Ride or die with Harbaugh!
November 1st, 2020 at 11:15 PM ^
I don't want to see Harbaugh leave, but it's clear he needs to replace some coaches (cough cough Zordich and Nua) and hire assistants who are ace recruiters. The talent drain on that side of the ball is alarming. A few years ago the second string DL was Winovich, Hurst, Gary and Mone. The second string corners were Long and Hill and Ambry. Today it's, uh...yeah.
November 1st, 2020 at 11:20 PM ^
Why don't you want to see him leave? It's year 6, he has a losing record against our rivals, and he's won absolutely nothing of note.
November 2nd, 2020 at 6:58 AM ^
Because his name is Jim Harbaugh. There's literally no other reason. Any other coach these fans would have ran out of here by now.. but for a scary number of this fanbase, they don't care.. because he's Jim Harbaugh. You can't critique Harbaugh around these people they just won't hear it and we're not "real michigan fans" (VOMIT). Says the fans who clearly root for a head coach more than the program.
November 2nd, 2020 at 7:54 AM ^
A wise man once said "No man is more important than the team, no coach is more important than the team".
A lot of people could really use some time to consider that and what this whole six years has brought.
November 2nd, 2020 at 8:01 AM ^
We're all embarrassing ourselves when using Bo and his chatter as anything to admire or uphold at this point.
Not talking about his football accomplishments either.
November 2nd, 2020 at 8:09 AM ^
I'm not a fan of the constant Bo talk either, but of all things he ever did here that speech should always resonate. One thing he didn't like was being the center of attention.
The Harbaugh worship around here has been out of control from the start, and had put huge blinders on many posters until Saturday.
The next coach needs to just be a coach without the cult of personality.
November 2nd, 2020 at 8:32 AM ^
huh? pure madlibs gibberish. what did you do, run a random bo quote google search?
"those who give up liberty for security deserve neither."
a lot of people could really use some time to consider blah blah blah.
i hate to break it to you, but what you or i think about jim harbaugh really doesn't have fuck all to do with whether this team is successful or not. grow up.
November 2nd, 2020 at 8:40 AM ^
I would have to disagree. The attitude of the fanbase and school makes it's way into the program one way or another.
November 2nd, 2020 at 11:01 AM ^
this is true - i mean, every single sparty fan i know (literally all my social group are sparties) had given up on this season before it started, and really gave up after they got bombed by rutgers. and you sure could see the dejection of the sparty fanbase on the field this past weekend, right?
kinda like when message board dingbats were firing john beilein, back in the day.
November 2nd, 2020 at 3:50 PM ^
A return to 9-10 win seasons? Similar expectations to the late Carr years?
November 2nd, 2020 at 8:24 AM ^
You're right that Jim Harbaugh is getting some extra rope here, but it was well-earned. We all know his pedigree and that should be and is worth a lot. As an alum, more important to me is how he develops these young men.
Is he Urban Meyer or Nick Saban? Absolutely not.
However, I think he started in a much bigger hole than people remember. Our team was a total disaster at the leadership level when he got here. It had Dave Brandon leaving a total mess, and that included virtually every varsity sport he touched. Brady Hoke with no offensive clue, but a good D, and being controlled by said Brandon. Then, a new AD who's pretty much sole job was to bring in a winner. He brought in a guy that nearly every one wanted, but we were in the hole in so many aspects relative to MSU, OSU and even PSU.
Has Harbaugh delivered? I was certainly expecting more, but it's better than the last 2 coaches, and up until Saturday, I absolutely felt like we were finally digging ourselves out of the hole. He is starting to feel some heat. He knows it and it's totally appropriate, but I'm not interested in changing unless we clearly have a better option.
November 2nd, 2020 at 8:57 AM ^
Because Rich Rod and Brady Hoke. That’s why I’m holding on by a thread. I’ll never forget how terrible it was to be a fan during those tenures, and while it’s not great to be a fan now, at least we’re around 9-10 wins a year.
I’d rather have high expectations and get crushed than have no expectations and get crushed.
November 1st, 2020 at 11:24 PM ^
I can agree with this. Shocking to see. I hope M can get some DTs and CBs soon either via transfer or recruits in this class etc. Harbaugh will not get fired, fanbase needs to realize that. Since season is still young and lost to rival in MSU, just focus on development and recruiting. Next year is make or break unfortunately.
November 1st, 2020 at 11:46 PM ^
So 2-6 won't get him fired?
He has not won a thing and we are in year 6.
The same things keep happening over and over and over.
When is it enough for you?
btw, I was not in the fire harbaugh camp until after this game but I have seen enough.
He will never win a championship here and that is why he was hired so it is time to go.
November 1st, 2020 at 11:52 PM ^
No, nobody is getting fired this year because of covid. Michigan will not fire a coach who wins 8 games minimum every year, they didn't after 5 years, they wont after 6, just accept it.
November 2nd, 2020 at 12:04 AM ^
No one should accept losing to OSU every year. It's getting fucking ridiculous. Instead of closing the gap it's getting wider. Starts in recruiting. Jim needs to realize that. Stop taking so many damn three stars.
November 2nd, 2020 at 2:53 AM ^
They're building a recruiting wall around Massachusetts; Give it time.
November 2nd, 2020 at 8:45 AM ^
It's not about stars, but development. Paye was a 3 star, Bell was a LOW 3 star, haskins, Barrett. We have had way too many misses on top recruits too.
Look at the 5 stars we have had with JH. R. Gary did not play like the number 1 player in 2016. DPJ never played up to his ranking, and was ranked better than T. Higgins and J Jeudy. A. Solomon transferred. Dax Hill is the only outlier. Chris Hinton hasn't done anything yet.
The truth of the matter is that Stars don't always lead to success but development does. Take a look at some of the top players in the nfl. Mahomes, Lamar, Aaron Donald. All three stars. Khalil Mack? 2 star/unrated.
November 2nd, 2020 at 9:01 AM ^
Oh my god not this argument again. First of all if development was a problem Michigan wouldn't be having 8-10 kids drafted every year. Second of all how many times in the last 15 years has Michigan finished with a higher rated recruiting class than OSU and what is their record against OSU in that time? The answer is once. For every Aaron Donald and Kwity Paye there are 1000's of three stars who don't pan out like Kingston Davis and Phil Paea and Jamarick Woods and Joel Honigford and Kurt Taylor and I don't think I need to go because you get the point.
Michigan's starting secondary on Saturday was three 3 stars and Daxton Hill. And you think recruiting isn't a problem? Get real man.
November 2nd, 2020 at 9:13 AM ^
Is our little buddy back?
November 2nd, 2020 at 9:14 AM ^
Pipe down, skippy. You don't think they're recruiting top talent? Sometime they want to go other places...Clemson, Alabama, Georgia, osu. You know, places that compete for championships.
It's not like the staff is turning away 5* athletes in favor of 3* players.
Does recruiting success need to improve? Yes, there's an argument for that.
November 2nd, 2020 at 9:32 AM ^
Well, if you want to revisit the Belleville thing again where we refuse to recruit anymore, yes, we kind of are refusing to recruit certain top athletes.
November 2nd, 2020 at 9:43 AM ^
Recruiting IS a problem, but development is way more of a problem. We are not going to magically start recruiting better with a new hire. We cannot compete with the Bama/Clemson/OSU recruiting pitch when they all have way more going to the NFL. Yeah, we had a decent amount last year, but look at the previous years. Do you think recruiting and player development were better before JH? No.
The fact of the matter is that opt-outs hurt us more than anyone realized. Starting secondary shouldn't have been that, but Gray is one of the lowest-rated CB's we have.
November 2nd, 2020 at 10:22 AM ^
The fact of the matter is you’re incorrect. Development is fine as evidenced by the NFL draft results. No coach in the world is going to be able to make Vincent Gray run faster though. 7 out of the 11 starters on defense were three star recruits in high school. That is unacceptable. The same people claiming UM can’t recruit better are the same people who said it about the basketball program not so long ago. But hey, people are wrong here a lot.
November 2nd, 2020 at 5:11 PM ^
https://www.detroitnews.com/story/sports/college/university-michigan/wolverines/2017/01/09/michigan-recruiting-knows-no-bounds-jim-harbaugh-helm/96349318/
Those were the days...
November 2nd, 2020 at 11:04 AM ^
Not sure anyone out there is beating OSU anytime soon. That is the reality of the head start Tressel and Meyer gave them. And the reason we need to be realistic regarding Harbaugh and any potential replacements. There are not many amazing coaches out there and maybe zero of those are entertaining a move. Hiring Rich Rodriguez was a backbreaker. Our recruiting tanked. Hoke was not the answer either but a lot of damage was already done. We were floundering in the wilderness and they were building a battleship.
November 2nd, 2020 at 4:19 AM ^
Michigan is 3-17 vs OSU since 2000. The problem runs deeper than Harbaugh.
I am not sure what the answer is as there are no sure fire replacements out there waiting to be picked up. Everyone is a risk. Taking a risk in a time of a pandemic isn’t going to happen.
November 2nd, 2020 at 7:13 AM ^
The loss Saturday wasn't a matter of talent, but of guttiness. It was a Lloyd Carr-style loss, in which a more talented team came out and got punched in the eye, suffered a string of compounding catastrophes, and lost a football game.
This was supposed to be a tough year, with ten players lost to the NFL. These are two separate issues that both want taking on board, esp for anyone like Warde, who is likely fan and friend of Jimmy's.
You're right, though, that Harbaugh won't be cut loose this season, and the rebuilding will be part of the reason why. But I don't see him surviving a season after unless a pronounced uptick can be pointed. The matter has certainly become more urgent.
November 2nd, 2020 at 7:27 AM ^
Oddly, you made things look better than they actually are.
Michigan is 1-15 vs OSU since 2003.
Hiring a Team Carr lackey won't fix anything. That's already been attempted.
November 2nd, 2020 at 7:47 AM ^
Well imo the first thing that would help change the mindset of the entire football department is stop living in the past. That’s all a Michigan home football is is a trip in a Delorian.
November 2nd, 2020 at 8:07 AM ^
By 'Delorian' you mean 'Edsel'
November 2nd, 2020 at 8:07 AM ^
Double post
November 2nd, 2020 at 8:51 AM ^
Michigan had a fantastic football tradition until the end of Lloyd's tenure. We should have been re-loading with t a new coach and RR wasn't it. I gave RR a chance at the beginning, but we basically threw away our tradition and hired a cheeseball low-character guy. People cling to the past because Michigan football hasn't been 100% for 15-20 years.
I'm ride or die with Harbaugh, as 10-3 seasons are back within a standard deviation of where we need to be, but losing to OSU sucks. Losing bowl games sucks. Last year sucked. Last week sucked. Harbaugh is inches away from winning the big games, but if he starts playing Akron and Army close and losing to shitty MSU teams and getting the doors blown off by OSU then someone needs to kick him in the ass. I love Jim Harbaugh because he's a competitor, but we weren't competing last week. Something is wrong.
November 2nd, 2020 at 8:03 AM ^
I really fail to see why you think a pandemic in which we're still playing football would prevent us from replacing the football staff.
Who is going to buy tickets next year when this pandemic is over if they bring back a staff that ends up with a losing record?
They'll end up losing more money and donations than they will if they just pay they buyout.
You are only thinking in short term, but long term what's happening on the field cannot continue unless you want to see the program lose all fan support.
November 2nd, 2020 at 10:06 AM ^
Not to argue this is the CORRECT move - but I agree that we won't move on from JH in the middle of a pandemic. The University and Athletic Department have people furloughed, revenues are down - buying out a multi-million dollar contract and then hiring (what would need to be) a splashy, multi-million dollar coach in this environment would not be a good look, and one I doubt our AD or President have the stomach for
November 2nd, 2020 at 10:25 AM ^
Once again, I am failing to see why if someone can't do their job they get to keep it just because it's a pandemic.
November 2nd, 2020 at 12:11 PM ^
Maybe he can telework
November 2nd, 2020 at 12:59 PM ^
The reality is the pandemic will probably still be going on next year and they have to make a decision on Harbaugh before next season, they can't let him go into final year of his contract as a possible lame duck. They will probably sign him to an extension after this season, but maybe a 3-5 season would change that, but I have my doubts because they're afraid of hiring someone worse. I'm done with the Harbaugh era, he was hired to beat OSU and win Big Ten titles.
November 2nd, 2020 at 2:01 PM ^
Unfortunately, there is no championship or bust expectation here. Hasn’t been for a long time. The expectation amongst the admins and Warde is to create a sustainable, healthy program. We will be more like Iowa than OSU. As soon as you can understand that we won’t win the sooner you can learn to live your life detached of those expectations that will simply never happen.
November 2nd, 2020 at 3:33 PM ^
I’m not in the fire harbaugh camp yet. But I moved from the “ no f’ing way should we fire him” to the “ well. If it happ
November 2nd, 2020 at 2:39 AM ^
Oh the old “need better assistants” argument. Harbaugh has had a revolving door of assistants, two of which were flipping him the bird on their way to Columbus. Despite his assistants, his results are the same. He’s the head coach, it’s his responsibility. He’s the one getting paid like a head coach. He no longer has any more people to hide behind.
November 2nd, 2020 at 3:07 AM ^
"He’s the one getting paid like a head coach."
"A" head coach barely captures it. Harbaugh's base salary is about the same as all 12 MAC football head coach base salaries added together. Add in all the extras and it's downright obscene, at least based on ROI.
November 2nd, 2020 at 4:28 AM ^
I think I'm gonna take a hiatus from this board for awhile.
November 2nd, 2020 at 8:02 AM ^
I 100 percent agree with this take. As bad as Saturday was I still remember Hoke and RRod. I wish Harbaugh would bring in some ace recruiters. I still think we are close especially on offense. We are so young on that side of the ball and and you can see the talent. I think we need a change on defense. We either need to recruit way better or make some system changes. The only way MSU beats us is with the game plan we used on Saturday. You could literally draw it up in the sand. It was just chuck it up and pray and it worked.
November 2nd, 2020 at 8:32 AM ^
You think we're close on offense? What on saturday makes you think that? Neither side looked like they watched 30 seconds of MSU film. Long developing routes and running up the middle all game was literally the worst possible gameplan that could have been drawn up especially considering what worked the week before and we saw none of it.
November 2nd, 2020 at 10:31 AM ^
It was Milton's second start. You see guys like Corum, Henning and Wilson that are true freshmen. There are quite a few sophmores working there way in as well. That side of the ball is so young. We could easily bring 9 or 10 guys back next year. I can at least see what they are trying to do on that side of the ball. Defense is another story. We just had the worst game plan I can remember and we just keep doing the same thing over and over.
November 2nd, 2020 at 11:20 AM ^
Figure out why that side of the ball is so young, because nobody wants to stay here and finish their careers to waste their time so we're forced to play guys that aren't ready/aren't as talented.
November 2nd, 2020 at 8:12 AM ^
He has had plenty of chances to replace coaches, it's obvious he's not hiring the right ones. Why would you trust him to get it right now?
November 2nd, 2020 at 9:21 AM ^
Zordich? Are you fucking serious? He's one of the two best coaches we have...
Something needs to change, yes, but it isn't Zordich, dude.
November 2nd, 2020 at 10:24 AM ^
Zordich is very likely our best position coach, but he doesn't recruit or so I hear and read. It's such a negative loop in this program. Poor recruiting leads to lack of talent for this scheme, they give up big plays and lose these games, which in turn doesn't help with recruiting.
Harbaugh needs to bring TOP recruiters. that and a new DC. One that may have his own scheme but ADAPTS to give his defense the best chance at stopping the opposition. Saturday was traditional Michigan football, stubborn, arrogant and outcoached.