OT: Still about 10,000 tickets available for Buckeye's home-opener against Oregon
To anyone who still thinks Michigan's decline in season ticket sales is due to ANYTHING other than external factors (the fact that we're in a global pandemic being a pretty big factor), please explain this.
September 7th, 2021 at 11:25 AM ^
Well we know no one in Ohio believes Covid is real.
/s
September 7th, 2021 at 11:27 AM ^
Ducks don't travel well?
September 7th, 2021 at 11:31 AM ^
Actually, I have long held that Michigan's fanbase has shown significant strength in resisting the trends that are afflicting the rest of the sport with regard to declining ticket sales. Even Alabama is pruning some of its seats to ensure full houses, and yet Michigan packed in 109,000 in Ann Arbor with a significant portion of the fanbase still touchy about the health safety of crowds and a team for which nobody has high expectations.
However, Michigan is not immune to decline. I have speculated that Michigan will see attendances below 100,000 this year. Given that Western drew 109k, I may be proven wrong at least by reported attendance (the loophole that allowed the "streak" to be maintained in 2014), but we'll see what happens.
Some of this is an enthusiasm problem, but some of it is the reality of how fan tastes have changed and how the tolerance of the older fanbase that has the money to afford tickets to attend a game in person (or, more specifically, to attend six or seven games a year in person) is declining. It seems trite to say that a lot of people would just rather stay at home and watch on their big screen tv, but... I think a lot of people would rather stay home and watch on their big screen tv.
It is really something that Ohio State can't sell all of its tickets to a home opener of a title contending team that opens with a marquee game against Oregon, though.
September 7th, 2021 at 11:52 AM ^
Ignoring COVID (which absolutely is having an effect):
- Increased ticket prices
- Younger people having less money than any point in the last 50 or so years
- Longer commercial breaks leading to terrible in-stadium experience
- Perhaps waning interest in football as as sport due in part to CTE issues
All of these things are contributing to a nationwide decrease in demand for tickets, regardless of how successful the team in question is. CFB (and football in general) will have some real soul-searching to do in the coming years to remain relevant in the long term.
September 7th, 2021 at 12:11 PM ^
Football still draws huge ratings(something your analysis left out). I be am trying to figure why you think football’s relevance is in doubt when it blows away every other sport in terms of ratings and overall popularity.
September 7th, 2021 at 12:44 PM ^
This is a discussion of in-person attendance, not tv ratings...
September 7th, 2021 at 1:37 PM ^
SalvatoreQuattro only comes here to argue. Doesn't matter how stupid the argument is.
That cat loves yelling at clouds
September 7th, 2021 at 3:34 PM ^
But it does directly address the final point about possible waning interest in college football. TV ratings are as high as ever which suggests that the public's interest in college football is not waning. It's really a question of why in-person attendance is dropping and it doesn't seem to be about interest. Also, the "waning interest in football" angle is, by my read of things, more about youth participation than about spectating the college or pro games.
Rather, I think the other factors - cost (although relevant to all age brackets, particularly as people have families and competing interests), in-game experience, and COVID (obviously) are the most significant factors.
September 7th, 2021 at 12:54 PM ^
I am not arguing that TV audiences remain large (and bigger than every other US sport). However, youth football participation is dwindling. The obvious effect will be decreased talent pool to choose from for the higher levels of the sport, which will perhaps lead to decreased interest from fans. The long term effects are speculative at this point, but it is not far-fetched to say that without some changes, football has already peaked and is on the down swing.
September 7th, 2021 at 2:41 PM ^
For what it’s worth, ratings for the playoff were considerably lower last season than in previous seasons (https://www.sportsmediawatch.com/college-football-playoff-ratings-bcs/).
I don’t think college football is close to irrelevant, but that doesn’t mean it isn’t trending downwards.
September 7th, 2021 at 3:38 PM ^
Last year was such a debacle, though. I'd want to see another year's worth of declining ratings before I come to any judgement on that.
It's also possible that college football fans are tiring of the playoffs. I mean, Alabama, Clemson and Ohio State again? I mostly followed the title game on the ESPN scoreboard just to make sure Ohio State was still losing.
September 7th, 2021 at 1:08 PM ^
You left out huge TV's with crystal clear picture, the ability to pause, rewind, watch multiple games, and epic sound systems. This can make the availability of your own private toilet and kitchen much, much more appealing than say 20 years ago.
For me personally, the stadium experience getting somewhat worse wouldn't be enough to stay home if I lived in SE Michigan. But the trajectory of fans as a whole away from the stadium makes some sense.
September 7th, 2021 at 3:37 PM ^
I live in the Chicago area and while I would still attend a Michigan-NW game in person, the in-game experience was pretty miserable the last time I went. I took my nephew and he hated being there - and this is a kid who loves watching football on TV. The TV timeouts were too frequent and too long, and they broke up any flow of the game. Yet, the TO's were still not long enough to wait in line for the bathroom or concessions and get back to our seats in time to watch the game start again. Nothing sucks worse than rushing back to your seat from the bathroom and hearing fans roar, having no idea what the heck you just missed.
September 7th, 2021 at 5:07 PM ^
Northwestern’s stadium has to be the worst in the B1G. Restrooms and concessions are the pits.
it’s so bad their big replay screen Maxtron in the stadium is actually a Mini-tron.
September 7th, 2021 at 7:18 PM ^
Great points! If we make the commercials more frequent and double to triple the length of said breaks, then fans will have more time to purchase concessions, instead of wasting their time not spending extra money.
September 7th, 2021 at 1:43 PM ^
I agree with this entire list and after going to the WMU game don't forget; the seats are very uncomfortable, it's always too hot or too cold in the stadium, you can't get any food or drinks once you are in the stadium without having to wait for 45mins and most of all 4K TV makes it alot easier to watch at home.
Going to one game every 2 or 3 years is more than enough for me...Go BLue!
September 7th, 2021 at 2:40 PM ^
In addition to the 45 minute wait, aren't the concessions insanely overpriced? I guess that's the same situation at every stadium but it doesn't make it right.
September 7th, 2021 at 10:21 PM ^
You are spot on regarding the pricing. I make sure I either tailgate or eat outside the stadium as concessions are ludicrously priced. They would make more PROFIT if they reduced prices by say 1/3 as more people would purchase concessions.
September 7th, 2021 at 3:56 PM ^
If the concession service at the stadium doesn't improve significantly from what it was for the WMU game, more people will bail. They didn't have nearly enough people working and lines were ridiculously long. I missed most of the pregame stuff including the sky jumpers even though I got there plenty early.
September 7th, 2021 at 4:30 PM ^
I was in the chairback section 22 and there were plenty of open seats. In fact there were folks in our seats so we just sat in other open seats. As far as concessions I don't think the issue was staffing as much as I found the people behind the counter to be completely inept at operating the registers. Caused me to miss the paratroopers as well so I could buy the exquisite bottled water.
September 7th, 2021 at 2:25 PM ^
It's 100% this for me. I gave up my season tickets 4 years ago. Three kids under 10 with different activities and other familial commitments plus being really busy at work. Much easier to carve out a few hours to watch from home than it is to give up basically give up an entire Saturday. The cost was outrageous enough for 2 tickets. If we wanted to make it a family affair, it would have even been worse. Just can't justify the cost and investment of time at this point in my life.
September 7th, 2021 at 11:59 AM ^
MSU in their peak years under D'Antoni still struggled to sell out home games.
September 7th, 2021 at 10:24 PM ^
Yes....
September 7th, 2021 at 12:44 PM ^
There was not 109,000+ in the stands for the WMU game. Maybe 90,000 or so, but I saw lots of empty seats everywhere when I spent a few minutes with my binoculars scanning thru the crowd at various times in the 2nd quarter. By then the stream of folks flowing in had long ended.
We had plenty of empty seats not only in our section but also everywhere I looked other than the nearly full student section (which looked fuller in the first half than anywhere else I looked.)
I was especially struck by how empty the chair back seats were on the west sidelines---25-30% full, max. Plenty of empty seats in the outdoor club sections on the east sideline too, and the usual amount of empty space in the suites.
Watching parts of the replay on ESPN-U right now but they rarely show any angles that make it easy to see the empty seats that were definitely there.
September 7th, 2021 at 1:23 PM ^
rob, did you leave your seat during the second quarter? I walked around the whole concourse (ostensibly doing my job) about when Bell got injured and saw the longest lines at concessions that i’ve seen in my tenure. A few minutes after kickoff it looked like a normal crowd to me. Just as many complaints in my section of “someone’s in my seat!”, when people’s big butts just have to find the 18” of aluminum they paid for.
The empty chair backs below the press box( I call them “Regent’s Seats”) was quite noticeable I’ll grant you.
September 7th, 2021 at 1:45 PM ^
I was there, I took pictures, and it was packed. Lots of folks left at half time but I was surprised it was that full.
September 7th, 2021 at 2:10 PM ^
No, I stayed in my seats the entire 1st half, then hit the restroom late in the 3rd quarter during a timeout. Stopped at a concession for a few bottled waters coming back to my seats and missed a Michigan possession and TD while waiting in line; understandably, they're very short staffed.
Didn't see the usual high school organizations that normally help with staffing in exchange for fund-raising $$$, they usually take care of some of the concession work at the north end zone concourse.
September 7th, 2021 at 2:03 PM ^
My anecdote is better than yours.
There is no way that that the stadium was 20% empty and your keen eye is the only one that noticed. It was as busy as any other sold out game I have been to.
All the seats up in our corner section were filled. We couldn't find one open when looking (late 1Q). It took the students a while to fill in (as usual), but they came as well. Of course, there were constantly people getting up and sitting down. But, we had to make room for people to walk through pretty often (one sign of a full stadium).
The concessions were packed. The lines were crazy and I assume there were staffing shortages or something.
Anyway, there is no way to hide 30,000 seats from plain view. We would have all seen it.
September 7th, 2021 at 2:29 PM ^
I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree then. But~17000 empty seats rather than the 30,000 you mentioned.
Like I just posted above, concession lines were packed, but it was definitely due to staffing problems, like others have mentioned.
We're normally packed in like sardines and had empty seats all day in our surrounding area (we're in the mid-70's rows); there was plenty of breeze to disperse any gasiness I may or may not have had on Saturday.
But honestly, from my vantage point I saw blocks of empty seats throughout the upper reaches everywhere I looked thru my binoculars and more scattered but obvious empty seats in sections of the lower bowl (approximately row 70 and lower where the original seating starts below the inner concourse).
I again want to applaud the students though: the lower student section was packed as always and even the upper rows there were surprisingly full. And you can always tell where the students are seated by the obvious predominance of maize apparel.
September 7th, 2021 at 10:29 PM ^
Agree with Rob as there were definitely not 109k in attendance. 2 items made that clear to me even before I got to the stadium. 1) traffic heading towrds the stadium, either in the highway or in the city was very low, and 2) I usually park in the Thompson St. lot and am always on level 4 or 5, this time I found parking on 2!!!
Furthermore, many empty seats around me and I had an easy time leaving the Thompson St. lot. Humans in attendance was down.
September 7th, 2021 at 4:28 PM ^
No Rob f is absolutely correct. The number of scanned tickets for each home game is always much less than the announced supposedly "paid attendance". It's been like this for some years and has only gradually become like this such that most people don't really notice it anymore. We hardly ever see the packed conditions in the rows around us like some of the big games years ago. If you visually look around the stadium, of course it will look (like on Saturday) that it's very full, because people collectively will fill up whatever space they have available to them. But I guarantee you there are lots of empty seats in the stadium. The two people next to us rarely go to the games and only sometimes sell their seat. On Saturday, the seats were empty.
Don't believe me or rob f? Read the WSJ article from August 2018 titled "College Football's Growing Problem - Empty Seats" that shows the stark difference between # of actual scanned tickets for each home game and reported attendance. (I'd link to it, but it's paywalled) Michigan is not much different than any of the other big schools. The numbers are shocking for disbelievers. Many top programs like Michigan have 20% or more FEWER people actually in the seats vs. reported attendance.
This is why I really wish they'd stop making the false claim every game over the PA of the number of game attendees when the actual number is far lower.
September 7th, 2021 at 6:25 PM ^
Sure. None of us have any idea if the normal numbers are right.
All we can say is whether it was like past games. In that respect it was no different.
So if all the past games that felt that full were 90,000 this one was too. If all the past games were 109,000 this one was too.
September 7th, 2021 at 7:20 PM ^
After reading what 'True Blue Grit' posted about the regular inaccuracies of the announced attendance, I wish to downgrade my estimate to 50,000.
/s
September 7th, 2021 at 9:27 PM ^
For a little added context, I read on reddit that OSU did not make the Oregon game available for purchase outside of a full season ticket package and was not included in their 3 game packs like Washington and OSU were for us.
In addition, OSU has a $750 per seat required donation for all season ticket holders, which is 10x the cost of my endzone seats. This results in more of those folks not buying tickets the years that Michigan is away.
Just looked at stubhub and get in price after fees is about $170 right now for terrible corner seats in an upper deck. I think the demand is there but their athletic department shot themselves in the foot which is why these are now being sold as individual tickets.
September 7th, 2021 at 11:34 AM ^
This is happening all over college football. There may be a bump up as fans come back after a year off, but between ticket prices, interminable TV timeouts, relatively inexpensive HD TV's and for many teams not so great results, it's a bit hard to justify.
I know in my household, after paying close to $1,200 for four OSU tickets in 2019 (with the seat "license"), losing by a ton of points and freezing our butts off, we all felt the line in the sand had been finally crossed.
September 7th, 2021 at 2:03 PM ^
I'm sure they'd have to alter their TV contracts, but I wonder if they could use the model the NFL once used where there was a local TV blackout if a game did not sell out. This policy afflicted Lions fans for years because when they were playing in the Silverdome it was the biggest stadium in the NFL, like 80,000 seats.
September 7th, 2021 at 11:35 AM ^
I would guess away team fan travel is WAY down, and a lot of people are probably avoiding bringing their young kids to games.
September 7th, 2021 at 1:03 PM ^
Good point, Jamie. Thinking back to Saturday, I saw very few youngsters there.
And one of my ticket group said his daughter and her hubby aren't coming up from Georgia for any games this fall, they're vaxxed but have a 7 yr old daughter to protect. They've otherwise traveled to Michigan games once or twice yearly for years, even bringing their daughter along for several games ever since she was about a two-year old.
September 7th, 2021 at 2:16 PM ^
You see what you want to see.
We brought our two young kids. That helped us notice all the other young kids. Parents have a way of assessing the kid situation in public.
I wouldn't say it was more or less than any other season opener. I will say it is always more kids for non-conf games than big games like OSU. I'm sure you won't see many kids for the night game this week, but that is true of all night games.
September 7th, 2021 at 6:26 PM ^
No, I see what I see. My eyesight is fine.
My hearing, on the other hand...
I didn't say that there wasn't any kids at all there Saturday. But I do sit right along the railing of my section's entrance portal and our aisle ends two rows directly in front of me, so I have the advantage of a line of sight that few others are afforded.
And let me tell you one more thing, it's been mighty fine over the years watching the view, discreetly thru my sunglasses ?????most of the time, as the eye candy passes by just down below that same rail. There's definitely a silver lining to being seated there for hot weather games!
September 7th, 2021 at 11:37 AM ^
I thought this was Harbaugh's fault?
September 7th, 2021 at 11:40 AM ^
A couple of months ago fans didn't know what the season and attendance were even going to look like, let alone the restrictions on those that attend. This is not a normal year, people aren't going to shell out $4k for season tickets to maybe attend games then have to wait for their money back if they cut attendance.
Every school is dealing with it. Not to mention the lack of traveling fans from opponents as many said above (especially coming from the west coast for a 9 am football game on a Saturday).
September 7th, 2021 at 1:39 PM ^
I've heard a few of my friends say they weren't going to buy tickets before games because of the possibility of attendance being cut
September 7th, 2021 at 1:44 PM ^
That's where I was with concerts leading up to summer concert season, but once they started happening I went all in. Now I fully expect to be waiting on some refunds for the October/November shows I have tickets for. I just wanted to get tickets in case of sell-outs.
Now that I think about it, I'd rather attend concerts over sporting events if it's even money. And I'm a sports fanatic.
You can stop reading now...I'm rambling.
September 7th, 2021 at 11:46 AM ^
Fire Ryan Day!
September 7th, 2021 at 10:34 PM ^
Get it right....Fire Bakich!!!
September 7th, 2021 at 11:46 AM ^
That is sort of crazy, but I assume (like UM's season opener) that there will be a decent number of walk-up purchases and it'll be full.
September 7th, 2021 at 11:49 AM ^
OSU may have a winning product, but absolutely no athletic program out there is immune to basic economics. You can't keep raising ticket prices on a yearly basis and not expect eventual decrease in demand, even if you're winning an average of 12-13 games a year. Money is money. It will eventually get to a point where even the most rabid fan has to sit there and say "I can't justify paying for this." Especially fans coming in from out of town who are also buying a $300-$400 plane ticket, spending several hundred dollars on a hotel room for the weekend, transportation to/from the airport, spending money to eat out every night they're in town, bar money, etc.
It all adds up, and you're oftentimes spending upwards of $1,000 just for one person for one game. If its a big-time game you're probably paying even more than that. At some point, the prospect of staying home and watching the game on your big screen just seems like a better, more responsible option. Especially as more channels convert to 4k compatibility.
September 7th, 2021 at 12:06 PM ^
This is spot on. Hell I live 15 minutes from the stadium, and am not willing to spend $320 plus fees for a noon game for two people to go to the game. Even if two of us go, we are $500 in for two tickets, and have to get up at the crack of down to get down there and fully make the experience worth it.
I'm at the point where I'd rather party Friday night, sleep in, drink my coffee while watching Saved by the Bell or something with my kids, then get ready for the game 15 minutes before kickoff.
September 7th, 2021 at 2:04 PM ^
3 hrs of Saved By The Bell>3 hrs of College Game Day, except the Tori episodes of course.