A question about Wagner’s shot
So in Wagner’s Hello Post (https://mgoblog.com/content/hallo-franz-wagner), it’s claimed that one of Wagner’s strengths is a quick release. He’s even compared to Klay Thompson, whom NBA fans know has a super quick shooting motion. But though, what, 20 or so games, his shot is nowhere near that fast. If anything, he looks like he loads up for a second before he shoots. Does anyone have any idea if his mechanics are still screwed up from his injury, or is this just highlights against shitty competition don’t translate to NCAA performance? I’m wondering because as everyone knows, his shooting % are way down from what was expected, so maybe that’s a result of the same problem?
February 4th, 2020 at 9:59 PM ^
Make shots. Who cares how or what it looks like.
February 5th, 2020 at 3:18 AM ^
He's shooting like 28% from 3 so I mean sure he technically makes shots but at a pretty shit rate
February 4th, 2020 at 10:01 PM ^
I said it wasnt quick way back then
But no clue as far as what's wrong haven't looked closely enough to see if mechanics changed, etc. I just know it'd be nice if he made a few more 3s than he does and maybe more importantly, he finished at the rim better.
February 4th, 2020 at 10:05 PM ^
I’m more concerned about missing open layups than speed of release...
February 4th, 2020 at 10:09 PM ^
He has so many shots half way down and pop out . Kinda feel bad for the kid
February 4th, 2020 at 10:22 PM ^
Slow and wide (both at bottom and top). His issue is he has to fully square and get into the base before he even begins to move upwards. A bit manufactured and mechanical right now. Didn’t seem to be quite this much so overseas
February 5th, 2020 at 1:47 AM ^
Overseas they pass and pass and pass until they find the open shooter.... he was used to having more time to set there... now he is slightly rushed and isn't used to it... Next year will see a jump.
February 4th, 2020 at 10:23 PM ^
In college I had a sprained wrist once that screwed my shot up for weeks in the offseason. And I had a fractured ring finger that messed my shot up for a whole season. Even after it healed, it felt like the ball was coming off my hand with a slightly sideways rotation, after having compensated to shooting with more push coming from my index and middle finger while it was healing. The point being, I didn't feel like I had my shot back until I took a break from shooting for a couple weeks after the season, came back, and started from scratch; a hundred shots from the block focusing on form, step back to the middle of the lane and repeat, free throw line repeat, and three point line repeat. Over and over, every day, until summer conditioning and open gyms started. I can't imagine trying to come back from a fractured wrist on the fly as a freshman playing D1 basketball. I have extremely high hopes for Wagner next season. If you watch, you'll see a lot of his long jumpers hit the inside of the rim and spin out. He does have some bad misses too, but he's right there on a lot of them, and I really think that could just be a product of his release and/or his load up being affected.
February 4th, 2020 at 10:46 PM ^
Seems like more of a launch/set shot than a pure jumper to me.
February 4th, 2020 at 10:48 PM ^
Bilas nailed it--takes him a sec to load it up. That said, he's also missing open looks. Snake-bit right now.
February 4th, 2020 at 11:07 PM ^
I think he just needs to get stronger. His shot is a bit of a push from 3. But at the FT line he gets good rotation. A lot of the shots rim out because the extra push creates a slight side rotation causing a lot of spin outs and heavy rims. On a side note, Brandon johns gets great rotation on his shot and could be a better shooter than Franz while Franz seems to use his length better on D. Weird that they almost have reversed expectations. I wonder if this staff works on shooting details like Belein did with his special hoops and hand placement drills.
February 4th, 2020 at 11:45 PM ^
I have never seen two players [Brooks & Wagner] miss as many wide open three point shots. Absolutely wide open. We are talking 4-6 per game combined. Half of them barely graze the rim. Absolutely wide open. I can’t comprehend it. 2-3 per player that would result in 6+ points per game. Unbelievable.
It would also be nice to make layups [Franz] and hit the rim with an occasional floater [Brooks].
February 5th, 2020 at 3:40 AM ^
Hard to really criticize Brooks this season considering he has made a dramatic improvement from last season
He went from 2.5ppg to 11.2ppg
He went from 29% from 3 to 39% from 3.
He had zero 10pt games last season. He already has FOUR 20pt games this season
He had an off game today but without Livers, Brooks is our best 3pt shooter and its not really close
February 5th, 2020 at 8:29 AM ^
Actually, and sadly, it is close. Brooks is only 30.6% in conference play, and Simpson is 28.9%. Wagner is at 26.5% and DDJ is at 20%. The lone bright spot is Johns Jr at a pretty remarkable 42.4%.
This team is just atrocious at shooting, which is a death blow when you combine the fact that none of them can attack the rim or draw fouls either. It's frustrating that Simpson gets a lot of blame, when he should be (and would prefer to be) the 5th option on a team with talent. Instead he's forced to be the team's leading scorer and only player capable of consistently driving and scoring in the lane.
February 5th, 2020 at 4:07 PM ^
You must have played the 2 or 3...I hope you were a damn good shooter.
This reminds me of the time when my dad, brother and I went to watch a HS game pitting two of my former teammates against each other-as coaches. They had been excellent HS players-running mates at guard-two years behind me. We had moved away 15 years earlier...had never seen their teams play...it was a two hour drive. On the way my brother asks "Who do you think is the better coach?". I laugh. "The PG is always the better coach."...and this will be the correct answer 90% of the time-for good reason...and it was on this visit.
There is a significant psychological component to shooting...shooters love "good vibrations", predictability and low pressure. Michigan's shooters have none of these factors working in their favor right now. And just so you know, Simpson is a direct problem here...he is over-assertive and overbearing and his teammates do not like him. This is a problem all the way around...the same thing happened last year...everyone holds at least some measure of blame. This, my friends, is a major reason Beilein left-he knew the likelihood of this happening was quite high...here it is again.
February 5th, 2020 at 3:25 AM ^
Look at his minutes. He’s playing an awful lot of minutes for a true freshman. He’s got dead legs.
February 5th, 2020 at 5:40 AM ^
Watching Wagner shoot reminds me of a line from Moneyball. The A’s scouting staff is discussing a prospect and a staff member says he’s a good hitter. Brad Pitt/Billy Bean, while looking at his statistics, says “If he’s a good hitter then why doesn’t he hit good?” If Wagner is regarded as such a good shooter then why doesn’t he shoot good? Maybe this is what he is.
February 5th, 2020 at 9:06 AM ^
I mean yeah only conclusion to draw after all this time youve given him to develop.
February 5th, 2020 at 1:05 PM ^
I have no doubt he’ll get better but we were sold on him being a great shooter and after seeing his statistics and strange looking form I think he might end up being just a good to ok shooter. I love the way Johns shot looks and I think he’ll end up a better 3 point shooter than Wagner.
February 5th, 2020 at 1:16 PM ^
I mean he shot 40% from 3 in Europe on the same length 3 point line, so it's not like he was never a good shooter
February 5th, 2020 at 5:07 PM ^
Plus he got a wrist injury on his shooting hand that pretty much will fuck things up for the season. His form hasn't been the same since then. He needs an offseason to get it back and get stronger.
February 5th, 2020 at 7:11 AM ^
He needs a lot of work.
February 5th, 2020 at 8:00 AM ^
Keep in mind that those evaluations come from people who thought Nunez had a shot that was as good as or better than Duncan Robinson.
February 5th, 2020 at 9:15 AM ^
Hand injury in preseason, adjusting to different country, different lifestyle, different style of basketball, new coach (rookie head coach at that), very different expectations of his contribution, team struggling overall.
Dude was never going to step in like the kind of recruit whos a lottery pick out of HS and any such expectation was just plain nonsense. Multiyear development is the story here. And it has to be said - I would have been a lot more confident about that with a great collegiate coach and educator like John Beilein at coach than a guy with zero collegiate coaching experience.
February 5th, 2020 at 10:57 AM ^
@LABound2 on Twitter, a good basketball follow, has this breakdown of Franz's shot:
A visual of shot mechanic issues with Franz:
Shot Pocket Too Close to Face/Under Chin
Elbow Cocked Out
Result = Shotput Motion
Reality is Franz was never really a great shooter
Despite ‘bad luck’, shooting woes can often be explained by flawed mechanics that are correctable
February 5th, 2020 at 5:09 PM ^
He shot 40% in German league as well as 90% FT shooter. His wrist injury on his shooting hand has robbed him from being able to get back to his normal self
February 5th, 2020 at 1:06 PM ^
I wondered the same thing about his wrist and his shooting. He seems to hesitate a long time before releasing. He sure does hustle though. Loved all of those rebounds he got last night.
February 5th, 2020 at 1:14 PM ^
It's hard to tell exactly what is wrong with his shot. Sometimes it seems like he rushes his shot and he isn't square, but sometimes he has all the time in the world and has a perfect release and still misses