I think the coaches will hold out for Isaac.
alternate headline: man does job
I think the coaches will hold out for Isaac.
Does commitments from either of guys either take us out of the running for Isaac, or mean we stop pursuing Isaac?
My guess is, if that is in fact the case, that we will hold out for Ty Isaac. (At least that's what I would like to see, in my ideal scenario.)
First, we will see if Ty Isaac takes a pass this week. I am sure he was told that we might not be able to wait to take someone. I think we would take Isaac no matter what, even late, but he has hinted that he wants to be the only RB in the class. It is sort of a game of chicken...the coaches are not forcing him to commit, but basically are making it clear that they can't wait forever either.
Deveon Smith is my favorite of the rest...power back, would fit into the system nicely. I would actually be surprised if he didn't commit soon.
Green is a great back, but no way he commits at this point in the process.
but looking at the offer sheet of Smith and Green, Green is probably the better back.
Is it just the 'fit' which makes Smith better suited for Michigan? Or is it just based on pure possibility of commitment.
Green is definitely the more highly regarded back, but I think Smith fits well in terms of what Hoke wants in a running back. Helmholdt described Smith as a "bull" which I would say is an accurate description of him from what I've seen of him. He's a MANBALL back. Isaac and Green can probably do more things though.
Green is thught to be an OSU lean FWIW.
you'd think it was 2005 all over again with all this talk of power backs and manball I-form!
Al Borges is a west coast offense guy. The WCO, finesse offense based on using the pass to set up the run, is about as far away from manball as it gets.
It's only March. Just because Isaac didn't commit this weekend doesn't mean we don't have a shot. RollDamnTide has been beating the Isaac to Michigan drum for a bit now. NSD is almost a year away. I know we've been spoiled with having 15/~23 recruits already, but there's still time to wait.
How does Isaac's delay equate to us choosing between Smith and Green? Isaac has said for some time he wanted to take his official visits, so other than disappointing news, why would his delay mean anything else?
Been a lot of talk that Smith could commit next weekend on his visit which puts in to question whether or not Isaac will want to come here or if we would take him (Can't see us turning down a guy like Isaac but we would have 2 RB's if we get Smith).
Green not committing soon so not an issue there.
Not gonna land Green this early, if at all. I'd say maybe on DeVeon but will he try to commit before Isaac and how with the coaches handle that situation?
Was that a hoodie Allen reference
at the recruits and all will be well.
I clicked the arrow, despite knowing nothing would happen.
I wasn't the only one.
was a new feature introduced by Brian. He did say he was working on performance improvements on the site this past week.
Someone mentions perfomance improvements
Cue "bring posbang's back" comments
But seriously, that'd be awesome
I believe Green has said he won't decide until February. Word is Clemson and OSU are his current leaders.
I wouldn't be shocked by a Smith commitment.
Like neo said Isaac gets a spot if and when he wants it. Lets just hope there are still spots left when he decides.
must not have heard that TY wants to be the only back in this class.Well he has a decision to make this week because smith is coming in this weekend!!!
With Isaac saying that he wants to be the only feature RB in any class he commits to, I would guess he has until Saturday to make up his mind on whether Michigan is where he really wants to be. Smith will be on board Saturday, if there is still an open RB spot on the table.
I like Smith. I like his size and speed.
Are we recruiting Ty as a RB? Bcuz at 6'3" (according to Rivals) he's already very large for the position and he's still just a Junior. It's very possible he'll be at 6'4" by the time he enters college. With that said, he seems better suited for a WR spot. Has he ever hinted or said he's willing to switch positions?
This guy Brandon Jacobs makes a decent living in the NFL. I think if the ability is there, we shouldn't be blinded by the measurables (see: Mike Hart, admittedly he was the opposite case)
At least that takes away a candidate for Oh Meyer.
From what I'm hearing, we'll know a lot more about this situation at the end of the week. I think things will be decided long before Green is ready to make a choice, and I don't think Michigan takes both Isaac and Smith. From what I know (info from a source who would very much know) Michigan is just taking two running backs. Period.
If Smith were to commit, there's also the issue of Isaac wanting to be the feature back in his class. I don't think he has a problem with Shallman being in Michigan's class, since Shallman has a particular niche, but Smith is another every-down type, and a quite talented one at that.
THIS IS A GOOD PROBLEM. Isaac is a heck of a player, but I think people are quick to write off Smith around here—go watch some tape and check out the Ohio rankings from Midwest experts (i.e. Bucknuts, Scout); they really like him. I don't think Michigan can go wrong here, and the unfortunate truth of the matter is you're not going to get every high-profile player, even the ones who show really strong interest early.
It will be very interesting to see if Isaac feels the heat from a potential Smith commitment and decides to end the process this week. I think he really wants to check out USC, but it seems like Michigan is also his top team and he knows he might lose his spot if he waits. It's not an ideal situtation for him, but that's how it goes sometimes. The run on open spots in the class is real, and we've already seen with a guy like LTT that it can affect a recruit's timeline, but Michigan isn't doing anything other than being completely up-front and honest about the situation with these players.
BoAndHokeFan's comment below brought up a good point, in that Isaac has already paid for a trip out to California to visit USC, and I was wondering if there is a chance that he could be planning to commit (or even has silently commited), but will not make it official until after the trip. Furthermore, would the coaches even allow that (see Pharoah Brown last year)?
I'm honestly not sure how they'd handle that particular situation, since it's a little different from what Brown did last year (in this case, trip scheduled well before commitment). I think they'd have to be (1) convinced that Isaac would commit, which pretty much defeats the purpose of the trip, and (2) willing to turn away Smith, which I don't think is the case.
Thanks for sharing this, Ace.
I don't necessarily disagree that this is a good problem to have, but it is a self-created problem and there are alternatives. Hoke & company use scarcity very well with recruiting. They offer more kids who might be interested than there are places available and then are honest with the kids that it's first come, first served. That can be (and has been) a very good strategy.
Still, there are risks and costs involved, since this might require the coaches to dig deeper into the pool of players who interest them when they're sending offers. Scarcity won't work to your advantage if you don't offer enough kids. The risk is that you'll be in a position where you either have to accept a commitment from Prospect A when it probably would have paid off to wait for Prospect B or you'll have to set some conditions for Prospect A's offer that could turn him away and/or undermine the credibility of your scarcity strategy altogether.
Like most here, I'm thrilled with the job that these guys are doing on the recruiting trail - and I really like what I've seen from those other RBs, too - but this isn't entirely black and white.
The linebacker situation—turning away Anzalone and Jones from visits because of an apparent confidence in Gedeon—is certainly a gray area, but I think the coaches are handling things the right way. Yes, they've put out more offers than spots, but literally every school does this. They've been very up front about telling recruits the status of the class—the Anzalone/Jones situtation is a perfect example of this—and otherwise have made it clear that it's open season and little is guaranteed.
Does this mean Michigan might have to pass up a higher-ranked recruit because a lower-ranked guy is ready to commit first? Sure. We don't know how their own board stacks up. Also, while Michigan is certainly using scarcity to their advantage—the recruits know that spots are running out at certain positions—they're not telling players to make a commitment before they're ready. The players simply know that by making a choice to wait until later in the process, they might lose certain options; this is just how recruiting goes, and I see nothing wrong with giving a scholarship to a player who's ready to make a commitment instead of putting the class on hold while other players make a choice. The flip side to this Isaac thing is forcing Smith to wait on a choice he's apparently ready to make, which isn't exactly fair to Smith and would likely make him feel like a Plan B.
Yeah, sorry, I'm not saying that there's anything unethical about this strategy (at all). It just might not be the ideal strategy for maximizing the talent in the class.
Anyway, it looks like there's a new thread about this now. Hopefully that generates some good discussion.
No need to apologize. I just thought that was a good spot to lay out my thoughts on the subject. It's certainly an interesting discussion point given we haven't really seen anything like this before.
Well put. I think the obvious comparison is McCray, who got tired of being slow played by Ohio and moved on. Obviously, he didn't have an offer, but having one and being held at arm's bay might be even more infuriating. If you've planned it right, and we have to trust the coaches have, getting the "second best" option doesn't mean getting a substantial downgrade.
Isaac has a non-refundable self paid ticket to LA next week. Why wouldn't he go to make sure.
Smith may commit. They would then take two if Isaac wants in.
If Smith and Green both commit (not a chance) that would be a good option. Position filled.
One guy's opinion.
he is a silent commit?
Just congratulated mccray on his commit and mentioned his visit this week and said we'll see what happens
I like smith and welcome his commitment. If the coaches want two backs total and he commits I have no problem with that. If Isaac beats him to the punch, that's great too. Either way, I'd be very excited to have one of them put on a winged helmet.
Can't say I know the plusses and minuses of the three. My feeling is I just want the one who most wants to be a Wolverine. With the o line being put in place, I can't see any of them not doing well.
As of tonight. Could change. He has discussed the rb situation with the coaches but is keeping that info private
If smith visit is canceled ala analazone then something is up
In LB, we have 2-3 highly regarded LBs naming us leader (Levenberry, O'Daniel) and possibly us having a silent (Gedeon). In addition, we are recruiting Shane Jones still I think.
In RB, we have only two realistic options in Isaac and Smith. I think, they won't tell Smith to not visit in any case. Green is only an outside possibility at this point.
But ESPN has Shallman listed as a FB. So technically if we're only going to take to RB's we could move Shallman to FB and take Isaac and Smith/Green. And if Isaac really wants to be a Michigan man, and if Smith commits before him, he'll just have to get over the fact that he won't be the only feature back and embrace the competition
I'll have more on this tomorrow, straight from the source, but Shallman is 100% coming in as a tailback and that's perhaps the biggest reason why he committed. That's not changing.
I fully believe that's what he's been told and he'll get a chance to compete at tailback, but I also believe he won't ever play significant time at TB. I can see him as a FB or H-back, but his video just doesn't look like a feature back. He's not that talented of a runner. Compare his video to Issac and Smith; it's no comparison.
I'm still really glad Shallman is part of this class, but I expect see him on the field at another position or for occasional short yardage carries.
I don't think it's a question of his suitability as a featureback. As it's been portrayed, he'll fill more of a niche role, as the kind of thunderback Wisconsin and Stanford have had success with in recent times.
He's going to be one of those guys where if you need 1 yard, he'll get you 3 yards and if you need 5 yards, he'll get you 3 yards.
in college. He runs like a tight end, he might play FB but my prediction is defense.
Issac has the rare explosiveness. Smith less explosive but uses his strong legs to get good second/third effort, hard to say which one would be more successful in college.
The coaches offered Smith a while back, when he didn't have any offers, knowing (I imagine) that he grew up a Michigan fan. They obviously have a genuine interest in him beyond gamesmanship. Ty Isaac might be the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow, but if they didn't want Smith, they would have waited longer to offer a kid who may well have committed on the spot.
Like Brian said on the front page, Bell leaving has zero effect on recruiting—linebacker or otherwise—for 2013. Still 2 + Levenberry.
I've said it before and I'll say it again: the difference between a 5* player and a 4* player is not that big (usually) and can easily change between now and the fall of 2013.
While Isaac is a beast with loads of potential, I LOVE Smith for lots of reasons, and a big one is that he's a Michigan fan. I love that passion.
If Smith commits this weekend, I am completely comfortable not having Isaac in this class. Fergodsakes, look at this tape: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vd7kCeT60IM
He is strong, sees the field well, and is VERY tough to tackle. Isaac has much better speed, but Smith is up to top speed quickly. Honestly, he reminds me a lot of a Jonathan Dwyer type RB, who just hits the hole hard and the mauls you all the way to the goal line.
Would I rather have Ty's talent? Sure. But it's more important to me to have the guy who really wants to be a Michigan man.
We should respect Ty for taking his time even if this means he may miss the Hoke train. This is his one choice that will definitely impact his whole life.
I am sure there are many Michigan men out there that might have committed in the NSD.
Isaac is so much like Marcus Allen that the USC visit just seems so ironic. I say its either Michigan or USC.
Love the film, and it's more impressive to me IMHO than Isaacs.
Isaac never gets touched in his long runs. His OL is good enough to blow open 3-5 yard holes, and Isaac has the speed to run away from defenders.
Smith is an absolute bruiser though, with a nice burst. That youtube film is VERY impressive.
I think it's silly to 'leave a spot' for Isaac with a guy like Smith wanting to commit.
But Smith is not going to be encountering the same undersized, poor tackling saps that are featured in his highlight film. I do like his reads / decision making, his churn and think (based on the little footage I've seen) that he certainly seems to possess the skills to be a feature back. But Isaac's speed to and through the hole is special—that is something that will give him an advantage at the next level and sets him apart from Smith.
Not so fast Highlander.... now I am sure we all love RBs who love Michigan, but go back and watch Isaac's and Smith's tapes, again... Isaac is Marcus Allen, jersey number and all. Smith looks good too, but I think the notion that you'd be completely comfortable not having Isaac, with Smith in the bag, should be revisited... because I sure wouldn't be.
And the USC visit is ironic, because thats where Allen played.
I love Isaac and Smith...personally I want both. I don't know if that will happen, but I hope it will and I hope the coaches will be open to it. I don't think the coaches would make Smith wait for Isaac's decision if he wished to commit. Although they might only be taking 2 running backs for now, and I trust Ace, I believe that situation could change like the LB situation. I know Isaac might not wants to be the elite back in the class, but most top programs will be competitive at RB regardless. Regardless this week and weekend will be very interesting seeing what Isaac does, Onwualu visiting (probably during the week), and Poggi, Smith, Green, Orndorff and who knows who else will be added for this weekend!!
I think that's the better question.
My guess is that the RB recruiting situation might sort itself out over the coming week, for all we know. Not knowing much about Isaac other than what I read here and elsewhere about his "tangibles", and about his stated wish to make other visits, it does leave me wondering what his thought process might be, what kind of support system he relies on at home, at school, with his high school coaches, etc.---or is he more of an independant, free-thinking type who wants to just go back home and think things thru a little bit more on his own?
Might be wishful thinking on my part, but I wouldn't be surprised if he, after taking a step back and thinking about his choices, after going over the pros and cons of committing to U of M, with his parents and/or coaches and/or others he relies on for wisdom and advice, that the situation clarifies itself. He might just need 24 hours, 48 hours, or the rest of the week to get there, or it might take a week or more and that visit to USC to clarify the situation for him. I do know one thing---Hoke has to have an advantage over Kiffin at this point when Isaac (or any other potential recruit) compare the two Head Coaches with each other---and that's even before Hoke pulls out his secret weapon and points at him!
As we all know, he spent the entire weekend at U of M, so it's highly likely that he came in contact with more than just a few of the current players, current commits, and potential future commits, he also got a chance to see what the campus is like and get an idea what the general student body is like. As Michigan fans, we all are focused on the huge run of success that seems to be going on all over the world of U of M Athletics; Isaac, on the other hand, just finished soaking in a weekend of direct contact with it all!
As hard as it is to wait, given our recent string of recruiting success, I remain optimistic that Isaac will commit, and it will be relatively soon.
While I haven't made any comparisons between Smith and Dunn, I'd like to know the rationale behind this statement?
I haven't heard any major Ohio analyst say this, and for the most part, they love Smith. Smith is supposed to be very similar to Dunn, but Scout/Bucknuts both had Dunn rated higher.
Since it's modestly on topic, I was talking with a HS football coach in Michigan about the two players this weekend and he had an interesting take on it. He observed Isaac had this skill and that skill and clearly was an elite recruit, but there was one question in his mind- how well can he break tackles? He observed, and showed me footage which generally backed up his point, that Isaac is so damn good at the HS level that almost no one touches him. Good news, to be sure, but unsustainable at the next level. Smith on the other hand has a proven ability to break tackles, carry the pile and earn hard yardage. This wasn't to say he liked one better than the other, he liked both.
None of this refelects my opinions, or expertise. It was interesting to hear someone with some level of knowledge compare the two. Looking at the footage, his point was well taken. I think either would be fine prospects, just different.
Watching Isaac's tape, on some of the plays he seemed to be brought down pretty easily, while Smith runs through everyone in his. However with the potential dominance our oline could have in the future, Isaac's ability to hit the hole quick and explode to the second level could make the breaking tackle issue a moot point.
I agree with you, they are different style runners but both look like great players and I'd be happy with either one.
That would drag it to at least April.
To "April"....man, are we entering a brave new world...
hold out for Isaac no matter what. Ty Isaac gives me comparisons of Darren McFadden when he was at Arkansas. Total game changer but can split out to WR unlike anything I have ever seen. Sometimes you have to be patient and take a risk by doing nothing. Be secure in the fact that this is Michigan. This is obsurd to be a supposed leader for this savage of a talent to let him possibly get away. DO NOT LET THIS ONE GO!! He is the type of player that makes OC's more innovative in their ability to call games and can you imagine having the Original Innovator himself, Big AL, calling games with this talent. OUCH for opposing DC's.
Because I don't think we've given you the chance to weigh in as of yet and I really want to hear what you have to say…
I say wait for Ty, he's worth it. We already have guys like Smith on the team i.e., Fitz, Rawls, etc. A guy like Isaac comes along once every blue moon, so in my opinion you wait for him.