Poole Summer League
Tearing it up. 17 points midway through the 3rd
hmn...almost like he was well-coached recently. Probably not an accident we churned out draft picks under JB even when they leave a little early.
Possible we could be grateful for JB, happy for Poole, and still be Michigan fans excited for the future and cheering on Howard, X, Teske, Wagner and the rest of the guys?
Who isn't those things?
See below.
"I want the entire pool scrubbed, sterilized, and disinfected!"
---Judge Smails, Caddyshack
DOODIE!!!
Don't you have homes?
Too bad he took a step back 3 on his career.
I should say I like Brian and mgoblog obviously but he definitely deserves a good ribbing.
You can save the ribbing for when he is producing in the regular season.
Why? It doesn't matter if he produces in the regular season or not. He was a first round pick and received a guaranteed contract for millions of dollars; his choice to turn pro has already been vindicated.
That is a tricky argument. It depends on whether you think another year in college would have significantly impacted his ability to produce at the pro-level. Was Stauskas' decision validated by being a lottery pick? Financially, yes, and since the primary goal of college is to make a living and get paid, sure, it was validated.
At the same time, Stauskas pro-career has been close to a disaster so far and it begs the question whether going pro when you are possibly not mentally or physically ready to do it may not serve players well. I'm sure there are players who develop better through development with professional coaches and players, there may be other players who may get ruined by making a move prematurely. I am not taking a side on the issue, just pointing out that there are different ways to judge or view a player's decision on whether to leave.
No it's really not that tricky of an argument. He is going to make $2M this year for playing basketball, not to mention being able to profit from his image, sponsorship, etc.
Even if we are generous and said he had a monster year and went #15 next draft, you are talking about making ~$2.7M. He absolutely made the right decision and any hypothetical about his development at Michigan vs. the NBA is just that - a speculative and unsolvable hypothetical.
Not everything is that simple, man. For every player you find who is happy to get that 2 mil because they left early you could find another one who thinks they could have put themselves in a much better position to succeed long term if they would have stayed another year. You may think that everything in the world is cut and dry and there is only one side to every issue but that just isn't reality and is just your opinion.
you assume, likely falsely, that a player like stauskus would improve more with another year of college with practice time and school restrictions then practicing with virtually unlimited restrictions under his nba coaches.
I don't make that assumption. I assume that there are players, maybe Stauskas maybe not, who are talented enough to get paid guaranteed money that would be better off staying in college for another year for their long term development, both physically and mentally. That should not be a controversial take in any way.
It is controversial because you are arguing that a player could be more likely to develop with less practice time. This flies in the face of everything we know about everything.
"For every player you find who is happy to get that 2 mil because they left early you could find another one who thinks they could have put themselves in a much better position to succeed long term if they would have stayed another year."
I think that is wrong and hyperbole. There are dozens of underclassmen who declare every year for the NBA draft and I don't believe you can find the same number of people that then turn around and regret that decision.
There are certainly some situations that come to mind (injuries, one glaring weakness to be improved, etc.) but I would say it's pretty rare and also there is no guarantee that these situations 1) will ever get resolved and 2) would get resolved more quickly / better in college than in a professional environment (NBA or not).
I never said the world is cut and dry - I simply said that Jordan Poole made a good decision, and there's not much that is tricky about saying that.
I never disagreed as to Poole.
It looks like you are looking for an argument where no argument exists.
LMAO - go back and look at the chain.
4roses said wait until the regular season to evaluate the deal => Trader Jack says the regular season is irrelevant because Poole is getting paid (guaranteed money), thus validating his decision => You respond and say that it "is a tricky argument".
Nothing personal, but seems pretty clear to me
Devil’s advocate: he may not get a second contract, or it may be of way less long term less value, if he does not develop. Yet, he could have been blessed by mentors in Splash Bros.
I was one who believed he would be drafted in the early second round, not surprised by late first, because UM fans are hard on players who leave earlier and only pick out their flaws while ignoring that virtually every NCAA player coming out has inconsistencies in their games.
Part of seeing his decision as wise or not depends on, for some of us, how long he stays in the League and develops.
Not a Poole fan. I wish him well, but he was a big disappointment last year. Mentally, he was so disengaged...
There's a bevy of you here who wouldn't know basketball talent if it grabbed you by the ass and dragged you down the street. Things happen for a reason and sometimes they are out of your control. Jordan should have been a star-he wasn't afforded much opportunity here-he wasn't happy about it-he was/is a kid...life goes on. Y'all should demand of yourself what you demanded of him.
Well said...
I don’t think it was a lack of opportunity. He had plenty of chances with the ball in his hands. He had a 20% usage rate and it was much higher earlier in the season. He just proved that he was inefficient and inconsistent in those chances and JB shifted toward giving Simpson the ball in his hands at almost all times. Poole doesn’t have to like that but that also doesn’t mean he didn’t get a chance. And it also doesn’t mean he isn’t good enough. He was our most talented player. Just needed more time to mature as a well rounded basketball player and we would have seen him blow up here. But I don’t fault him at all for leaving
Bacon, in a vacuum you two are saying the same thing. However, there is only one instance in which X on any team gets the ball in his hands more than Poole. On any team, and that happened at Michigan. He was just out of place at times and also indecisive yes, but he couldn’t spend another year waiting for the ball to get to him off of 3 or 4 picks so he bolted.
I just reject the idea that it was out of Poole's control and that he wasn't given opportunity. He unequivocally did have the opportunity. I do think he would be in similar circumstances at places like Virginia and MSU where there's a system in place and it's the coach's way or the highway (similar to JB at Michigan). And other schools would have given him a ton more freedom.
Poole made the right choice and I've said that all along. Sucks we couldn't reap the benefits of his development, but I think it was best for all parties that he leave if he was unsatisfied with his role even if I think that unsatisfaction is mostly due to his inability to take advantage of his chances.
This is a false narrative-especially regarding Poole's early vs late usage. So PooIe's usage was higher when they were going 17-0 but he was actually playing poorly so they reduced his usage and were better even though they lost a bunch of games and the offense went into the toilet??? Whatever. The fact is that the opposition increasingly schemed to deny Poole and Brazdeikis more quality opportunities-it worked- and Beilein failed to make appropriate adjustments...plain and simple. I truly believe this is very much related to why Beilein left...as much as the opportunity to move to the pro ranks. He screwed up here and did not want to confront/deal with the mess of making/or not the required adjustments. There are so many goofy, nonsensical scenarios to the timing of his leaving-so out of character.
I remain most curious how this season plays out. The roster may be okay-it's hard to tell based upon last year. Howard has the opportunity/option to take the style of play, the Xs and Os and the personnel usage in a different direction. I am intrigued by the possibilities.
Re: Beilein
I agree that he checked out last year, but I disagree as to the reasons. I think Beilein actually really wanted to coach in the NBA. I don't think even he believed that he would perform at Michigan to such a degree that he would be a coach coveted by NBA teams. I don't think it was a "dream come true" type of thing, but a "holy shit I can coach in the NBA if I want." I think the flirtation with the Pistons was real, and that he would have taken the job if it was offered.
The Pistons did not hire some schmuck, I think they were really interested in Beilein but did not think the could pass on Casey, so they passed on Beilein. I think it was a genuine disappointment to him. I do think that he stopped really coaching this team (basically when he got thrown out against Penn State), but I don't think it was because he had a problem he could not fix, I just think he thought he was getting hired by the Pistons and had kind of moved on mentally from college coaching and could not re-invest.
We were only 17-0 because we weren't playing as many good teams in the first half of the season as we did in the second because that's what happens when you're in a power conference. Obviously had some quality opponents in nonconference, but alot of duds too.
Defense is always tougher in conference play. Our offense typically slows down in conference play as well. Which means JB is gonna place a higher emphasis on efficiency. Which means more X-Teske because that was our best offense. People have broken this down, so I don't really feel a need to rehash it. Go read UMHoops or listen to the Moving Screen or the Mgo podcasts. Also, go take a look at Poole's FGA in our losses.
As for JB leaving because he failed to make enough adjustments? I find that insanely laughable. He adjusted his offense plenty during his tenure at Michigan. I don't think he was afraid to do it again. I think he left because he was tired of dealing with the unpredictability of roster turnover in college and wanted to challenge himself. Everybody interviewed after he left talked about how competitive he was. Makes no sense for him to leave because he didn't want to confront our inability to score against teams that could switch on defense.
Yeah. Drilling Villanova, Purdue and North Carolina were aberrations!!!!!!!
Otherwise your points are pointless-context is everything. I would be very curious what actual real-time experience you have that informs you about this great game. If you believe the media is a well-informed source of basketball knowledge-then heaven help you. This game is nuanced ad infinitum. Folks sitting on the couch drinking beer don't have a clue-doesn't matter how much they watch or love the game. You can believe what you want from whatever informs you but Beilein screwed up big-time the second half of the season-you are what your record says you are. And if Beilein was so competitive he would have come back to redeem the second half of last season.
The fact is that the opposition increasingly schemed to deny Poole and Brazdeikis more quality opportunities-it worked- and Beilein failed to make appropriate adjustments
Beilein most definitely did not look like a coaching savant last year. I'm not going to speculate on why, but if that's what he would have been for the next couple years I'm not sad to see him go. That team was propped up by elite defense - something that Beilein delegated.
Now that's a spicy hot take. You would rather not have the winningest coach in program history - just one season removed from a Final Four and back-to-back conference tourney titles, and just had 30+ wins and a Sweet 16, top 10 ranking most of the year - not come back because he had one less than great season on the offensive end despite him being widely considered one of the top offensive minds in the game?
Sorry if I think that's a little crazy.
Mr. Poole is that you? We as fans have the right to be fans, or non fans, as we see fit
Yep, glad he hit the shot against Houston for us and was able to get paid for himself. Besides that, mostly indifferent to how he performs now.
Poole, as a sophomore, lived up to its Greek meaning of a wise fool. He displayed both last year, which explains his up and down play and mood swings. He's grown up from that experience and GSW will reap the benefits. No need to rip Poole or Beilein since they've both moved on and I'm sure will be happy to see each other next season.
No need to relitigate. But if we wanted to :). Poole had a rough back half of the year, but he needed to get the ball more, not less. He had the best combination of shooting, passing, etc. on the team last year. Most NBA teams realize how many reps a guy needs in the pick and roll to be successful. Ie, it takes time. Michigan made an error last year in not shifting more towards JP pick and rolls to allow him to grow a bit. I know it kills Michigan fans to admit this, but a great coach probably made the wrong decision last year when the offense sputtered.
Beilein had an obsession with not turning the ball over and making sure players understood every single part of the system before stepping onto the court. Sometimes he obsessed about this to a fault. For example, Brooks (minimal upside) was constantly given lots of minutes while DDJ was played sparingly (way higher upside). DDJ playing would have meant more turnovers and more lapses in rotations but the upside and experience he would have gained would have been worth it. DDJ needed those reps, not Brooks.
Similarly, by moving away from JP on the P&Rs, the team's ceiling was capped. Yeah, we avoided some turnovers in the growing pains of JP learning, but what did it matter that we didn't turn the ball over when our offense then turns out to be X trying to run P&R and then no one getting an open shot. DeAngelo Russell is a great example of a player just needing reps. He looked like he wasn't going to turn out to be an all star player early in his career. But then once he gets to Brooklyn and is given the appropriate reps and time, he becomes an all star.
Poole is going to be the rare example of the player that will prosper more from being outside of Beilein's super structured offense. It seemed to me that the McGary, Stauskas era of Beilein teams had the ability to free lance and play more high octane than the later teams did and Poole really struggled with that. The Beilein fundamentals are on full display though.
summer, Poole party season
On the subject of summer league, anybody notice who's coaching OKC's team?
Dave fucking Bliss.
Hasn't changed a lick. He's in charge of a prep school program in LV and his middle-school team got caught this year using ineligible players; the Nevada HS federation has "tabled indefinitely" their request for membership.
To be fair, I suppose things have improved a bit over the last 20 years. At least nobody got murdered and he didn't have try to talk a bunch of seventh-graders into lying to the police.