Russillo & McShay Discuss UM/Harbaugh
Segment from 41:13-46:25. These are McShay's thoughts.
1. Alums McShay has talked to see fed up.
2. Defense plays too much man to man, needs to diversify. Offenses catching up.
3. Scrapped the original offensive system that worked better than the current system.
4. Thought all of Harbaugh's recruiting would be better.
5. Wouldn't be surprised if Harbaugh leaves soon. Appears checked out. No source, gut feeling.
I like both of these guys. Interesting to hear their opinions on the state of the program. McShay works directly with Brian Griese every week so I would assume some Intel comes from him and his network.
September 26th, 2019 at 11:59 AM ^
So, Oakland in play again? We need Schefter's opinion!
September 26th, 2019 at 12:07 PM ^
For the NFL, would they even want him anymore?
I assume he has lost much of his shine that he had when he was in SF. He was extremely successful there, so he has a proven track record in the NFL of building a winner going for him, but he is also a little at odds with how the NFL is trending offensively.
September 26th, 2019 at 12:18 PM ^
I doubt there would be as much interest, but there are still major style of play differences from the NFL to College and organizational structure that’s more suited to what Harbaugh is good at.
I’m not trying to pile on, but recruiting and retention lately has been...not great. That’s one thing he gets to avoid. Also, the NFL game is not and will continue to not be as hyper-aggressive as the college game, because of salary caps and roster sizes. Harbaugh continues to be allergic to tempo and the general thought of scoring as many points of possible, and that’s still fine in the NFL.
I could see Miami sniffing around, without doubt.
September 26th, 2019 at 2:42 PM ^
You couldn't be more wrong. The NFL wants him, and badly.
September 26th, 2019 at 5:38 PM ^
Huh? My whole point was the NFL would still want him. Maybe not as much as in 2015 but there would be definitely interest.
September 27th, 2019 at 8:18 AM ^
You've got to think Miami only takes him if Michigan wants him gone. Ross might be politically despicable, but he isn't going to snipe our coach.
September 26th, 2019 at 12:28 PM ^
Harbaugh is the opposite of Saban and seems more fit for the NFL while Saban is a better fit for the college game. Saban seems to enjoy the recruiting aspect of college football more than Harbaugh. Saban is one of the best college coaches ever, but he is a better recruiter than coach IMO. I think Harbaugh prefers to have a team put together for him, like in the NFL, so he can solely concentrate on coaching and nothing else.
September 26th, 2019 at 12:42 PM ^
So now we're repeating all the lazy NFL talk from 2014?
I'm surprised you didn't add that Oakland is in play or that his wife prefers California.
September 26th, 2019 at 12:54 PM ^
The NFL treated him like shit. That's why here's here.
September 26th, 2019 at 8:40 PM ^
Well, now he’s being treated like shit by many here, so maybe the right NFL situation will seem more friendly.
As for Michigan fans, we’re fucked because after the way the past three hires have been treated, who would want to come to this environment? The expectations are too high for the ability to recruit, and retain (between weather and academics).
September 26th, 2019 at 9:14 PM ^
"between weather and academics"
"between weather, academics, and player salaries"
Fixed it for you.
September 26th, 2019 at 3:56 PM ^
Doesn't EVERYONE prefer California?
I do...
September 26th, 2019 at 10:20 PM ^
After 22 years in that dismal lake-effect climate, I do, too.
September 27th, 2019 at 4:50 PM ^
Coming from someone who lived in San Diego for 10+ years and Durham for the past 7 years, I can say that my life in Durham, NC is better. Southern CA is indeed beautiful and the weather is unbelievable. But there are drawbacks such as extremely high cost of real estate and high taxes. If you are independently wealthy then there is probably not a better place to live. If you work for a living and want to live in a decent neighborhood, get used to working to pay your monthly mortgage and property taxes. You'll have very little left to do other stuff like save for your kids' college education, go out for dinner, travel, etc. Harbaugh doesn't need to worry about the common person's financial issues so CA being expensive doesn't matter much to him.
September 26th, 2019 at 12:54 PM ^
Saban is not one of the best college coaches ever. He is one of the best recruiters ever, and he may have been getting help with that. Most of the time Alabama out talents the other team. When another team appraches their level of skill, Saban is often outcoached. See last year's championship as an example.
September 26th, 2019 at 1:34 PM ^
Saban is one of the best college coaches ever. Saying otherwise, quite honestly, is silly. What then makes a great college coach?
You can say that every great coach who wins multiple championships has superior talent; thus, are great recruiters.
After Bryant and before Saban, Bama was not very good.
September 26th, 2019 at 2:09 PM ^
I mean Gene Stallings wasn’t a slouch. Hall of famer and won a championship at Bama.
September 26th, 2019 at 4:13 PM ^
I believe on the surface level this appears enticing, but I think he is massively overrated as a coach.
It is, in every single way, a totally different game. Not just on the field but off the field.
It's like saying Bill Gates would have also been a billionaire oil man or war industrialist.
The game, the physicality, the big data, the MULTI-BILLION dollar contract just in the Big-Ten itself, the management, everything is rapidly advancing. Gerald Ford became a US president. You think that would still happen today?
Saban is likely a pretty good coach, but better than his coaching is his "process", more important to building a full-potential season than are his actually x's & o's strategy or innovation. But his head-start and unethical behavior is clear common knowledge. A good coach but not particularly innovative, even his defenses (what he coaches most) would be torched by good spread QBs and it took him a long time to adapt and see the writing on the wall for his own offense. The talent-gap, and the character-gap that Saban plays with is as large as it gets, even within the SEC.
Don't discount that his university has completely surpassed what PSU did for JoePa, allow him free and unbridled reign.
There are coaches who ethically would not commit the same actions he took. And they will not build the same program because of it.
A win-at-all-costs manager is not necessarily the "best coach".
The inventor of Insulin sold the patent for $1 because he believed a doctor should never profit off of illness and medicine should be available to everyone. Corporation profiting Billions annually does not make the CEOs the "best healthcare providers".
September 26th, 2019 at 2:28 PM ^
Saban is great at managing and coaching his 5*s. But he does very little without cheating. Oversigning got him a fully stocked team with great depth and then bagmen keep it coming.
September 26th, 2019 at 2:44 PM ^
Couldn't I make the same claim with every great program? You think Bama is the only dirty one?
September 26th, 2019 at 3:25 PM ^
No proof that he cheats
September 26th, 2019 at 4:37 PM ^
So Wisconsin has more talent than Michigan?
September 26th, 2019 at 5:57 PM ^
Um, did it look like they had less talent? This board’s reliance on largely irrelevant recruiting rankings is absurd.
September 26th, 2019 at 1:05 PM ^
The comparison between Harbaugh and Saban is an interesting one because Michigan fans want Alabama level success for what Harbaugh is being paid, but I think the history of the two speaks volumes about their abilities.
Saban: was able to make MSU somewhat respectable but felt he had a definite ceiling on where he could take the program. Later on, D'Antonio proved there was a higher ceiling capable. And while D'Antonio has had his fair share of issues of who he has recruited, I think it is safe to say, MSU is not a rampant recruiting cheating machine either. Saban then took LSU to the National Championship, but we all know LSU's willingness to look the other way on the recruiting honesty issue. Saban then goes to the NFL where he has to rely primarily on coaching ability because the gap between the best and worst in the NFL is much smaller than college. He performs horribly. He lands back at Alabama and surprise, the program which has been dirty since before time in recruiting turns Saban into one of the best college coaches ever.
Harbaugh: Starts off at a smaller school and and turns a doormat of a program into a respectable team. He translates that success into a job at Stanford. I doubt many would point at Stanford and call them recruiting cheaters. But still is able to turn that program into a highly successful program. He turns that success into an NFL opportunity. Given the same strictures as Saban had to deal with, Harbaugh is actually very successful in the NFL. He then goes to Michigan, which yes, does what it needs to get recruits, but is still not on a level Alabama is willing to go.
Between the two, I think Harbaugh is the only one who can actually recruit and coach. Saban is a product of a system which will allow him to have a built in advantage over everyone else and only then does he excel. He still get's it done, so I don't want to completely discredit his capability as a recuriter and coach, but there is a stark difference between Saban and Harbaugh.
I wonder if some of Harbaugh's loss of enthusiasm has to do with the reality setting in that the college game has continued to accelerate towards the top teams willing to cheat the most are rewarded and everyone is in the next tier down. It may be similar to the rumors heard about why Beilein left. Supposedly Beilein got sick of trying to do it the right way in a system which supported the cheaters.
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September 26th, 2019 at 1:42 PM ^
Really??? Harbaugh is a better recruiter/coach combo? So he would either A - have to have his teams outplay more talented teams, since he is a better coach or B just completely out recruit these teams. And he is not doing either. Saban is one of the best to ever roam the sidelines of college football all together. Yes he lost to Clemson last year, who was arguably just as talented if not more. But the product he puts out there every week is head and shoulders above what we see out of Michigan. Michigan is 5 years in with Harbaugh, a roster full of his recruits and players and we have just witnessed one of the more frustrating/disappointing 4 week stretches that there has been in Michigan football in terms of expectations vs reality. Harbaugh is a good coach, and does a good job at recruiting. But he is not comparable to Saban, and its laughable to even try to put him in the same conversation as him. In the 10 years prior to Saban, Bama had 3 double digit win seasons, they have had at least 10 wins in all but Sabans first year, that's 11 consecutive years. Bama does play a pretty cupcake non conference schedule most years, but they also play in the deepest conference too.
September 26th, 2019 at 9:35 PM ^
Pretty good picture of the reality. One thing more I'd add. We just say 'academics,' but it's a large piece of the puzzle. It's not just needing recruits to reach a certain level of academics to get in. It's the expectations for once they get to school. Some programs fully embrace that they are running a football program that happens to be at a school. OSU is one of those. Alabama is one of those. I'm pretty certain Michigan is not. So how many high school prospects believe what they're told, true or not: at the very least, if you want to, you can get a degree with minimal effort and the alumni base will take care of your future. Versus the prospect that at some schools you're expected to do that school shit. You get paid and it's the easy road. Also, how many programs consistently abide by allowable hours and off-season contact rules?
September 27th, 2019 at 10:45 AM ^
laughable, saban is a belichick disciple, so he learned how to asses and analyze talent, how to take away a teams star, how to game plan, how to protect his kids so that they can play to their strength and not be caught in sticky situations, practice, and strength and condition from him, and added his own spin. alabama is a well oiled machine, and if he was truly in over his head, he would flame out like coker did at miami. A coach doesnt maintain the level of success that he has if he was falling ass backwards into national championships, and double digit wins. you see what happens when he goes up against his former assistants he beats them
September 26th, 2019 at 1:03 PM ^
No, he would still be very very attractive to any NFL team. He has a phenomenal NFL record and still a very good overall college record. He turned a total crap NFL team into an almost SB winner and after he left, it turned to total crap again. An NFL team passing on Jim Harbaugh would be complete idiocy.
September 26th, 2019 at 1:18 PM ^
Hue Jackson got hired multiple times. Freddie Kitchens is a head coach. Someone would hire Harbaugh in a heartbeat.
September 26th, 2019 at 1:37 PM ^
I think the fact the Harbaugh can’t get it done says a lot more about this program than it does about his ability to coach.
September 26th, 2019 at 8:26 PM ^
This is my overriding concern. Between population shifts and SEC recruiting tactics, I think the recruiting potential for UM has diminished and JH realizes the mountain still requires a ton of energy to climb.
But WTFK. Hope the team pulls it together and goes on a serious run.
September 27th, 2019 at 4:28 PM ^
Best option: Venables (#3 S&P+ Def in ‘18) + Elliott or Scott (#3 S&P+ Off in ‘18).
Next best: Moorehead (#8 S&P+ Off in ‘18) + Schoop (#1 S&P+ Def in ‘18).
September 26th, 2019 at 12:00 PM ^
To be fair on the "Harbaugh may leave soon" thing, he's been checked out for two years now and hasn't left yet.
It's more possible his soul now inhabits his lovely Ann Arbor home, watching over his new family with pride while the empty shell of a body goes through the motions of every day life. A literal lifeless zombie as a coach.
September 26th, 2019 at 12:07 PM ^
Do you say he checked out two years ago because he stopped being the firey coach who throws his headset and screams at officials?
September 26th, 2019 at 12:11 PM ^
We know we know we know.
After one unsportsmanlike conduct penalty, Harbaugh made a conscious determination to throw away 20 years of his motivational approach to coaching that lead to his immense success on the football field in order to make his dad happy about his display of self-control. And this is all well known by everybody because ______________________________.
That all makes so much sense.
September 26th, 2019 at 12:28 PM ^
It's not a hot take to say that he changed after that year. There is a ton of evidence for it. Amazon followed him around for an entire season and I don't really recall a speech by Jim where he didn't seem distant and just kind of out of it.
At Stanford he was painting his face with blood to fire the team up. That guy is not who is coaching Michigan presently.
September 26th, 2019 at 12:33 PM ^
That is clear. What isn't clear is why that is. Harbaugh distinctly changed beginning in the 2017 season and any concerns regarding the change were kept at bay by people insisting, angrily most times, that we were seeing the result of an intentional change to his demeanor despite their being really no evidence for that assertion. All I know is that since then he has seemed detached, unfocused, and seemingly unprepared and that the team is now displaying all of those characteristics as well.
September 26th, 2019 at 12:35 PM ^
I'm unclear on what you're arguing - whether he did it intentionally or not? Or his reasons for intentionally changing his demeanor?
September 26th, 2019 at 12:38 PM ^
It does not appear to be a change in his demeanor.
It appears to be a change in his level of give-a-damn.
September 26th, 2019 at 12:59 PM ^
And yet...last year the team sure looked focused and prepared as they ran roughshod over most of the conference until they got smacked by OSU to end the year. And his recruiting trailed off so badly that he...signed the #8 class in the country.
Again, people around here want to find some greater reason for the team's struggles than "they aren't as good as we expected" due to numerous factors that are pretty obvious (yet another offensive philosophy change, injuries at certain spots, limited depth on the defensive line).
September 26th, 2019 at 1:14 PM ^
And yet...last year the team sure looked focused and prepared as they ran roughshod over most of the conference until they got smacked by OSU to end the year.
That's revisionist history. The team slumped after PSU last year. Anyone with eyes looked at the Rutgers and Indiana games as huge red flags going into OSU.
September 26th, 2019 at 1:21 PM ^
Indiana has given OSU the blueprint on how to beat us for several years now. Any time that game is close you can be sure OSU is kicking our ass the next week.
We should play them in September. Or never again.
September 26th, 2019 at 1:28 PM ^
The Rutgers game? It was 42-7!
It was 21-7 at the half; 35-7 at the end of three. Besides an 80-yard run by Pacheco in the 1st quarter, Rutgers did squat all game (I think they had 59 passing yards). The game was never in doubt.
I swear, it's like some people have head injuries, and I'm not talking about Harbaugh.
September 26th, 2019 at 1:46 PM ^
I swear, it's like some people have head injuries, and I'm not talking about Harbaugh.
https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/boxscores/2018-11-10-rutgers.html
Four tackles for a loss against Rutgers. Four. It's almost like our DL couldn't get any pressure. Hm... could that have portended a future issue?
Clearly not to Rob and his uninjured head.
September 27th, 2019 at 1:46 PM ^
Are we now making sweeping assumptions about the program based on games against Rutgers?
September 26th, 2019 at 2:30 PM ^
They looked fine after Rutgers; I guess they didn't smack them down by 50, but 42-7 is pretty definitive. And yes, it's not surprising that they might have down a bit emotionally after playing Wisconsin, MSU, and PSU in three successive games. I'd also like to add that OSU looked far worse against Nebraska, MSU, and Maryland before they played UM. So again, revisionist history going on there.
Indiana was a rough game, but again it's very reasonable that gearing up for a big OSU game might have distracted. And IU identifying a flaw in UM's defense wasn't some sign of lack of preparation; I'm sure UM had assumed the horribly flawed OSU defense they saw the past month was the one they'd see, not this suddenly hyper-competent unit.
Again, you're looking for a narrative that isn't there. Michigan just isn't a playoff team this season; it's weird anyone thought they'd be based on all the stuff that was up in the air.
September 26th, 2019 at 2:37 PM ^
The DL got next to no pressure against a SHIT Rutgers OL. There's no narrative. There's only truth, observations, and the ability to remember what actually happened.
The DL started to collapse in that Rutgers game, it got worse against IU, and then... OSU. The DL looked much better up to and including PSU.
September 26th, 2019 at 12:34 PM ^
Where is this guy?