OT: What's a Buckeye to do? UFA/1L?
There are several MGoLawyers on this site, and there have been at least a few recent posts about law school and the profession, so I thought this might be worth posting:
http://abovethelaw.com/2012/05/potential-nfl-rookie-is-about-to-make-th…
You'll see that the tone is a bit annoying (even if the issues are real). Also, Sweat's father is apparently in a position to help him with future employment.
If he's being serious, he's dismissing the possibility that Sweat is simply tired of playing football and/or is actually eager to start studying law for its own sake. As for the blithe dismissal of the possible concerns about concussions and impact-related dementia, it's Sweat's head at risk, not the writer's.
I don't think the writer realizes that some people may not want to play football for their entire lives. I he just doesn't want to play anymore or want to study law more how could you call that a mistake? Also law school has a much more sustainable earning potential than being an undrafted free agent.
Yeah, when your father has his own law firm, it makes law school a much better economic choice.
Has been discussing the futility of law school for a while now; especially when you don't go to a top 20 school. That's the only thing they're really concerned with. So there is a definite slant to the piece. I wouldn't take it as a fully objective analysis.
Let's also state the obvious: Andrew Sweat was going to be cut in August at some point. This is not like Andrew Luck choosing Law School over the NFL.
Agree if Sweat was a 1-4th round draft pick with a 6-7 figure signing bonus and at least a few guaranteed years, that's one thing.
Also, nepotism helps. Having a job waiting for you when you graduate is a nice feeling. However, even though Above the Law has an axe to grind, it IS a tough legal market.
http://uk.news.yahoo.com/dewey-chronicles-rise-fall-legal-titan-003142879--finance.html
When law firms founded by early 1900 presidential candidates die, things may not be going well (yes I know their problems were compounded by debt taken on with the merger of Dewey & LeBoef, and the payout structure guaranteed to rainmaking partners probably sealed their fate not just the legal market)
Unusual for me to support a Buckeye, but it's the kid's career and health. Good for him for being willing to make the unconventional choice that he believes is right for him.
The guy who writes Above the Law is a jaded soul who believes career choices should be based upon purely economic motives. Unsurpisingly, this led him to becoming very disenchanted with his profession after law school.
Andrew Sweat made the right choice if he wants to be a lawyer. He may not know that until he actually becomes one, but if he does, he made the right choice.
If, like the author of Above the Law, "right career choice" can be reverted to a mathematical equation, then perhaps there is a strong argument that he should give the NFL a try before going forward with his legal career.
But he's also pretty realistic about the legal job market
If you think a legal career was your ticket to print money, then yes, his take on the legal job market is accurate. However, from what I myself have experienced as well as seen from my fellow graduates (Top 50ish law school, graduated probably somewhere just above middle of my class), I think the opportunities just take a few years of toiling at less than ideal positions before you get the freedom to pursue something that you like and pays a decent buck. My first few jobs out of law school (graduated in 2009) either didn't pay well and were enjoyable (clerkship) or didn't pay well and were awful (working for egomaniacal solo). After that though, after working hard, making some connections, and keeping my eye out for positions I wanted, I was able to secure a place somewhere I enjoyed which didn't make me rich, but at least isn't making me worried I'll have to file for bankruptcy. Granted, there are certainly some I know who haven't had such luck even with perserverance, but I think it's more the exception than the norm.
The job market has changed no doubt, but I don't think his take - which is basically, don't go unless you think you'll succeed at a Top 20 law school - is accurate. Unless, of course, your only idea of a successful legal career is making $150k straight out of school at a white shoe big city law firm.
I hear what you're saying but can you really say that you would choose to give up any opportunity to play football (even if you're not going to succeed) to instead enroll in law school? Understanding, of course, that you can always re-apply and enroll the next year? There is no way in hell that I would pass up an opportunity to play a game that I love (I assume he loves playing?) to go to law school and I'm in probably one of the best legal jobs there are right now. To me, its a no brainer and all this "realistic" talk is shenanigans. People PAY to go to fantasy football camps. Sweat would get paid to do it. No brainer.
Oh, I hear you. What I wouldn't give to be able to play a real football game just one more time. But that's just me.
The kid has had multiple concussions, recently hit his head when he slipped in the shower and, though it was not a hard hit, started to feel the symptoms again. Law is nowhere to be starting out these days unless you are in a top 10-20 law school, but he is being smart not to risk further brain injury. Plus, he was likely not going to have much of an NFL career, if any; and Florida is a pretty good law school, likely the best in that state if he wants to practice down there.
Going to law school these days is an extreme gamble. A law degree used to be a license to print money. Not so much anymore. With the downed economy the last several years, kids graduating college have moved on to graduate programs (such as law school) to "wait out" the recession. This has resulted in a surplus of lawyers, most of whom graduate with substantial debt, and most of whom can't get a job.
I graduated back in 2008, and I still have friends who either have moved to a different (low-paying) profession or who are working for peanuts in law. A few of us managed to get good high-paying jobs, but only because we had weird specialties (e.g., I have an Electrical Engineering degree).
To the average LSA graduate, I definitely don't recommend law school unless you have a pretty solid plan for getting employed or are freaking amazing and can be in the top 10 (not percent) of your class.
To be fair, though, if the options for him appear to be (a) try to make an NFL roster as basically camp meat, (b) try to find a job with whatever degree he received from OSU, or (c) take a shot at law school, have a huge additional point on your resume in addition to being a former Buckeye player, I'd try c. Yeah, law school's a risk, but so is virtually every other profession right now. At least a law degree could be useful down the line.
I've been on the record as being pretty conservative when it comes to concussions. I will ignore the fact that Sweat is a Buckeye and applaud his decision to go to school instead of showing up and being "meat" in an NFL camp.
The sad truth is that most UFA's end up being live practice dummies who get cut and never see a penny of NFL money other than the camp stipend. Congrats to a UFA who knows his place on the food chain. Most UFA's think they are going to make it, when in reality, less than ten percent of the UFA's who show up in a camp end up on the final roster.
The "math" in the article is horrible. Around 40 of those 53 roster spots are pretty much determined before the players get to camp. That leaves 50 players competing for 13 spots. Those who were drafted usually have better "measurables" than UFA's, and that becomes a major consideration when assembling the final roster.
I don't care enough to dig quite that deep because I'm not really much of a "stat guy," but it might be interesting to know the average number of UFA's on an NFL roster.
This article seems to be trying to make its point using a purely economic perspective, but I think even then, it fails. It's a true longshot for this young man to make an NFL roster at all, much less make a football career that would be worth his while. I don't think this is a poor decision at all, especially in light of the sure job awaiting him at the end of law school. And what do you do for a year if you (very likely) don't make the cut (and can't start law school on time)? Does this financial loss factor in?
And in 2006, 2007, it supposedly made no economic sense at all to rent an apartment when you could buy a house and watch your equity do nothing but grow. So we should definitely make our decisions based on one factor only and ignore all others. I want to punch that writer in the face. For one thing, his grasp of probability is appalling.
By his lack of understanding of an NFL roster. It isn't "90 people show up, coaches choose names from a hat, and 53 people make the team." It's more like "90 people show up, 48 have a spot locked down, and the other 42 people fight like hell for 5 spots"
Beyond that, though, Law School does remain a pretty bad investment for most people. To continue your analogy, law school right now is like saying, "there's a glut of houses on the market, and foreclosures are rampant, but houses cost more than ever and closing costs and interest rates keep increasing like whoa. I should buy now."
Yeah....
There are about 90 players in an NFL training camp for 53 spots. If we pretend that all 90 are rookies and that all rookies have an equal shot at making the rookie minimum, that would still give Sweat about $230K of expected value ($229,667, assuming also that he makes $0 if he doesn’t make the team).
"If we completely change the facts of the game to fit my premise, you'll see how sound the premise is."
How he conveniently ignores the veterans in camp is beyond me.
He also assumes that if you make the team, you're guaranteed $390,000. Acts like if you make the team, you made it for the year. No, if you make the team coming out of training camp you get 1/17th of that for each week you're on the team. It's not like, "you're hired, you made it, here's your enormous check and permanent employment."
Where is that the case?
In his hypothetical?
It was a hypothetical
What an ignorant, whiney, jilted turd.
Reading Above the Law to hear solid legal arguments is like reading Drudge Report or MoveOn.org for unbiased political discussions. It's a bunch of snark under the veneer of legal reasoning.
It's honestly a pretty dumb article. Sweat looked at the landscape as a free agent rookie, didn't like what he saw, and wants to take a shot at going to law school. He's actually - gasp - thinking about his future beyond 27 or whenever he can no longer play football. And yeah, it sounds like nepotism will help him get a job, but who cares? You read all the time that 3/4 of NFL players are broke within a couple of years of retirement, and yet we chastise a guy for going into a field that could help him earn a nice living for the rest of his life. Honestly, I support Sweat for taking the real risk and trying to forge a career outside of sport instead of trying law school in a couple of years (when he will likely feel even more burned out and might not have the resources to give it a shot).
I wouldn't discount abovethelaw quite so easily. They've done a lot of very good work in exposing the false employment statistics that law schools report. They do a lot of gossipy biglaw BS, but they've done as much as site in publicizing the sleazy world of law school rankings.
ATL is the Huffington Post of the genre. They do some amusing and gossipy stuff, but they also bring some really important information to light.
Sweat has the odds stacked in his favor for law school. Florida is a decent program where he'll be able to make some connections in the south. His dad is a successful lawyer with his own firm with tons of connections in the east and north. And of course he started for two years at Ohio State.
The OSU connection alone would get him a job. He is guaranteed a job for life.
For me, its not about which is the more practical or mature long-term decision. This kid has the opportunity to live out a dream, even if just for one season. Why not do it and then attend law school next year? If anything, I bet it makes his application look better next year and maybe help him get into a better law school. My buddy did everything in his power to sign on with a minor league baseball team DURING law school because he knew it would be way better than practicing law. And this was pre-financial crisis when graduating law school was pretty much guaranteed to be lucrative.
It's possible that he wants to become a sports agent, which is one of the few really cool jobs that require a law degree but are impossible to get without connections. As a former OSU football player, Sweat probably has access to the types of connections needed to break into sports agency (a la Rob Pelinka).
The Above the Law guy is an absolute idiot... no wonder he wasn't a success as a lawyer. I like this quote: "I’d bet all the money in my pocket that Sweat has not been paying attention to the media coverage of the long-term professional and financial damage that can be done by going to law school." Yes, the long-term professional and financial damage that CAN result from what, furthering his education? You could say the same thing about going to undergrad, or Med school, or grad school... yeah you COULD screw up and not make anything of your life and be forced to tell others how shitty their decisions are for the rest of your life while not really adding anything to society *looks at Above the Law*.
I hope this guy never procreates, imagine...
"Dad, I got into (Med/Law/Grad) School!"
"Well son, I hope you understand how this could damage your future career prospects and ruin your life."
"Aw thanks Dad, I'm glad you've been able to do one thing well in life. You sure can pass on your butt-hurt to future generations with the best of 'em!"
So he signed a rookie deal, then decided not to go to camp. What are the chances that he accepts a law school offer and then decides to do something else?