch: college and NFL. The convenience is hard to beat and has allowed me to rewatch all the Michigan games this year. That's across CBS, ABC, NBC, ESPN, and B1G.
Now if the deal falls through, and I'm "given back" $15 from YT, would subbing Disney/ESPN give me access to the bowl games over the next month, especially the ones we care about? I'm pessimistic about this since I tried to sub Peacock to watch the Summer Olympics and it was lacking big time (something about NBC having to reserve the good content for the cable carriers).
What will end up happening is me hating all the companies involved.
December 14th, 2021 at 8:37 AM ^
That's why I left satellite. "Thanks for being a customer for 10+ years. Here's your annual 50% price increase. Please call us to beg for a reasonable price."
Not having Bally's for local sports is a nonstarter for me so I basically have one streaming option.
December 14th, 2021 at 8:52 AM ^
I left DirecTV because it was the single worst customer service experience I've ever had. During that period (about 2 years) they once "accidentally" gave my service to my neighbor, cut off my service (including internet), then took THREE days to come back and fix it. I use "accidentally" because the service guy spent almost a day out there trying to fix it, couldn't get it to work, and had to go on to a new job. This was his solution. (As it was explained to me by the next guy who cleaned up the mess)
Because they were/are a subsidiary of ATT it was a nightmare to get anyone on the phone. They subcontract all of their service people so there's no actual care.
Say what you will about Comcast/Xfinity, and I can say a lot there, at least there is a physical location that I can go into and demand quarter.
And agree on Ballys. I have to add the Sports tier but it's one of the few reasons I continue on with Comcast.
December 14th, 2021 at 3:40 PM ^
DirecTV customer service was quite good for a long time. Then AT&T bought them and destroyed it.
December 14th, 2021 at 3:40 PM ^
DirecTV customer service was quite good for a long time. Then AT&T bought them and destroyed it.
December 14th, 2021 at 9:17 AM ^
I've been streaming Bally's for free so I haven't felt the need to move away from YTTV and the extended sports package yet.
December 14th, 2021 at 11:13 AM ^
Spill.
December 14th, 2021 at 11:30 AM ^
I downloaded the app on my Apple TV and created an account and have been streaming Red Wings games ever since. It never required any payment data.
December 14th, 2021 at 1:29 PM ^
The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing Apple TV he didn't exist.
December 14th, 2021 at 4:58 PM ^
So Apple TV is dancing with the devil but YTTV isn't?
December 14th, 2021 at 8:38 AM ^
JMo, you couldn't be more wrong about that price not existing. The OP is talking about DirectTv Stream, which is a streaming service, not the traditional DirecTV satellite service. I have had this service, which used to be called AT&T TV, for about 12 months, and it is the best content-related decision i have made. It has the look & feel of traditional TV, has every channel I could conceivably want (including the Bally Sports channels), and works great on mobile devices as well as traditional TVs. And my price is actually closer to $80 per month. Maybe prices will go up in the near term (they likely will), but for now I find it to be very reasonable.
December 14th, 2021 at 8:47 AM ^
Oh I think you may have just missed my point. Or maybe I did. The comment, as I read it, was that they should stop with a lower nickel/dime price, set a higher price point, and then save the consumer from this whole negotiation ploy thing. My point was that simply there is no such price for service. If they were to set it for $100 more than it is currently, tomorrow. (Obvious hyperbole) Once they believe they could get $5 more they would, and they would use ESPN (or any other number of necessary channels) upping their carrier fee to justify the change.
December 14th, 2021 at 8:53 AM ^
I have YTTV - is AT&T much better/worse? I would love to get Bally's. Kind of insane it's been 2 years since I could watch our local sports teams. At $80 / mo., we're getting closer back into the Comcast price territory. The main advantage in my mind is that I don't need a box for each TV.
December 14th, 2021 at 11:54 AM ^
DirecTV Stream/AT&T is $85 per month if you want RSNs. That comes with a 20 hour DVR. You can add unlimited DVR for $10 per month.
December 14th, 2021 at 8:34 AM ^
AT&T will never get a dime of my money. I had directv for years but ditched as soon as they were bought out. I've bounced around to slingtv, playstation tv, youtube tv, hulu live, always switching when prices got jacked up. Using fubo right now and no complaints other than the broadcast stream sometimes stops during commercial breaks which requires me to switch channels and go back to resume the broadcast. Much better than hulu live which limited the total number of devices I could use (I take a lot of weekend trips with the family and hate that I can't log in from any old smart tv along the way). It'll be fubo for me until march madness is over.
December 14th, 2021 at 9:07 AM ^
Yeah I'm out forever on them too. I thought for a minute about ATT Uverse but my DirecTV experience (above) was so bad, I just can't do it.
I had a Google guy come out to my house one day a few years back and I agreed to let them wire me to their network. I really considered that initial YouTube TV deal (it was like $35/$40 for everything), and they claimed it would stay there for a long time. And within a year they moved it up.
That was kinda the big flag to me that ala carte and cord cutting from the major providers would be a consumer win was basically a myth.
So, like a jilted lover I went back to my love/hate 20 year relationship with Comcast, and I split my "luxury" services (Paramount, HBO, Hulu, etc) with my brother.
December 14th, 2021 at 11:38 AM ^
Yeah, there's no magic bullets. At this point I think the best you can do is figure out which company is actively trying to gain market share in your area and cash in while the going is good. You guys had bad experiences with AT&T and DirecTV here in this thread and I have no doubts that it sucked dealing with them in those cases. In my area it's now flipped, Comcast controls the market and sucks to deal with, and AT&T is running around handing out deals to go on fiber. Surely down the road tides will shift again.
December 14th, 2021 at 12:44 PM ^
While comcast sucks, they've not to brazenly try and steal from me like AT&T has by overbilling and reporting fraudulent disputed charges to credit collectors. Fuck those guys (and gals).
December 14th, 2021 at 10:18 AM ^
Yes Hillbilly. Fuck ATT, they are cunts. They lie about charges and threaten to sue you if you don’t pay false charges. If I could put a voodoo hex on ATT I would.
December 14th, 2021 at 8:43 AM ^
The problem is that the big companies in control of the channels are forcing them to bundle....they CAN'T offer them a la carte because, in this case, Disney wants them to be bundled all together forcing every single customer to pay into it, even if they don't watch it. It's the same problem that existed with cable and now trickling down to the streaming companies. If Disney doesn't get them to bundle it, they probably lose half the customers using the streaming sites (or more) who would choose to not receive those channels.
December 14th, 2021 at 8:48 AM ^
I get that with the big providers. But with Bally Sports I don't see how there isn't a path for more revenue for both Bally's and the streaming service by offering it more broadly.
December 14th, 2021 at 8:51 AM ^
Bally is supposed to be offering a stand-alone service in the near future. Given they control 3 of the 4 prof sports teams in the region, and likely the same of many regions nationally, they have a captive consumer base. They're likely going to do a thing where you pay like $200 to watch the entire season kind of thing; like MLB network.
They wanted to bump the price significantly on YouTube TV; which would ahve impacted every single customer for basically a single channel.
December 14th, 2021 at 10:45 AM ^
That would be great, as long as they allowed out of area subscriptions, or viewing. I'd love to watch the Wings, but the only real option out of state is the NHL Ticket thing (which I'll probably do post-football season).
December 14th, 2021 at 12:17 PM ^
They aren't offering any out of area viewing/teams. They're plan is to charge $20 per month or around $200 per year for you to get your local RSN.
For someone like me that would mean I'm paying $20 per month to watch one team (Pacers). No way I'm signing up for that.
December 14th, 2021 at 10:15 AM ^
Right when streaming services became I thing, I knew that cable people inevitably would switch back to cable at some point. Most people watch a variety of channels and shows so going back to cable is going to be more economical for most people than paying for basically every streaming service
December 14th, 2021 at 10:26 AM ^
In the end, it's just how it gets delivered to your house. I wired my house with CAT 6 so I never want to go back to cable. As wifi continues to improve, streaming makes the most sense for the future.
December 14th, 2021 at 10:48 AM ^
The ease of canceling and restarting service is a big differentiator. I canceled YTTV a week ago because I knew I wouldn't be using it over the holidays. I can do Trials for the next 1-2 games and then I'll re-up with something in August. That's a lot of money I don't need to spend for the next 8 months.
Try doing that with cable. Seriously.
December 14th, 2021 at 2:15 PM ^
LOL no. The only thing cable TV and it's streaming equivalents like YouTube TV have going for them is live sports. But if you don't care about (legal) live sports, you can get a much bigger variety of content for much cheaper through a few streaming services. You don't need to pay for basically every streaming service to do it.