Semi-OT: The Olympian and the (UM) CrossFitter

Submitted by oriental andrew on

http://online.wsj.com/articles/the-olympian-and-the-crossfitter-1406156…

Interesting article in the WSJ yesterday about Julie Foucher, and UM alumna and med student.  She placed 2nd in the crossfit games in 2012, took a year off to focus on med school, and is now training for the next crossfit games.  She's employed the assistance of former Olympic gymnast, Dominique Moceanu who, incidentally, is married to a doctor and former NCAA national champion gymnast from osu.  

I don't crossfit, but I keep fairly fit (run 4-5 miles a couple times a week, lift a few times a week).  These guys blow me away, and pretty awesome that a UM alumna is one of the best in the world.

 

Leaders And Best

July 25th, 2014 at 11:58 AM ^

Not a fan of CrossFit but whatever motivation people need to get in shape I am not going to hate on. Kipping pull-ups are an abomination though. Kenny Powers, your thoughts?

 

youn2948

July 25th, 2014 at 12:05 PM ^

I do crossfit(don't blab about it much), I'd say more of the people at my gym are quiet and shy not the stereotype or I'd probably be driven crazy too.

Anywho, pullups suck, you start out unable to do any and it is a long path to get the arm strength(unless you've tried doing them since you were in middle school), specific muscle strength etc.  Can only do like 10 straight now.  Kipping makes it possible as it's continous motion, doing strict is a ton harder.  I don't have the motion down yet really.

Those people in the games are totally insane/in great shape.

a2_electricboogaloo

July 25th, 2014 at 12:16 PM ^

The thing is though, I feel like kipping pull-ups emphasize people learning how to manipulate the exercise in order to minimize the effort needed, rather than make the workout difficult and maximize gainz.  When I did CF, I always avoided kipping, and if I couldn't do any more pull ups, I'd grab a resistence band to make it a bit easier.  I kind of emphasizes one of the core concepts of crossfit I'm at odds with, the idea that what is most important is being efficient and fast with your workout, rather than going slower and getting the most out of it.  This idea causes people to focus on rushing rather then slowing down and focusing on correct form, and bad form with heavy weights almost invariebly leads to injuries.

Monocle Smile

July 25th, 2014 at 12:18 PM ^

Kipping does make the motion easier.

This means it is a terrible way to work the muscles involved (time under tension) and will result in noob gains and nothing more. That's why it's ridiculed.

The Games athletes are impressive, but they didn't get that way doing Crossfit. They got that way doing mostly conventional strength training and metcons (or were college athletes who couldn't make the cut despite being fit). And more PEDs than anyone wants to admit.

a2_electricboogaloo

July 25th, 2014 at 12:28 PM ^

I know this is probably not a new realization for anyone else here, but it just struck me that the Crossfit Games are a brilliant advertising scheme.  You put these world class (or cloes to world class) athletes on TV and have them do wildly impressive feats of athleticism, under the banner of a workout system/gym.  Essentially saying that "hey if you work out here and pay XXX dollars a month, you can do this", despite the fact that most of the people their got to that point athletically using systems that were not crossfit (not to say that all did, but I would definitely guess that most did)

All Day

July 25th, 2014 at 3:54 PM ^

Kinda. It's not like HQ gets $$ for every new person who signs up at a local "box" or gym - they are independant franchises who benefit.

Regarding a few other things you guys were discussing, you're right, there isn't the greatest oversight in trainers and coaches. However, that one weekend course that people take has like a 40-50% fail rate, from what I remember, and the majority  of the coaches I've ever had have also had additional experiences, inclduing BA's in exercise science, PT school, USAW weightlifting and powerlifting experience and courses, etc... I would also argue that the buyer beware caveat applies to picking a coach just like it would picking a personal trainer (which also has very low oversight in credentials).

Lastly, I know the kip gets a hard time, and if you only ever do the kip (which, btw, is hard as hell to learn) you wont get stronger. I train using strict, kipping, butterfly, weighted, negative, ring rows, muscle ups, and probably more. The kip allows you do do a few different things, namely it works muscular endurance over strength, which I think we all would admit is also beneficial.

 

I don't drink the kool-aide and I don't love everything HQ does, but I've had mostly positive experiences in my two years. I've never been seriously hurt or injured and I have knowledgable and experienced coaches. I'm the strongest I've ever been, I'm more knowledgable about the body and lifting, I've cut body fat, and I've reduced a lot of injuries (bad knee, ankle issues, and flexibility). It's not for everyone and that's cool, but I think it unfairly gets a bad rap compared to a lot of other activities.

Monocle Smile

July 25th, 2014 at 4:11 PM ^

But this:

I think it unfairly gets a bad rap compared to a lot of other activities.

is something I can't agree with.

Crossfit is rapidly becoming the Scientology of fitness. The organization (and most Crossfitters) can't handle criticism of any kind, can't take a joke, and consider lifters and runners who don't do Crossfit to be "inferior." It gets a bad rep because the dudes who founded Crossfit and write the programming spout stuff about exercise science and methodology (and nutrition) that's just straight-up factually in error. It's one thing for armchair couch potatoes to hate on a fitness program. It's quite another for renowned athletic trainers and strength coaches to test-run affiliations with Crossfit only to back out and have nothing good to say.

The kip allows you do do a few different things, namely it works muscular endurance over strength, which I think we all would admit is also beneficial.

And this is another thing to consider: goals. There's nothing about "working muscular endurance" with an improper pull-up that contributes to my goals, so I'd never do anything of the sort. But it goes beyond that. Crossfit doesn't seem focused on ANY kind of goal other than exercising for its own sake. That's fine if exercise is in fact your goal (and you seem happy with it, so feel free to ignore my crustiness), but you're (the royal "you," not GeeVee) not an athlete just because you work out.

All Day

July 25th, 2014 at 4:25 PM ^

If you want to hate on CF HQ, be my guest. I have a lot of problems with the things they do. But I think most people (not saying you) struggle to differentiate between crossfit.com and what happens in a local box. In my gym we run 4-6 week cycles of lifts and movements with specific progressions. And if you want to do something else (we have a lot of power lifting and oly competitors at my gym) you are free to do so. My comment was more directed to the "drink the kool-aid bros" and "first rule of cf" meme groups - which is a seperate discussion.

 

I think I hit on the goals thing a bit above, but sometimes peoples goals aren't actually good for them (or realistic). I never would have walked into a gym and said "I want to crank out 50 kipping pullups" or whatever, but having a training goal and plan has lead to new and different ones. I think my programming has also made me more "balanced". For instance, I ended up with a lot of imbalance between by chest and lats because of the HS football coaching and Planet Fitness mentality I had most of my life. I've upped my bench, but dont have that terrible hunched posture anymore. My endurance is better, despite never really running. Flexibility is better. 

So maybe the majority of training isn't specific to one goal, but it can create a more well-rounded individual including all components of physical fitness.

Monocle Smile

July 25th, 2014 at 4:53 PM ^

But I think most people (not saying you) struggle to differentiate between crossfit.com and what happens in a local box.

I feel this is grounds for yet another valid criticism of Crossfit and not necessarily a shortcoming of its opponents. For the record, the "local box" near me is a nearly-condemned garage filled with people who don't know their asses from their elbows. There's another box a bit further away full of former professional powerlifters and personal trainers. In fact, I'm planning on taking a series of Olympic lifting courses there soon. I understand the differences as well as anyone.

So maybe the majority of training isn't specific to one goal, but it can create a more well-rounded individual including all components of physical fitness.

I think I understand what you're trying to say, but that last part, to me, is meaningless talk. IMO, "fitness" presumes goals and how far you've progressed towards those goals. I'm a soccer player and I primarily play indoor. I don't need marathon-runner endurance. I need hockey-player endurance: the ability to go hard for a bunch of intervals over a period of time. My workouts need to reflect this. So when someone says "my endurance is better," I don't know what they mean. If you mean to say that you get less tired during a workout or physical activity, then that means something, but you can get that from strength training alone. But take this all with a grain of salt: I'm not talking about beginners here. You'll get noob gains regardless if you just start a fitness regimen. I'm talking about what happens when you inevitably plateau. Crossfit programming doesn't generally allow for progression; if the coaches at your box understand this and write their own programming to break through plateaus, then they're working counter to Crossfit and I applaud them.

a2_electricboogaloo

July 25th, 2014 at 12:09 PM ^

I did crossfit for a couple months last year, and I really enjoyed a lot of it—great atmosphere, good trainers, nice people, awesome motivation, etc.  But in the end I just really disliked the core concepts, specifically doing heavy and complex lifts for time.  It's a good way to get in shape, but an even better way to get hurt, and for someone like me who has messed up my back in the past, I couldn't take the risk.  

I feel like kipping pull ups are like the signature "crossfit is stupid" thing people think of, and while they look ridiculous, they probably won't hurt you.  They stupidest thing they do is doing things like Snatches and Clean and Jerks for time.  After a few minutes, even the better lifters displayed a marked loss in form, and when you do heavy complex lifts with bad form, bad thing happen.  And even a gym like mine—where the trainers were pretty vigilant about form—isn't safe from that happening, when it is the core concept of the workout seems to neglect form.

If it wasn't for the risk of injury (and the fact that it's really expensive), I would've loved to keep doing it.  It's a lot of fun, and fits in with my competitive nature.

a2_electricboogaloo

July 25th, 2014 at 12:21 PM ^

I do as well.  I took a lot of what I learned in crossfit and adapted into my workouts.  I'm now doing a fairly standard 3x5, but I throw in some crossfit stuff for warm ups/more aerobic stuff on off days.  But when I lift heavy, I take my time.  A lot of CF workouts are pretty good/entertaining though.

That being said, the stuff that those competitve crossfitters can do in competition is incredibly impressive.

a2_electricboogaloo

July 25th, 2014 at 12:33 PM ^

Yeah, one of the biggest things with crossfit is the gym makes a big difference.  It's incredibly easy to become a crossfit certified trainer (it only takes a weekend seminar, if I'm not mistaken), so if you go to a bad gym, it could end up that the person who is instructing you knows less about the lifts that you're about to do than you do

gbdub

July 25th, 2014 at 3:12 PM ^

Haven't tried it personally (too damn lazy), but from all I've heard it's a decent program for the motivated weekend warrior type to get "in shape", particularly compared to people who don't work out at all. Fun, high effort, quick initial gains (as long as you don't hurt yourself).

But the workouts aren't really targeted enough to make real gains (after a point) toward any particular goal. Like you said, if you lift heavy, you want to go slow - that's how you get better at lifting, not by doing CF type exercises. I think that (and some questionably safe exercises) are what make "serious" fitness buffs sneer at it.

Monocle Smile

July 25th, 2014 at 12:26 PM ^

I agree that the Olympic lifts for time is a fantastic way to drain your synovial fluid, but anatomically speaking (as a non-expert), it's the box jumps that get to me. Box jumps for high reps and time (especially when you JUMP DOWN onto a hard floor) make your Achilles tendons hate you and then explode.

The intent of Crossfit is great...barbell and kettlebell workouts in a group atmosphere with coaches included and programs pre-written. I just feel that the way Crossfit goes about executing these concepts is disastrous. The programming is randomized crap, there's zero quality control over the coaches, and HQ makes all sorts of inflated and/or false claims about the effectiveness of their product, the performances and backgrounds of their athletes, and nutrition.

WolvinLA2

July 25th, 2014 at 9:48 PM ^

Whenever CrossFit comes up on this blog, you go on a rampage against it. No one ever talks down on your routines, but you get so defensive about CrossFit. Did a crossfitter bang your wife or something?

Most of the info you have on CrossFit is either dead wrong or stuff that varies widely from gym to gym. On a box jump, for example, you explode up and step down. I've never jumped off a box on a box jump. My big gripe with you is that you have such strong opinions on such incorrect data. But I've gone into detail on this with you before, and I refuse to again.

GoWings2008

July 25th, 2014 at 2:16 PM ^

And I've softened my stance on Crossfit for that exact reason.  Despite the fact that I see it as glorified calisthenics, it is a group fueled workout and keeps people going to the gym, which is a good thing.  The one exercise I saw at my gym that completely turned me off to it, however, was someone teaching lunges with a 45 pound bar with weight on it over your head.  Sorry, I like my shoulders where they are, thankyouverymuch. 

Fittest on the planet though?  I think that's a stretch.

bronxblue

July 25th, 2014 at 1:04 PM ^

Or you could just have had a better experience/be better suited for it than others?  

I've never understood the "haters gonna hate" argument with stuff like working out.  I think CF is great for some people, but it would drive me crazy because (a) I'm more a runner than a lifter, and (b) when I do lift, the LAST thing I want is people yelling at me to do it for time or trying to get my "pumped."  But again, I like running marathons, which seems crazy to people and train basically by myself or occassionally my wife and/or daughter in a running stroller.  So different strokes for different folks.  And I've known people who can't run more than a mile before their knees and ankles hurt who can run through crazy CF workouts with minimal problems.  Maybe they're just wired that way, or maybe they have bad form running because of poor shoes, muscle weakness, etc.  But whatever, they do what works for them, and outside of the random "skinny runner" quips everyone is pretty respectful of each other.

But the article above noted that you are more likely to be hurt doing some exercises commonly found in WODs than other exercise routines.  Sure, if you have a good gym with good trainers, you'll be fine and no more likely to be injured than any other workout.  But I've heard stories of some bad boxes here in NYC where guys and gals just keep pushing themselves beyond what is safe.  

 

Commie_High96

July 26th, 2014 at 11:35 AM ^

In some ways you are right, I run a lot in Crossfit and I hate every minute of it . When I run more than 1000 meters I get bored. It also hurts my knees. But the article cited seems to assume you are doing max lifts in wods when the dynamic (fast) lifts are at 50% of Max . Lifting heavy we do 1 or two reps every 2-4 mins.

Also the cultish attitude and "judgey-ness" some cross fitters exhibit doesn't help. But there is also a lot of irrational hatred from people who don't take the time to become knowledgeable. I'll tell you that I know a lot of totally broken down runners whose joints have fallen apart in their 30d and 40s from years of running. If you don't want to get injured at your sport, swim.

oriental andrew

July 26th, 2014 at 6:46 PM ^

on being bored when running - i get dreadfully bored when running on a treadmill or on a track.  I need to be going somewhere.  When you go out to the street or trail and run 20 minutes away from home or your car, well, you need to get back somehow, so you may as well run so you get there as fast as possible.  On a track or treadmill, too easy to give into the temptation to just stop whenever. 

On the knees hurting - what kind of shoes do you wear?  I'm frankly a big believer in minimalist shoes for many people.  I've run probably a couple hundred miles in my Merrell Trail Gloves which are anatomical shaped (narrow heel counter, wide toe box) and have zero heel to toe drop with no cushion. This is in stark contrast to conventional running shoes which are heavily cushioned and have a severe heel to toe drop (meaning the heel is much thicker than the forefoot).  biomechanics research shows that wearing these kinds of shoes (or running barefoot - which I don't do) actually supports a mid-foot or fore-foot strike, rather than a more "conventional" heel strike.  This has the benefit of distributing the impact through your foot and lessening the jarring impact through your ankles, knees, and back. 

It is important to transition slowly into minimalist running, as it utilizes your calves much more and stretches your achilles more as well.  Do some research if you go this route, but one of my good friends went this route after we talked several times about it and he's now a convert.  He's gone from conventional running shoes and dealing with knee and back pain after long runs, to minimal shoes and much less knee and back pain.  He attributes it to the shoes and different running style. 

Also, minimalist shoes are good for crossfit, particularly lifting where it's beneficial to have your feet completely flat. 

Commie_High96

July 26th, 2014 at 11:00 PM ^

I appreciate your comments. I wear those New Balance minimalist shoes. They are the most durable shoes I have ever worn for anything. Three years later I still have the same pair. Wish my expensive shoes I wear to court and for meetings held up as well. Still feel like crap after running, but I am a 6 foot dude that weighs 242 (not fat just 54 inch shoulders, built like a power lifter). I have toes that don't work in the glove shoes. They are my crossfit shoes. My Scottish/Norwegian viking ancestry built me for carrying heavy shit a short distance, not made like a Kenyan.

Farnn

July 25th, 2014 at 1:03 PM ^

That article is pretty biased and while some parts are correct about some gyms, saying every single crossfit gym is terrible is a reach.  The lack of requirements to open a gym makes it really easy for gyms to be bad, but there are some crossfit gyms that have been opened by long time personal trainers with a ton of experience and training.  You just need to be smart when choosing a gym.  Here's an article from the owner of the gym I go to on what to look for in a good crossfit gym and what to avoid.  http://www.insidetheaffiliate.com/blog/2014/7/7/this-is-what-you-need-t…

Also, the last paragraph in that article is hilarious:

I’ve showed this article to a couple people who have been in CrossFit for a little while, and I’ve noticed a slightly disturbing trend. There is a sort of “brainwashing” that occurs from the first time a person steps into a box (CrossFit-speak for “gym”) that creates an “us vs. them” mentality. Boxes have attempted to combat the bad reputation of CrossFit by saying that other gyms do bad stuff but their gym is different, their coaches know good form, their gym focuses on safety. This is simply not true and every single thing that I’ve posted in this article refers to EVERY SINGLE GYM THAT FOLLOWS CROSSFIT. There are no exceptions, if you’re following the WODs, it’s not good for you, it’s not safe, and you’re putting your health in danger. Take it for what it’s worth, but please believe that your box is NOT different, no matter what your coach says.

Blerg

July 25th, 2014 at 12:58 PM ^

Holy Crap! My freshman year at UM I fell in love with a cute girl in my chemistry lecture (and by that I mean I thought she was pretty and never got the balls to talk to her).  I never saw her after that first semester.  After seeing this, I am 97.235% sure that girl is Julie Foucher.

Cool Story Bro.

gbdub

July 25th, 2014 at 3:04 PM ^

She was in Tau Beta Pi (meaning she was a smart engineer before she got to med school). I led her electee group (sort of like a pledge group with a senior leader) - she was a sophmore at the time. She was always fit, but the difference between what she looked like then and now is ridiculous. Clearly a young lady with a hell of a lot of discipline and drive.

All Day

July 25th, 2014 at 3:50 PM ^

This has been the most level-headed and civilized Crossfit discussion this board has ever had. Kudos. 

 

For those interested, Foucher is currently in 5th place out of 42 at the Games right now, definitely in striking distance for first - would not shock anybody if she won the whole thing.

 

EDIT: Also, Steve Hamming, a man from Grand Rapids won the Masters 55-59 division this week.

falco_alba15

July 25th, 2014 at 5:56 PM ^

On and off for about two years. I really have to say that it's an individual experience and no one can really quantify what happens. On the one hand, I've enjoyed it, and I've really been focusing on building my Olympic lifts, but it's not my kool-aid, swimming is. My wife, on the other hand, really got into it, lost a lot of weight, built up to pull-ups and completing Murph RX, and dead lifting over 300 lbs. She's never been seriously hurt, either. My box owner lost over 120 lbs doing it and her husband is extremely fit. Their daughter is a nationally ranked junior Olympic lifter. I've seen how well it can work.



Some people hate it. Some people love it. I've seen success stories. I've seen failure stories. The adage applies - don't knock it until you try it.



Julie Foucher competes in the Central East (Central Beast) region, so I got to see her compete in Cincinnati during regionals. She's phenomenal.