OTish: What is the most important position group on a football team?
Position Group.
1) DL
2) OL
3) QB
4) arguements can be made for everything else here down.
In support of Champeen's list, you can make a compelling case for DL being number 1.
What we don't have is a picture of the offensive lineman Branch ran over to get to the QB. Whoever that guy was is proof that its the offensive line. I think Anthony Morelli would agree,
Fair point. However, you could equally argue that a highly skilled defensive lineman (Branch) was able to defeat the offensive lineman and hit Morelli before he could complete a TD pass. Anyone who watched Michigan's DL the last couple years and its failure to apply pressure on the QB or stop the run might agree.
No...it's because there is no picture of Branch running over an OL here. This was a stunt where AB lined up as NT and nailed Morelli pretty much untouched as we had a plethora of bigtime DLs that no one could collectively block. The DLINE was the difference in this game period. Ironically Morelli completed this pass for a first down, but this was the key play as PSU had no little chance without Morelli as this knocked him out of the game.
Edit, I actually found the play
Yeah except you don't get to actually see the hit.
Here you go:
Probably would have gotten a roughing the passer penalty if it happened now.
I believe they are in the picture showing how much they really like their QB.
One of the Lines. Not sure which.
Offensive line and in my humble opinion it's not even close.
Yup.
See also: Patrick Mahomes running for his life in the Super Bowl.
That Tampa Bay DL was also the best in the league, by far. If I recall correctly, KC had some key injuries to the OL, but they still made it to the Super Bowl...
So is that an argument for O-Line or having an elite QB?
Argument that it’s not so clear between OL/DL/QB
Agreed on the OL. 5 of the 11 offensive starters are a part of an elite unit. In order to be an elite multiple players on the OL will be AA worthy.
I co-sign, with DL second choice.
I agree. My vote goes OL
Coaching.
John L. Smith disagrees.
Couldn't find a gif of Smith slapping himself.
Thanks Don!
Today's football:
QB
Just look at KC, Green Bay, and a few of those Patriots teams.
Absolutely has to be QB. IMO it's not even close.
I agree with this. You can be "average" with a great OL, but you'll never be great without a QB. There are some exceptions that will be brought up, but for the most part it's QB and it's not particularly close.
That exception is Trent Dilfer. You're welcome.
Rex Grossman: Super Bowl quarterback.
/drops mic
This depends so much on how you define and divide position groups. Is DL a position group, or do you divide it into DTs and DEs? What about OLBs in a 3-4 defense? On offense, does the OL get subdivided? What about various flavors of WRs, TEs, and RBs?
Operating on the assumption that the OL is a single unit, I would choose either OL or QB. An elite OL can elevate otherwise average QBs and RBs. Similarly, an elite QB (presumably with some mobility) can hide sins on the OL and make pedestrian WRs look great.
Subdivided? Ummm no. Let’s not overthink this.
I'm sorry, were you otherwise overwhelmed with sports topics to debate this afternoon? We have nothing to do but overthink absurd hypotheticals. It's basically the board's raison d'etre during the offseason.
I agree that raisins are wonderful, but what we are talking about here is football. Specifically, football position groups. Discussing these types of things is practically the general purpose of our little soiree. What is d'etre anyway... Some kind of jelly?
Jelly? I suppose you could classify it as jelly. It's that weird residue left in the box after you eat all the raisins.
i thought thats what made the box edible?
An excellent take that did not deserve to be negged. +1 to you.
My first thought is/was QB, but upon more thought, I think it's OL. An excellent OL can protect the QB and open up the running game, making the QB's job easier. An excellent QB can mitigate the performance of a poor OL, but only to a point.
Overall, for a team to be successful, it needs strong OL and DL, solid QB play, and excellent corners/safeties. But OL overall is most important.
QB, OL, DL are the top three. I think arguments could be made for any but personally think QB is top. 30 years ago, DL would be top.
I would move DL down that list. The current advanced stats wisdom seems to be coalescing around the idea that coverage is more valuable than pass rush. If you want to pick a defensive position group, choose CB or S.
How does advanced stats separate the two? Having an amazing pass rush greatly improves your coverage ability right? Having elite coverage helps your pass rush, but does nothing for your run defense.
Here's PFF's initial analysis on the subject. Funny enough, it addresses your questions. First, good coverage improves pass rush by forcing QBs to wait longer to throw, giving pass rushers more time to get home. Second, teams throw far more than they used to, which decreases the relative importance of run defense.
Hell no. DBs, particularly corners, depend on sound line play, not the other way around.
See the legion of boom
I don't want it to be quarterback, but it's quarterback
Coaching.
Games are won and lost on the line scrimmage.
More so in the 80's and less so in today's game. QB is key.
Offensive Line. If they have no penalties, allow QB to throw/plays develop and steam roll on run-plays, generally that's the team that wins.
Go Blue.
Offensive line. Michigan fans have a natural tendency to overrate the QB value because of their recent experiences. A dominant OL allows the QB, running backs, and receivers to produce above their natural level.
Would have to say elite DL, The Dline would make average CBs and LBs look elite, and not only that, but they generate offense (in the form of field position, forced fumbles, and interceptions from newly-skittish QBs)
Offensive line. With an elite OL but average backs and receivers, you always pose a threat both on the ground and in the air, and you can design an offense that can cause problems regardless of how the opponent plays you.
If you have an elite DL but an average back 7, the opponent can use a lot of quick throws to limit the impact of your DL.
Blog posters, clearly the most important position group if you want an elite team.
Hear hear!