Question for those blaming Warde: did you want Harbaugh fired in 2020?
To be as clear as possible, I'll state my positions up front on this whole saga so that you'll understand exactly where I'm coming from when I ask what I think is an important question for everyone to consider.
- I expected winning to be tough after 2016 due to the transition recruiting class and the relative imbalance between underclassmen and upperclassmen on the roster
- I thought the inability to get over the hump was due in large part to bad officiating in high-leverage situations and horrible luck with QB injuries
- The only aspect of the roster management that I thought were bad in those wayward years were inability of interior DTs to hold up against the run and inability of our 3rd corner to cover 5* receivers
- I thought the people calling for Harbaugh to be fired were having an emotion-driven knee-jerk reaction which was not based on a serious analysis of all the factors at work
- I thought 2020 was a joke season and did not matter AT ALL in terms of evaluating Harbaugh's job performance, specifically because of how young the roster was in that year and how little practice time they had
- I think the infamous pay cut Harbaugh received played no part in "motivating him" to "coach the team better", that the money probably mattered very little to him, and that he did feel disrespected by the AD regardless (and perhaps by many of the fans too)
- If the relationship between Harbaugh and Warde had not soured, I think it might have increased the chances of retaining Harbaugh a bit, but he was still going to be very interested either way in NFL opportunities where he feels like ownership and management will stay out of his way and let him build his kind of team and pursue his Super Bowl dream
- I'm not here to discuss how Warde has handled other coaches and teams in the athletic department, or defend him from criticism, or evaluate his overall performance as AD, or decide whether Warde should be fired or retained as AD. Those are all good discussions to have, but right now I'm interested more narrowly in his handling of Harbaugh during the middle years when tons of fans wanted Harbaugh gone, and the extent to which an athletic director is expected to ignore the fans and public or to listen to them in those situations.
With all of that out of the way, here is a question for those of you blaming Warde for Harbaugh's return to the NFL that I'd like you to answer honestly: do you mostly agree with my reasoning above? If not, then what are the specific points at which we are suddenly on completely different pages?
I'm not saying that blaming Warde today makes you a hypocrite if you wanted Harbaugh fired back in 2020, either. Maybe you admit you were wrong in 2020 and you think it's the AD's responsibility to shut out the fan noise and know better -- that's a perfectly consistent and reasonable position to take in this discussion. Maybe you didn't want Harbaugh fired and thought like I did that he was the best of the available options. No matter the case, I want you to think critically, be curious, and respectfully let me know what you think.
Thanks and Go Blue!
January 26th, 2024 at 3:19 PM ^
No, and we don't need another thread about this.
January 26th, 2024 at 3:33 PM ^
+1, NO! I always considered the Covid year (era) stupid on almost every aspect. Sure it was unprecedented, but there was tons of stupidity.
January 26th, 2024 at 3:42 PM ^
Yes, and we don’t need another thread about it.
January 26th, 2024 at 4:29 PM ^
No, and we don’t need another thread about this, AND the fact that we’re still writing paragraphs long posts conjecturing about whether or not he is to blame is all that matters. He has lost the room. Time to go.
January 27th, 2024 at 9:05 AM ^
Lost the mgoblog message board room…? Maybe I’m wrong but I don’t think the run-of-the-mill Michigan fan cares or even thinks much of Warde. And I see no indication that he’s lost the faith of the Regents or Ono.
January 27th, 2024 at 10:17 AM ^
Yes, partly us, but mostly the cash cow of the football program and all involved therein. You can’t have a toxic relationship with the most successful coach in decades be reported in the press and not acknowledge the likelihood that Warde is disliked by many stakeholders surrounding the program. I also think many fans have followed the contract negotiations closely and put part of the blame on Warde. All combined, his leadership has a perception of ineffectiveness. Empty suit. Over his head.
January 26th, 2024 at 4:55 PM ^
Fire Warde
January 26th, 2024 at 5:13 PM ^
No, and the revisionist history that "Warde saved Jim" three years later is inane. Jim wasn't getting fired after the crazy COVID season. No one was happy with the progress and direction of the team, but the majority of the fan base wasn't "calling for his head" regardless of whether that's a quaint storyline for national media members after-the-fact.
Warde's contract move earned him praise in those same media members eyes, it clearly earned him animosity with JH himself. (If you believe the insider reports now) Warde's job was to understand who his best assets and talents are and then move mountain and sky to keep him here.
All of that to say, like discussed on the roundtable yesterday, none of this likely would have stopped Jim from wanting to pursue a lifegoal of winning a Super Bowl.
January 26th, 2024 at 5:36 PM ^
"...but the majority of the fan base wasn't "calling for his head"..."
I kind'a disagree with this point. The majority was ambivalent one way or the other. Of those left, a majority wanted him gone, and a minority wanted viscerally to keep him. Otherwise, I agree with you.
January 26th, 2024 at 5:41 PM ^
A lot of people were calling for his head. I thought that was dumb the law of unintended consequences is real and just because you fire someone doesn’t mean the replacement is gonna improve. Rich Rod and Hoke are perfect examples.
January 26th, 2024 at 8:18 PM ^
I think we're saying the same thing then. The majority of the fan base weren't calling for his head (they weren't viscerally on either side). I'm self-described in that area of ambivalence. I wasn't happy with the overall direction of the program. The COVID season was a real bummer, but life was a bummer. He had three 10 win seasons and that shouldn't be forgotten. But losing to OSU every year was frustrating. I believe people had a plurality of emotions/opinions.
But the point I would make to anyone who asked was that Jim Harbaugh was still one of the best coaches in the country, and Michigan couldn't get a better coach out on the market (even if they did fire him, which they shouldn't).
For those of us who were ambivalent or better, it's been three years now of sloppy national media members lumping all Michigan fans into the pitchfork yielding masses they saw online. And I've had a three year opinion that was not an accurate opinion of the plurality of fans. But definitely agree there was a very vocal (and clearly now very wrong) segment of the fanbase calling for him to be fired.
January 26th, 2024 at 7:32 PM ^
"... the majority of the fan base wasn't 'calling for his head' ..."
The board has a search function and a When Can We Fire This Guy tag. If you will accept MGoBlog posters as representative of the fan base, you are so, soo wrong:
Why hasn't the Harbaugh era worked?
Would Michigan be satisfied with Brian Kelly's coaching record?
"Every post on here is FIRE HARBAUGH!"
Brian said: "I can't imagine Jim Harbaugh makes this work any more."
Seth said: "We run through the plausible name and then talk about 20 other guys. Bad year to be doing this if they don't get Campbell, probably."
Ace said: "In Detroit's case, the fans knew it was time to move on before the franchise did, leading to a wasted 2020 season. May Michigan's leadership not make the same mistake."
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This is not to dump on Brian, Seth or anyone else for their e-pinions. It's to push back against the revisionist history that people weren't calling for Harbaugh's head.
January 26th, 2024 at 8:06 PM ^
I don't even a little bit accept MGoPosters as representative of the opinion of the entire fanbase. I think an online message board, like a social media platform, breed ones specific style of response: heated, polarized, 'hot take' opinions. People want bitch and moan and complain. They don't want to grab their phone and post about how they're relatively ambivalent (as VaBlue mentioned above). Social and online skews belief of opinion. Similarly, no rational person should look at the Live Game threads as representative of the overall opinion of the fanbase.
Like I mentioned above, I believe the majority of fans were somewhere in the middle, just like me. They weren't happy with the direction of the program. But didn't think that firing Harbaugh was the right idea. Including Brian and Seth who may have questioned how it was going to work, but that's not saying "Fire Harbaugh." I don't think either have claimed in recent years to be among those who "wanted him gone."
"It's to push back against the revisionist history that people weren't calling for Harbaugh's head."
But to your overall point... I'm not saying that people weren't calling for his head. I'm saying it wasn't plurality of the fanbase. It was maybe a plurality of people who tweet or post angry things on message boards. Definitely not the same thing.
January 27th, 2024 at 8:33 PM ^
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Including Brian and Seth who may have questioned how it was going to work, but that's not saying "Fire Harbaugh." I don't think either have claimed in recent years to be among those who "wanted him gone."
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From The Edge of Space:
"I was not in a mental space to regard 2020 as fake, which it now clearly was, and wanted someone other than Harbaugh in 2021."
It wasn't just the commenters (which I agree is going to be dominated by the hot-takes crowd), it was the blog staff too, who are as a rule both more inclined to the long view and more data-driven in their posts.
Now, it might be a matter of degree, but I think you're underestimating the degree to which Michigan fans were despondent about our prospects after 2020, and figure that even a long shot (new head coach) was better than continued 9-3/10-2 seasons with losses to OSU and MSU/PSU.
I imagine the Michigan fan zeitgeist as measured by front-page and board posts would make for a fascinating graph. This is probably more likely a diary topic, though.
January 26th, 2024 at 10:02 PM ^
Self-serving revisionism.
January 26th, 2024 at 3:20 PM ^
No, and I thought people who did were reactionary to say the least.
January 26th, 2024 at 3:25 PM ^
We are on the same page about that, then.
Did you have an opinion about the pay cut at the time when it happened? To me, it always seemed like a mistake.
I still think there's a good chance that Jim would be coaching in the NFL next year regardless.
January 26th, 2024 at 3:47 PM ^
I didn't like the idea, but Harbaugh seemed to be ok with it. Given the University and Michigan had rather draconian Covid restrictions impacting revenue perhaps the idea to save money for the AD could have come from Harbaugh himself.
My biggest issue at that point was if he would retain Don Brown. Brown had to go, he got figured out. Harbaugh got rid of him the way he gets rid of most people he seems to like but don't get it done, under his own terms.
It wasn't until he gave back that bonus when it became obvious Harbaugh didn't come up with that shit.
January 26th, 2024 at 4:26 PM ^
I am not convinced that the pay-cut was even performance related. The Department was looking at a potential $30 million deficit and belts needed to be tightened all around. Warde and Howard also took cuts.. This from a University press release at the time.
"As part of the expense reduction initiatives, Manuel, senior-level administrators, and many head coaches, including football coach and men's basketball coach , will accept 10 percent salary reductions from Aug. 1, 2020, through the end of the fiscal year. Full-time staff members earning between $50,000-$100,000 will have salaries reduced by five percent, and employees earning between $100,001-$150,000 will have wages reduced by 7.5 percent during the same period. Staff earning less than $50,000 will not see any reduction in pay."
"For the fiscal year 2020 operating budget, the Athletic Department projects an operating surplus of $1 million based on operating revenues of $187.4 million and operating expenses of $186.4 million. The operating surplus is a result of reduced operations and team activities. Looking ahead to fiscal year 2021, the department projects a deficit, based on operating revenues of $135.8 million and projected expenses of $161.9 million."
January 26th, 2024 at 5:52 PM ^
Except one thing. They could have cut his pay for one year if that was the case. I think it was fairly obvious by the end of the season 2020 that things would eventually get back to normal up there. They were already pretty normal most places. The revenue would come back then.
January 26th, 2024 at 3:22 PM ^
No, and I publicly supported and stumped for harbaugh- welcoming the downvotes and comments from trolls and haters. Catchafire was out here with me doing the same thing.
January 26th, 2024 at 3:23 PM ^
This could be the worst post in 2024 so far.
January 26th, 2024 at 3:49 PM ^
Cataloging them and rating them could be diary material at this point. But this one has my vote, too.
January 26th, 2024 at 5:54 PM ^
I really think mods should configure the OP threads to a -10 point cutoff. After that, your post gets auto-deleted. A true democracy as it were.
January 26th, 2024 at 6:09 PM ^
Yes, the infallible masses of the mgoboard should make the decisions, because we have a great track record with that.
After all, only popular, broadly held beliefs and opinions can be correct and those should be the only perspectives that are permissible to express. Who doesn't love a good echo chamber where sycophants get rewarded for groupthink?
Now, where is Hotel Putingrad?
January 26th, 2024 at 6:57 PM ^
Look, man. It's nothing personal. We all shit the bed every now and again.
January 26th, 2024 at 7:36 PM ^
Herein lies the problem with posts like yours. It’s probably a worthwhile discussion, and maybe your points or questions are even insightful to some degree. The issue is, and it appears it bears repeating, the board doesn’t need another “Team Warde vs Team Harbaugh” op-ed post or really anything discussing their relationship right now. It’s a moot point to the highest definition of the phrase.
I’m not saying folks shouldn’t post anything unpopular or even risqué but read the freaking room. Or in this case, board. But don’t worry, I’m sure we’ll get another “Warde really screwed this up” post any minute now…
January 26th, 2024 at 3:24 PM ^
I wasn't thinking "Fire Harbaugh!" in 2020. I was thinking "Fuck Covid!" and wondering why they even bothered having a season. Many of our best players sat out that year, and with the lack of depth it made for a rough season. I don't totally regret having a season though since it ultimately ushered in the changed that brought about the last 3 seasons. But in the moment, I was more pissed at Covid than Harbaugh.
January 26th, 2024 at 3:25 PM ^
If you are the AD and (arguably) the most successful football coach in university history, and one who happened to just win a natty, hates you... Then you've done a bad job.
Everything else is sort of secondary and also there's lots of bad there too. Your gold star resume action can't be "inaction back in 2020".
January 26th, 2024 at 4:47 PM ^
Harbaugh hates all his bosses. Has for decades. There is a pattern there.
January 26th, 2024 at 6:05 PM ^
Uhh Trent Balke seems to be disliked by everyone and I'm pretty sure Bowlsby at Stanford and JH had a very good relationship so I don't think this trend is what you think it is.
January 26th, 2024 at 3:26 PM ^
Can we not flirt with whatever the agro version of the bpone is 3 weeks after winning the national championship
January 26th, 2024 at 3:39 PM ^
Amen! They've been happier over at 11W these past weeks and all they've done is watch us win the national championship, hire the world's biggest bagman and pay millions to recruit players like Bama center Earthworm Jim who recently lost to us.
Smile, people!
January 26th, 2024 at 4:02 PM ^
BPONE
is that aggro enough?
BPONE!
January 26th, 2024 at 3:27 PM ^
Never wanted Harbaugh fired. Not blaming any one single person for Harbaugh leaving to pursue a life long goal.
January 26th, 2024 at 3:31 PM ^
You are a reasonable person and you have my respect.
January 26th, 2024 at 4:03 PM ^
haha at first i read that as "never wanted harbaugh hired" which would've been a bold stance to say the least
January 26th, 2024 at 4:48 PM ^
Exactly how I feel
January 26th, 2024 at 3:28 PM ^
It is not just one thing. I kind of was put off by how the Hockey situation was handled. I am not in the camp of firing or retaining Warde. But, his track rack hasn't been that good with Hockey, Basketball and Football. The whole suspension of Harbaugh for 6 games grinds me. Who else can I get my frustration out on?
January 26th, 2024 at 3:31 PM ^
We could take it out on Sparty and Ohio, but reality is Warde fucked the dog by being a dick to Harbaugh.
January 26th, 2024 at 3:32 PM ^
How about the NCAA or Tinpot Tony?
January 26th, 2024 at 3:35 PM ^
They are all fair game.
January 26th, 2024 at 10:05 PM ^
You really assume the suspension decision was made by Warde and not by Ono? I guarantee you it was the latter, who end up looking like an amateur during that drama.
January 26th, 2024 at 3:30 PM ^
I would not have fired him. But I also wouldn't have offered him the 50% paycut. IMO you should either be fully behind your coach, or you should let him go.
January 26th, 2024 at 3:36 PM ^
I agree with this.
But oh man, can you imagine the tantrums that would have followed?
Actually now that I think about it, the tantrums probably would have been more or less the same regardless.
January 26th, 2024 at 3:30 PM ^
Warde isn’t to blame JH came to Michigan but he was always going back to the NFL… Maybe if he flames out with the Chargers he will be back .
January 26th, 2024 at 3:30 PM ^
MAKE IT STOP!!!!!!!!!!!
January 26th, 2024 at 3:31 PM ^
Enough with all the damn editorializing on the same damn topic. Fer godsakes—YES I wanted to keep Harbaugh then and still am a staunch supporter of his.
Your demand that we exhaustively explain ourselves REPEATEDLY on why Warde should be fired because you have a varied OPINION is tedious.
Stop trifling.
January 26th, 2024 at 3:49 PM ^
We need 20 more posts about Warde...board is becoming unreadable
January 26th, 2024 at 7:13 PM ^
Becoming unreadable? You clearly arrived late to the party.