OT: Wings future
How does everyone see the offseason playing out for the wings?
I think you gotta bring in a young goalie with experience (Varlemov or Rinne maybe) to help them get through the regular season and then Babcock can decide wether to use Ozzy or not in the playoffs. Not sure how good Conklin is because I only watch random games throughout the regular season.
I hope they resign Hossa and let go of Samuelson. I also hope they lock up Helm for a long term contract.
I hate to say this, but Nick Lidstrom is getting older and Ericson/Kronwall don't seem to be heir apparents to take the job from Nicky. Id like to see them pick up a big, rugged, physical defender and a faster skilled defender to help with the D.
No one is going to be the heir apparent to perhaps the greatest defenseman in NHL history. I think Kronwall is above average and Ericsson has the potential to be really good.
If the Wings somehow lose on Friday night (knock wood) I don't see the Hossa thing being an issue since he will have probably jumped off the roof of the Joe rather than face 5 months of hockey media stories about his decision to leave the Pens backfiring.
Who are you, Mike Emrick??? Or just someone else who works on the NHL on NBC programming??
GREAT defenseman, sure. Hall of Famer, check. But greatEST???
2nd, behind Bobby Orr. Not even close, really. Those Ross Trophies will never be matched by a defenseman.
I agree with him. Lidstrom is the greatest defenseman of the modern era, and second behind Orr overall. It's tough to argue against Orr. He changed the position like no one else.
Hossa is working on a long term deal right now. It will be somewhere around 7 years.
I'd also like him to work on scoring a goal or five on Friday.
Yeah, he hasn't done anything so far.
is bright. It's brighter than that of any NHL franchise. It has been this way for the last two decades, and as long as Ken Holland is the general manager, and Mike Babcock the head coach, it will remain this way.
P.S. I really hope they get the job done with Hossa. I know he has been MIA in the finals, but I really do like the cat, and think he can be a really great long term player. Plus, I could see myself buying a jersey with 81 on the back.
Detroit goes 7 games and suddenly people lose their shit. Are you fucking kidding me? *deep breath*
"I think you gotta bring in a young goalie with experience (Varlemov or Rinne maybe) to help them get through the regular season and then Babcock can decide wether to use Ozzy or not in the playoffs."
What the fuck? Did you just recommend that Detroit should go after Pekka Rinne and Simeon Varlemov? What the fuck? Do you realize this is akin to asking for Sidney Crosby or Alex Ovechkin? Simeon Varlemov is the single most coveted goalie prospect in the league, the Rinne is the only thing going right for that Godforsaken franchise in Nashville. Bypassing the insanity of your proposal, you then go onto say we should then wait to decide to play Osgood in the playoffs despite having the kind of goalie prospect that comes along once every 10 years...you know what, just fuck it. I can't even dignify a response to this digusting fairy tale any further.
"I hope they resign Hossa and let go of Samuelson. I also hope they lock up Helm for a long term contract. "
No worries here. This is a reasonable statement, which is likely to come true. re: Helm. They're in no hurry. He'll get locked up eventually.
"I hate to say this, but Nick Lidstrom is getting older and Ericson/Kronwall don't seem to be heir apparents to take the job from Nicky. Id like to see them pick up a big, rugged, physical defender and a faster skilled defender to help with the D."
Son of a biscuit eating bulldog son of a bitch. First, why would you hate to say that about Lidstrom? The dude is ancient. This is a fact. He's also still the best defenseman in the league. That's also a fact. Kronwall has proven to be an excellent 2nd-pairing defensemen - a possible All Star once or twice in his career but maybe not quite strong enough to be a top-pairing guy. And then you go and pass judgement on Ericsson, who hasn't played an entire year in the NHL - yet has already showed glimpses that he might be one of the best young defensemen in the league. You might not think he's an heir apparent, but Detroit sure does.
Everyone would like another rugged D guy. We have no shortage of skilled defenders. The team has almost zero holes, and for you to jump off a cliff right now is fucking hilarious and pathetic. And when they hoist the Cup on Friday, I hope God has mercy on your soul.
Footnote: We also have some pretty damn good goaltender prospects in our system, including 2008 first rounder Thomas McCollum - who's about as good as it gets in minors right now.
It was only a matter of time before someone shit the bed on the Red Wings actually having to go to a game 7 in the finals. My brother and I had this same conversation the other day, here is what we came up with.
Playoff bust (debatable, I don't think he is) or not, Marion Hossa needs a long term deal. The cap is going to come down this year and I think he'd be smart enough to take a little bit less cash over the long haul, take the stability, and get 2 or 3 more stabs at the cup over that period.
Can we please get rid of Samuelsson? I've hated this guy for three years now. He's 33 years old, and had a +/- of 0 this year. Not only that but he's kind of a pussy. On Kennedy's goal tonight he swung his stick aimlessly at him while cutting away from him. He puts a body on him and that shot never happens.
Anyone who thinks/ wants Lidstrom to retire needs to be beaten about the face with a series of horse dicks. He's still the best defenseman in the league. Here, I'll repeat that: HE IS STILL THE BEST DEFENSEMAN IN THE LEAGUE!
Helm, yes, universal agreement.
Quick synopsis: You say stupid things. Horse dicks on face.
Horse dicks not directed at Huss. Directed at OP.
Hossa has been a playoff bust can go suck a fuck. He's been fantastic - he just hasn't scored. And fortunately in a sport like hockey, stats alone don't determine your value. He's always brought pressure offensively, and his defense has been top-notch. He is great. If you think otherwise, you are a damned idiot and very, very wrong.
I won't say anything about Samuellson. He fits well in the system, but he is a bonehead at times.
that tonight was his first bad game of the playoffs. But again, many of the Wings played bad games, especially the first two periods. I'll give the Penguins credit, they came to play today. The only thing that made this game close was Osgood. But, back on topic, Hossa has played extremely well. His strength and speed have been a huge asset to the Wings all playoffs and his ability to spread teams out in the defensive zone has been outstanding. It would be nice to see him get a goal in game 7, but mostly just for the sake of him helping us put away the Penguins, who I hate, all of them.
Nba cap might decrease, but all I've heard about nhl cap is up.
You are right. Cap should go up to 56.3 million. I was wrong.
Defeat conceded.
I think what I should have said was "there will be fewer teams this year that will be willing to pay Hossa the full amount that he would have made following last year. Also, few of these teams will be cup contenders because most of these teams have already spent lots wrapping up their key contributors and superstars."
The current cap is $56.7 million, and as far as what I've read, should remain basically the same for next year. There are a lot of people way more knowledgeable about this than I am, but I've read the 2010-11 cap should be reduced to somewhere closer to the $54-55 range.
Where the fuck did I get 56.3 from then?
Well, my main point still stands. Horse dicks.
Not for you, FTR.
Really know how the cap moves up or down. I, for one, have no clue. I've just heard from various media outlets that the cap will go up. Some on the radio, some internet pieces, nothing all that solid, but whenever I hear or see anything about the cap, it seems to indicate upwards movement. Although that's what they normally do I guess, cap doesn't usually decrease, at least not in the nfl or nba. Granted they are doing better than hockey, and bball cap is supposed to go down this year, hockey is finding the right capspace and pressure from the players union is always there to push it up.
Hossa has a long term deal, no question about it.
Samuelson will probably go.
Hudler will be back.
Wings dominate in game 7.
The wings won't dominate. It will be close, unfortunately.
What about this guy? Seems every f-ing turnover in the Wings' zone is directly related to this putz being on the ice. I believe he has 2 assists for the Pens and has scored a goal for them this series.
that Nicky wasnt the best in the NHL and one of the top Dmen ever. But yes, hes old and starting to slow down. If I had a dime everytime a loose puck is up for grabs but he just doesn't have the speed to go and get it, and rather play stick in the lane, Id be a millionaire. Granted, 99.9% of the time he gets his stick on it and deflects it or is in great position. But the times he doesn't, it ends up in the back of the net. Like I said, it just is annoying to lose puck races. I want Nicky to retire when he wants to.
And about the goaltender thing. I don't follow minor hockey so I don't know about any minor goalies or prospects. Its not out of the realm that the Wings go out and pay for a big name goalie. I should have checked to see what each players contract looks like but I didn't. My bad.
I think the Wings will win game 7 and the future looks bright. Im just saying what I would like to see next year. No cliff jumping for me. So you can take that horse dick and shove it.
The reason that Nick Lidstrom is still able to play is because his game has ALWAYS been about stick work. He rarely plays the body, and has never been the fastest guy on the ice. He always plays in position and always uses his stick before he plays the body. He was a +31 on a team that decided they didn't really want to play defense until the playoffs and he ran the point (with Rafalski) on the best power play in the league. You see Lidstrom getting beat to pucks while people with hockey knowledge watch him never getting out of position.
Horse dicks still apply.
give this guy a fruitcake.
Lidstrom has never won a footrace. Winning a race to a loose puck is just one battle. Lidstrom's already thinking ahead to the next one - and he almost always wins that one.
It's not out of the realm? Despite the fact that we had our chances to make moves at goaltender, and instead invested money on skaters like Hossa and Stuart while putting just 2 million COMBINED on our two NHL goaltenders? Holland has a very smart business model. And at the end of the day, namedropping guys like Varlemov is insanity.
I would love for Detroit to be able to pick up a goalie like Rinne or Varlamov, but there's no way. Varlamov is signed through the 2010-11 season, and Rinne though next year. Nashville will be absolutely stupid to not sign Rinne to a long-term deal, since he's all they have in net. Washington will eventually sign Varlamov to a long-term deal, but I'd guess they wait to see how he performs during the regular season next year before negotiating. Unless Detroit starts dealing away their big-money players, they won't be able to afford a top-flight young goalie anytime soon regardless.
I'm more interested to see how Detroit deals with the salary cap reduction in the next few years, especially if they decide to sign Hossa long-term. Detroit already has by far the lowest percentage of their salary tied up in goalies, so they better hope that at least one of Howard, McCollum, and Larsson develops into a viable starter soon, because Osgood is, at least in my opinion, running out of gas in his career.
Also, horse dicks.
my point. I guess I am blaming a team problem on Nicky. The Wings D is a finesse unit that loses alot of puck battles to bigger/stronger teams. I mean, Darren Fucking Helm is our best/most willing hitter on the team.
From what I've seen from Ericson, he's 6'4 205 and gets pushed around like a 110 y.o. grandma in a wheelchair. Personally, I dont see him as a viable Dman on a 3 deep pairing.
And yes, naming varlamov/rinne may not have been the best choice, but I was more aiming at a group of young/promising goaltender than specific ones.
And my horse dick comments still apply to you as well.
What the fuck else do you want out of Lidstrom? His entire career has been predicated on being the smartest guy on the ice. He's never been a big hitter like Phaneuf or Kronwall, he's never been an elite skater like Niedermayer or Mike Green, he's just been the most consistently excellent two-way defenseman in the NHL for about a decade now. 6 fucking Norris trophies in the last 7 seasons and you are complaining about him not being physical enough?
Ericsson is 24, he's played all of 24 NHL regular season games in his career to this point, and he was the goddamn last person selected in the 2002 draft. Realistically he should never have even made the NHL. I think he's perfectly fine as a 3rd line defenseman. I'll give you that, right now, he's not a top-4 guy, but Detroit doesn't need him to be right now. How many teams in the NHL right now can you name where Ericsson wouldn't make the team as at least a 3rd line defenseman?
Like I said above, you can't get a young promising goaltender from another team without shipping out tons of assets in a trade. They won't be available as unrestricted FAs until they are about 27 or so, and even then most teams will negotiate long before that becomes an issue. Detroit's done a stellar job building their team through the draft, and they have 3 decent minor league goalies right now. All they need is for one of them to develop into a viable NHL starter. I mean, Osgood is a historically underrated goalie, but he's not exactly Patrick Roy or Martin Brodeur, yet he's one game away from winning as many Cups as both of them (I don't count 97 for him, as Vernon was the goalie for that playoff run).
So, in essence, horse dicks.
No homo.
Kronwall, Stuart, Lilja and (yes) Ericsson are "gritty" guys.
And even if they're not - these are the fucking defensemen for the defending Cup champions. You're suddenly questioning the teams makeup and philosophy because...fuck if I know...you saw Ericsson get pushed off a puck once or twice? Get bent.
Get over the Lidstrom part. Last thing I'm going to say about him. He's my favorite Wing and hes still the best Dmen in the league. That being said, I think we need to get a little younger/faster on the line below him to try to fill in the Dman for the future. Id like to see a top 2 liner Dman added, because I don't think Ericson has the potential to be one.
And point taken on the goalies, I guess we'll have to wait and see how the minor goalies turn out.
And I guess I should throw and honorary Horse Dick comment here.
I think that you may have missed that part where the NHL had a lockout and then added a salary cap. Where would the Wings get the money to sign another elite defenseman? They have to pay Lidstrom's salary next year whether he plays or not. I doubt that Rafalski is going anywhere. Holland's comments have led me to believe that he still intends to sign Hossa. The only way I can see that happening is for Lilja to get traded, Holmstrom to retire and both Hudler and Sammuelsson (sp?) walk.
Seriously, go over to capgeek.com and play with the numbers yourself.
who is getting bent in here. I made a few statements about what I hope happens next year. Here, let me type real big for you so you can understand. NEXT YEAR. One more time? NEXT YEAR. Just to make sure you understand. FUCKING NEXT YEAR.
The Wings makeup/philosphy this year is fucking dandy. Puck possession. I get it. But theres a saying that you don't stay the same, you either get better or you get worse. So why wouldnt you look to improve for next year.
Yes, Kronwall/ Stuart are gritty players. Lilja is still suffering from a concussion. And no, Ericson is a 200lb pussy. If he ever hit someone I'd shit myself.
someone has a bromance with Ericsson and can't see past it.
And I think you missed Ericsson fighting Corey Perry.
And you're daydreaming about next year?? GAME SEVEN, MAN-- THERE IS NO NEXT YEAR!
I said I believe the Wings are going to beat the Pens in game 7. Then we can all get drunk and celebrate. But there is such thing as next year, and if you cant grasp that, you are an idiot.
I think you're missing my point, friend.
But you can only hear so many "All that matters is the next game, We have to play our game, We have to execute better, fundamentals" before it gets old. Everyone knows this but you dont need to hear it 5002843096y502389 times. Sports cliche phrases are FTL.
not to join the whole this guy is a total Dbag group, which, by the way, is a growing demographic.
You're not helping me.
The Redwings are the model organization of hockey, and have shown a proven ability to harvest talent both from the farm and in the FA pool. For every aging player, there's someone ready to step up and assume their spot. Abelkader is a prime example of how the rich are just getting richer. There's a generation of fans in Toronto and 20 other cities that'd kill to have your team's 'problems.' For you to sit and... no, I'll stop there. And maybe so should you.
it's probably closer to "Toronto and 28 other cities".
Wings are an absolute machine right now, especially when it comes to the men upstairs.
My boss thinks they're more like a pickup game.
I concede. I meant to get everyone's opinions on moves that the Wings might/should make. I see we have many differing opinions and that's OK. Didn't mean to come across as a D bag and if I did, I apologize.
The Wings are the best/most reliable franchise in hockey. I just think there's a few ways that they could improve, whether those ways are irrational or not, im sure there's people way more knowledgeable in hockey than I am.
... and you get horse dicks on your face.
Not a good day for you over all.
he doesn't enjoy horse dicks on his face? maybe that's a good day for him, you don't know!
get your fascination with horse dicks. Awkward.
I agree with you that it is important to look to next year, but let's get past Friday first.
However, what do you suggest Detroit does as far as trades/free agency goes? There aren't many young top-flight defensemen available as free agents this year. I'd love for Detroit to sign Bouwmeester, but they won't be able to match what other teams will throw at him (he'll command $6-7 million). If Los Angeles is unable to get JMFJ under contract, I'd like to see Detroit throw him an offer sheet, but LA will likely match whatever Detroit can offer (I don't think Detroit can afford to go beyond $2-3 million).
I think we should just sit back and let the young guys develop. Of the nominal playoff starters, only Lidstrom and Rafalski are over 30. And we still have a few guys on Grand Rapids who could see some time next year due to the inevitable injuries. Detroit can't get crazy this offseason because they have to plan for the prospects of the salary cap reduction that's likely to happen for the 2010-11 season due to the shitty economy lately.
Friday is first and foremost. I know we have an excellent minors program and trust management, but I do see a potential minor weakness in a few years if our minor Dmen don't pan out and we don't sign a 2nd line Dman in the near future.