Recruiting "best guess" questions for Magnus, other insiders and anyone else who's interested...
Magnus (and others),
It's still REALLY early, but COVID-impact notwithstanding, how do you see us closing out this recruiting class (generally speaking)? It seems like more guys are committing early than ever before. I've heard coaches are pressuring them due to the pandemic.
We all know that there's been a lot of bitching about stars (and in some respects, rightfully so)...I just ran through every 2021 top prospect by position and outside of Edwards and Spindler (who may be a ND lean right now), it's tough to see it getting much better. What are your thoughts?
Here's what I was able to gather simply from 247Sports.com.
QB (1):
JJ McCarthy
Notes - need filled.
RB (2):
Donovan Edwards (4* - ovr: #38)
Prophet Brown (4* - ovr: #339)
Notes - this feels like a problem, we need two and it seems like we only have two that are firmly at the top of the board and neither is a "shoe in," but I don't see anymore high level options - this felt like a theme, having to hit on most the options that are left.
WR (2-3):
Markus Allen
Cristian Dixon (4* - ovr: #171)
Xavier Worthy (4* - ovr: #208)
Andrel Anthony (3* - ovr: #495)
Kamonte Grimes (3* - ovr: #392)
Notes - there were are few others listed as "prospects," but didn't feel like we had a realistic shot. If we can get Worthy and Anthony, I'd consider that a win.
TE (2):
Louis Hansen
Thomas Fidone (4* - ovr: #98)
Jack Pugh (4* - ovr: #319)
Notes - either one would be a huge get, but again, it just feels thin, like we're not in true contention with enough guys...too easy to strike out, thoughts?
OT (2):
Giovanni El-Hadi
Rayshaun Benny (4* - ovr: #191)
Tristan Bounds (3* - ovr: #633)
Notes - this one is the most disappointing...there are a TON of natural OTs in this class and we seem to be swinging in missing (Benny looks like a OG/OT tweener type prospect) - very frustrating that we were in on at least 4 top OTs who've already committed (or heavy leans) elsewhere.
OG (2):
Greg Crippen / Raheem Anderson
Rocco Spindler (4* - ovr: #44)
Drew Kendall (4* - ovr: #110)
Notes - hope to hit on both and maybe Spindler can play DT for us, but where is the 4th or 5th option?
OC (1):
Raheem Anderson / Greg Crippen
Notes - need filled.
WDE (2):
TJ Guy
Josaiah Stewart (3* - ovr: #438)
Notes - again, need one and only have one more name that feels like it's realistically a Michigan lean today (that said, some of these guys listed as SDEs will probably stay WDEs in college).
SDE (1):
Dominick Giudice
Kechaun Bennett (4* - ovr: #324)
Arden Walker (3* - ovr: #846)
Colin Mobley (3* - ovr: #433)
Darryl Peterson (3* - ovr: #479)
Notes - I hadn't heard of most of these guys, not sure if that means we're not really at the top for any of them, regardless, the top end guys seem out of the picture.
NG (1):
Notes - this is concerning, we need an elite player in this role.
DT (1):
George Rooks (4* - ovr: #202)
Ikenna Ugbaja (3* - ovr: #1032)
Notes - Ugbaja seems like a realistic option, another Don Brown New England tweener...his film is kind of rough, he's bigger than a lot of guys and gets put on his ass 3x in his own highlight tape.
RUSH END (1):
Quintin Somerville (4* - ovr: #102)
Notes - Uche's role.
WLB (1):
Jamari Budden (4* - ovr: #294)
Notes - LB hard to project exact position.
MLB (1):
Casey Phinney
Jaydon Hood (4* - ovr: #292)
Notes - need filled, nice that we're in on another since our LBs play multiple positions.
SLB (1):
Tyler McLaurin
Junior Colson (4* - ovr: #126)
Notes - LB hard to project exact position.
VIPER (1):
Notes - this is concerning, we need an elite player in this role.
CB (2):
Ja'Den McBurrows
AJ Green (4* - ovr: #193)
Ryan Barnes (3* - ovr: #550)
Notes - doesn't feel like we lead for Green or Barnes, but at least we're in the mix.
FS (1):
Rod Moore
JD Coffey (4* - ovr: #180)
Notes - need filled, nice we're in on another.
SS (1):
Donovan McMillon (3* - ovr: #432)
Notes - need more than just the one option.
K (0):
P (1):
Tommy Doman
Notes - need filled.
I guess the concern is...if we hit on all of the uncommitted guys listed, GREAT! There's some real talent listed. But that doesn't seem realistic and we don't seem to have a lot of realistic options that are Michigan leans outside of what's listed. Are there other top guys that we have realistic shots at? Should any of these guys be removed?
Thanks!
You really should just be a Minnesota fan.
From what I’ve heard Edwards would be fine with another running back in the class
I’m assuming that maybe his level of competition wasn’t the best or maybe grade issues. I hate speculating on recruits because there just teenage kids but it was kinda a weird recruitment. Reminded me a lot of Jalen Berger’s recruitment from last year. His film was amazing but all the big schools backed off including OSU. He ended up at Wisconsin which is weird considering they barely ever get 4 star skill position players.
If he got in Wisconsin...academics weren’t the problem. Their admission standards are among the highest for football players around the country.
Benny is likely being recruited as a DT, not on the OL.
Hopefully a good season on the field will help a bit.
One thing I will say for recruiting is that nationally, this is going to be a really weird year. This is usually a time for under-scouted recruits to attend camps and boost their profiles. Talent evaluation this year for mid and low tier recruits is going to be a total crapshoot.
It will be fascinating to see if a bunch of stars in this class end up coming out of mid-major and lower schools because instead of that 2* guy getting noticed at a camp and a big school scoops him up before he blows up, he continues to be under the radar and goes smaller school
I was wondering something very similar. It would be interesting to hear from those that have knowledge of the camp scene more closely.
How often do these kids make moves in the rankings based on camps that would be happening now or in the near future? Are kids committing sooner because of Covid?
This could be the type of year where a really good film talent evaluating staff has a big edge. I am betting the staff is watching much more film than usual while they are grounded. Can the same be said for the ranking services?
It will be interesting to watch these kids progress.
You project a need for 27-28 signees.
How many are we expected to actually sign this class?
That feels just a touch high. I think if there are 0 5th years that’s about 18 spots or so. I think like 25ish would be a max.
I didn't project anything...I was listing needs per position, but thats not a class size. Going to go over some and under some.
1. Benny is a DT not OT for UM
2. 2022 RB is a good class, only taking 1 this year wouldn't be a bad thing necessarily
3. Taking an OT project or 2 wouldn't be bad given last year's class, but I would always take 2 true OT prospects every cycle
4. Barnes could play any DB position. Many of the DB prospects have offers that outpace their rankings
5. Buddin is a viper not a WLB
6. I doubt we want to run a lot of 2 TE sets with Gattis, so even if we only get Hansen, I think we are okay
1. WR - Add Lorenzo Styles as a possible flip. Long shot but still rumblings. Also Titus Mokiai Atimalala
2. TE - Add Erin Outley and Bryson Nesbit as others on the radar
3. OT - Benny is a DT. Add Nolan Rucci as a long shot. Michigan has been pursuing Garrett Dellinger hard and if he holds off on his timeline, I think Michigan has a great shot with him. Other names to remember: 247 4* Thomas Cole, Diego Pounds, William Reed.
4. OG - We don’t need a 4th or 5th option. We’ve recruited the OG position well and tackles can move over. Furthermore Crippen can also be a OG.
5. DE - Somerville is a DE, not really the Uche role. Dallas Turner is a long shot.
6. DT - Add recent offer Jacob Schuster as a possibility
7. Viper - Buddin would have been likely Viper, but I don’t think Michigan is getting him either.
8. CB - Add Omarion Cooper, Duce Chestnut, Tyreek Chappell and John Howse as options. A.J. Green is being recruited for RB
Diego Pounds has to be one of the best names ever for an o-lineman.
Thank you! Someone finally realizes that Michigan has a legit shot at Dellinger. I’ve been saying it for a while now but people just keep saying he’s a LSU lock. Allen Trieu basically confirmed this week that the longer Dellingers recruitment the better for Michigan.
When I said 4th or 5th option...to be clear I'm not talking commits at that position.
I'm talking propsects that we lead for.
So not sure how you can say we don't need more prospects. That's hustling backwards.
Bama has like 10 guys at each position and they take who they want for the most part and if they lose out...they got 8-9 more behind that guy.
Saying we don't need more options is silly. Of course we do.
Benny is a DT.
Rooks is... an SDE. I know. But Michigan has told him they like him in a Hutchinson role. He'd be an excellent addition and I hope he makes it into the class. #2 in New Jersey overall.
Still makes you look out the window and wonder what of DT recruiting...
Benny is a DT. But you'd think they'd want at least two of them after last year.
Just beat OSU ....
How is Michigan going to beat OSU when they have 12 commits in the top 105 in the new Rivals250 and UM has 3.
Your mom disagrees. She likes them better than you
By scoring more points would be my guess
Same way other teams that they lost to who didn’t recruit nearly as well
Nah. OSu doesn't cross out letters and devore every day of their season to other teams like they do Michigan. 20 straight years of ass whoopings. It ain't changing unless we start recruiting better.
Is Devore a Devout Whore?
I'm not into recruiting whatsoever but it appears the top talent in the country doesn't want anything to do with us nor do the coaches seem to be keen on going after them. The system (CFB in general) sucks.
We are no longer an elite team. Harbaugh is a great coach but top talent wants to play for the top teams. So just enjoy your 8-10 win seasons and meager bowl games. Michigan made the mistake of hiring RR and so far we have never recovered from that big mistake.
Agree. Sort of. But here's the thing... Football can change. Quick. Outside of the SEC west where two programs reign supreme, stuff can happen. Which is why we watch! Injuries, transfers, losses, upsets. I know it feels like Michigan is far away from a title but when you least expect it...wham! Anyways, that's what I tell myself to stay invested, ha.
I've enjoyed watching Michigan football since Harbaugh was hired. I liked Carr but he could have done so much more with the talent he got after winning the NC from '98 through '02. Harbaugh would have been in much better shape by now with building Michigan back to the elite level if he would have beaten OSU back in '16. We out played them and thanks to a few miss ques, bad refs and dumb luck Michigan should have won that game. I still think Harbaugh has a chance to get on that elite team status, if he can upset OSU at home in 2021 or 2023? I thought Harbaugh would do better against OSU and was thinking back in 2015, he would have won at least 1 or 2 B1G championships and reached the playoffs a few times by 2020. But who knows, may be our offense will explode and all we will need is an average D to win a NC again?
Alabama hired Mike Shula, then got Nick Saban. Florida hired Ron Zook, then got Urban Meyer. OU hired Joh Blake, then hired Bob Stoops. USc hired Paul Hackett, then hired Pete Carroll.
There's no such thing as elite programs only elite coaches. Elite coaches are elite recruiters. Urban Meyer said the #1 job of a college football coach is recruiting. Not coaching, not development, not game planning.
Our guy keeps hiring loser assistant coaches who can't recruit. Zordich, Shoop, Nua, etc. all need to go. It's on Jim to revamp the defense like he did the offense. The caliber of recruits UM is in play for on offense vs defense is staggering. UM recruiting like a mid major power 5 team on defense. OSU will hang 70 on our asses soon.
What hell is a mid major Power 5?
I believe mid major is a term and Power 5 is a term, but you just mashed them together.
I guess that would be teams like Wake Forest , Illinois , Oregon state etc.
This post is catnip for Maizen
Unfortunately I can't edit the OP, but Benny at DT and Buddin at VIPER (although from his film, I think he'd be a liability at S, we often rotated Hudson back to a deep safety spot when teams motioned Dax or Hawkins to close to the LOS).
But noted on both.
For those who've answered with some (great) info...who does Michigan currently lead for at the moment? Anyone?
I'd be really surprised if Buddin actually ended up playing a Viper role in college, either at Michigan or elsewhere. I think his long-term destination is likely WLB.
I'm not super concerned about Viper in this class simply because Michigan picked up 4 guys last year who could play the position. That's an enormous number of talented people. The position is in good hands for years to come.
That said, I actually think Donovan McMillon looks more like a Viper prospect than a true safety to me. 247 notes in his evaluation that the guy looks like a S/OLB tweener. Those guys have traditionally filled the Viper role in Don Brown's defense.
By contrast, Buddin seems like a straight linebacker. He's the same listed size as Tyler Mclaurin and should play at around 230 in college.
Agree 100% on Buddin.
The first page and a half is littered with people saying he's a Viper definitively and then you and Magnus (and I) don't see it.
You can look at his fim and see that he moves like a LB more than an oversized DB.
Sidenote, what I would give to see Ernest Shazor play that spot for 3 years. Whew!
Buddin looks like a good one, but a pure LB for sure.
I don’t think you need 2 TEs or RBs.
13 guys now. I’d like to add 1 RB, 2 OL (preferably both OTs but I’ll take Spindler and Kendall I guess), 2 CBs, 1 WR, Benny at DT, another DT, 2 more DL, 1 LB, 1 safety. That’s a mid 20s person class.
I think you can get away with 1 TE because of all the slots Gattis has brought in. That room feels full. I think you only need 1 RB you really like cause you have Charbonnet and Corum for at least the next 2 years.
If you get Benny at DT then I’m okay with taking more of these SDEs you try to bulk up, you just have to take like 3 more to give yourself a decent shot at 1 interior guy. Obviously need CBs. I’m not that concerned about LB and SS because seems like they’ve thrown a ton of those guys in the pile and you still don’t know what you have, so 1 of each.
Harbaugh hasn't replaced recruiters like Wheatley, Al Washington, Mattison, Partridge, and Campanile when they left. If you look at the coaches added to the staff, Pep Hamilton, Brown, McElwain, Shoop were all known non-recruiters before they were added to the staff. I question how much a middle aged dude like Dudek who never played football at a high level is connecting with recruits.
WOTS is the Budden ship is close to sailing
I'm not sure the lack of viper in this class is that big of a deal . We took multiple guys the past two years who could end up at viper. If we skip a year, no big deal.
Overall this recruiting class is... concerning.
Agree on the NG need to be elite and the Viper. Our fear is these big losses in big games hasn't played well for kids who are elite. Heres hoping that the big drafts Michigan has gotten can counter balance.
Nice work thanks.
Without having read through all the comments (reading a bunch of "best guess" lists is kind of exhausting), here's my response:
1. It's really early still, so people who are super excited about this class or super upset by this class are wrong. It's totally in flux right now.
2. Guy looks like an SDE/3-tech.
3. Somerville isn't a SAM. He's a WDE or maybe even an SDE.
4. Buddin is too big/stiff to be a Viper in the way that Michigan has deployed Vipers in the past. He will probably grow into a WILL...at some other school.
5. I don't get the sense that Pugh is a likely option right now.
6. Concerns about Viper are overstated. Michigan is not recruiting that position hard in this class, so they don't seem to be very concerned. And like I said above, Buddin isn't even really a Viper. The overabundance of Viper-style players in the past two classes means you can skip a year. Also, Khaleke Hudson was just fine at Viper for the most part. He was a 3-star recruit and a late-round draft pick. You don't need an elite player there. You just need a guy who fits the mold.
But Magnus, why aren’t we recruiting 200 NT/DTs???? /s
Thank you for the thoughtful reply. With the lack of ability to visit schools I suspect that there are a lot of guys in a “holding pattern” both in the way they are being recruited by some schools and the way they are responding to said recruitment. Hypothetical - Generic Low 4-star on the composite issuing a “Top 5” of Bama/UGA/OSU/Texas/Oregon because they’re all still talking to him, but they haven’t been able to evaluate him further and won’t accept his commitment right now. Things open back up, people evaluate the whole class and then his top 5 changes because of who is still interested after the dust settles.
Thanks for responding. Really appreciate it.
Also appreciate the perspective!
I knew I’d regret clicking this. This was the bat signal for assholes. Or as they say....IM JUST TELLING THE TRUTH!!!!!!!!!
I've actually been pleasantly surprised at the number of people who actually gave a serious response.
I knew the first response would be some lame, corny joke. And it was.
But it got better after that.
I will say this, in talking to some folks on college staffs take the rankings this year with a huge grain of salt. I always tell people to look at who we are recruiting against as a better precursor to success than a star ranking. This goes for guys like McMillan, Barnes, and Bounds on your list.
It's a big, big deal that coaches aren't able to eval guys in person and have them in camp. It's kinda old school, back when I was playing all coaches had to go off was film. There weren't all these camps and 7 on 7's (besides the individual schools). The uncertainty is what is causing all these schools to try and get kids committed.
Also, anyone want to ask me what's going on with Belleville :P I won't address it specifically, but if you have any questions, I've heard some interesting refrains.
Ok. What have you heard?