OT Possible NCAA rule reinstatement
February 14th, 2015 at 1:47 PM ^
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February 14th, 2015 at 6:55 PM ^
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February 14th, 2015 at 12:53 PM ^
Under those rules, here would be our entire healthy and eligible line-up right now:
Spike, Dakich, Lonergan, Irvin, Donnal, Bielfeldt.
That would require a lot of moxie (and fitness)!
February 14th, 2015 at 12:54 PM ^
I imagine the last few years wouldve been handled a bit differently as well.
February 14th, 2015 at 1:00 PM ^
Yeah, except that without playing as a true freshman, Burke isn't the player of the year as a sophmore, Stauskas isn't the B1G player of the year last year, McGary doesn't have the tournament showcase that enabled him to be a 1st rounder, etc.
So while our 7 freshmen wouldn't be able to play this year, there is a good chance that we don't have 7 scholarships available for freshmen either.
February 14th, 2015 at 12:55 PM ^
I don't see it having any chance of passing, honestly. There is still a lot of money to be made in NCAA basketball, and making a move like this when pro basketball is growing overseas is only going to push more top kids to go pro (or even cause the NBA to rethink their 1 year rule and start taking kids early. Neither the NCAA or the NBA is going to be happy watching the best 18 year olds leave the continent in growing numbers.
February 14th, 2015 at 1:02 PM ^
I had though that at least some vague support was shown by NBA management at some point for making athletes complete at least two years at their instution, or alternatively, one year at school and then a year in Europe, the D-League or some other non-NBA league. The reason fronted by Silver, as I recall, is that there is growing concern over less-than-complete products constantly being sent to the league. The problem is that it would require structural changes to the NBA's CBA, if I remember correctly.
February 14th, 2015 at 2:16 PM ^
I don't think the NBA sees the NCAA as competition - to the contrary in fact, since it both preps future NBA players and gets American sports fans tuned in to who these kids are before they hit NBA courts. Now the international leagues are something different, as 1. Most American fans don't follow them, so if a guy plays in Italy or China or wherever before coming to the NBA, we don't know as much about him, and 2. In theory, if enough top talent goes overseas at 18 and 19, more of them may begin to stick there instead of joining the NBA.
It sounds laughable in the short term, but if you look at the way the sport has evolved globally then I don't think it's something you can dismiss long term. The relative strength of international soccer leagues can change, after all. There's no reason to dismiss the possibility that, if basketball is also going to be a world sport, there will come a time where the NBA has competition. Given that possibility, it's not really in the league's long-term interest to keep the young stars out, even if their game could benefit from seasoning between high school and the NBA.
February 14th, 2015 at 12:59 PM ^
I smell a law suit.
February 14th, 2015 at 1:20 PM ^
February 14th, 2015 at 4:39 PM ^
What about when a group of buisness owners get together to limit wages and to keep otherwise qualified persons from getting a job with one of the other buisness owners, what do you call that?
February 14th, 2015 at 6:41 PM ^
February 14th, 2015 at 1:02 PM ^
Big 12 commissioner Bob Bowlsby [told CBS] there is “almost a uniform acknowledgment that there’s kids in college that don’t have any interest in an education and don’t have the proper education to take advantage of an education.” Bowlsby said freshman ineligibility would have a “profoundly positive effect” on football and men’s basketball by easing the transition from high school without the distractions of competition.
Uhh what? Because the one thing that keeps freshmen athletes from being good students is running around for 3 hours on a Saturday instead of sitting on the bench for 3 hours. How does that make sense? Freshmen who were ineligible would still practice nonstop, still be on the team, still socialize with football players, still have access to an academic support staff that does all of their work for them, and still be at schools that hey often have no business being at adacemically. So what does this solve?
February 14th, 2015 at 1:11 PM ^
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February 14th, 2015 at 1:13 PM ^
February 14th, 2015 at 1:31 PM ^
Bowlsby has also recently complained about the rule that allows graduated kids to transfer for their fifth year without having to sit out a year. So we know where he is coming from.
February 14th, 2015 at 1:09 PM ^
Bowlsby screwed up the Big12 and now is trying to screw up the entire NCAA. There is no way the SEC, Big10, and Pac12 go for this and they are the conferences with the power.
February 14th, 2015 at 1:14 PM ^
February 14th, 2015 at 4:37 PM ^
It forces their hand. Let kids leave for europe or make the minimum age 20 and then the NCAA gets two years from players which is what they want.
February 14th, 2015 at 1:23 PM ^
February 14th, 2015 at 1:26 PM ^
February 14th, 2015 at 1:28 PM ^
I wouldn't mind this, only for that reason. I just don't believe the limit 19 year-old floor to play in the NBA (however it is codified) is legal. No way. Just waiting to be challenged.
And now, if you tell these 18 year old kids they can't play in college either, and if they want to continue to develop their basketball skills, they have to what -- go to Europe? Surely someone will say enough is enough and sue the NBA.
But I don't think this has a snowball's chance of actually happening.
February 14th, 2015 at 2:21 PM ^
February 14th, 2015 at 2:39 PM ^
Eh, it's antitrust I think. I know the NFL has won before, mostly because of their political influence (IMHO). Basically, the age limit is arbitrary. In the Clarett case, for example, the argument was that the age limit was there to protect players. I don't think the current NBA rule has been challenged. They've lost in court before, when there used to be a four-year limit.
And if I may opine, it's just not in the spirit of this entire country to tell a legal adult he's not allowed to make millions of dollars in a league where, certainly if he's good enough, some teams are willing to pay him. That sort of rule can just go to hell.
February 14th, 2015 at 4:38 PM ^
Not anti trust
February 14th, 2015 at 5:31 PM ^
We tell legal adults they can't do all sorts of shit that older people can do. Drink. Get cheap car insurance.
I think the rule is fine. I would argue that the harm done to the numerous unready players who declared anyway greatly outweighs the 12-month waiting period for making loads of money. I don't consider it a horrible hardship for someone to be forced to wait a year. It's a protection against exploitation of people who in many cases aren't legal adults.
February 14th, 2015 at 3:10 PM ^
They are discriminating based on age. That's how.
February 14th, 2015 at 3:33 PM ^
That is legally allowable as long as it's a negotiated thing between the union/professional organization and the employer.
February 14th, 2015 at 4:50 PM ^
The players agree because it keeps a few vets on the end of the bench. The vets get a vote the future people have no vote and are not represented. I could see this as being a problem in right to work states. I am not sure this is negotiable. A union could negotiate Lunch breaks but not whether or not you get one. Law says unpaid half hour, the union couldn't say we won't take a lunch.
February 14th, 2015 at 2:29 PM ^
It's been waiting for almost ten years to be challenged. Hasn't yet. The NFL, even longer. Lots of jobs have age limits to them, both upper and lower. The military. Air traffic controllers. If there were a legal case to be made against age limits in sports leagues, it would've been made by now.
February 14th, 2015 at 2:41 PM ^
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haywood_v._National_Basketball_Ass%27n
This was a Supreme Court case, in 1971. The NBA lost.
February 14th, 2015 at 5:24 PM ^
Then why not again? If it was that cut and dried then there would've been a lawsuit immediately following the announcement of the rule. To answer my own question: Collective bargaining. The age limit of 19 was collectively bargained, the previous one was not, and a collectively bargained agreement can go against all sorts of otherwise established law.
This rule is the result of a collective bargaining process and is therefore perfectly legal.
February 14th, 2015 at 8:09 PM ^
This new rule yes, has the blessing of the union, which wants to protect its current players. And this is the union the kids will end up joining should they make it. I think this is a tricky situation and explains the reason why it hasn't been challenged -- not the legal merit.
Right now, it's just not worth challenging. It's not a terrible deal for the kids to play a year in the NCAA and build name recognition while trying out for NBA teams and receiving coaching and playing time. If that equation changes, I think we will see it challenged, and I think it will lose. You can't, for example, collectively bargain away the right of black players to play in your league. There are limits. The exclusion has to be justified.
February 15th, 2015 at 10:51 AM ^
There are certain things you can't collectively bargain, yes, but keep in mind also, Maurice Clarett was denied by the courts in his attempt to overturn the NFL's rule, which is much more onerous than the NBA's.
February 14th, 2015 at 4:52 PM ^
The goverment gets a pass on this. A regular employer could not set an upper age limit.
February 14th, 2015 at 1:42 PM ^
was a couple years following the Marshall University tragedy. It makes sense to allow a year for student athletes to acclimate to college without the pressures of performing in games. But then it's more about winning games now than about providing a needed transition period for some college kids. That's why it won't happen.
February 14th, 2015 at 2:22 PM ^
So if the NCAA does this, the cream of the crop are not going to college. They will just go overseas for a year and then jump to the league. Guys who are one and done now barely go to school after the season is done. Why would a player who really doesnt want to be in school but is forced to go because of the NBA age restriction rule so sign up to say in school at 2 years?
February 14th, 2015 at 2:37 PM ^
February 14th, 2015 at 3:35 PM ^
that the NBA is unconcerned with the quality of NCAA games.
February 14th, 2015 at 2:50 PM ^
HOW ABOUT THE NSD RULE WHERE THEY CAN OPT OUT.
February 14th, 2015 at 3:07 PM ^
February 14th, 2015 at 3:10 PM ^
you're going to carry more scholarships. That means more money to students. That means it ain't happening.
February 14th, 2015 at 3:15 PM ^
February 14th, 2015 at 4:03 PM ^
February 14th, 2015 at 3:32 PM ^
Can someone explain to me what the hell is wrong with going pro straight out of high school?
You either go pro or go to college for 3 years. There problem solved.
February 14th, 2015 at 4:22 PM ^
February 14th, 2015 at 4:53 PM ^
I would be eager to see an analysis on it. Kobe KG and Perkins are 3 others that made the leap straight from high school and thrived. I wonder how many flunk out.
February 14th, 2015 at 5:58 PM ^
Korleone Young. Jonathon Bender. Leon Smith. Kwame Brown. DeSagana Diop. Ousmane Cisse. Ndudi Ebi. James Lang. Robert Swift. Sebastian Telfair.
By the way, I have no way of knowing how many high school players declared for the draft and never heard their names called. It could be zero - but nobody of any intelligence would make that bet.
A few names of guys who thoroughly failed to live up to the promise. I left off some other names like Darius Miles and Amir Johnson, who've done alright but - surprise surprise - didn't really do anything in the league until several years had passed. Which would probably have been better spent in college.
A few of those are really sad stories:
Smith was raised in a foster home, called Lydia Children's Home, as a ward of the state of Illinois due to neglect from his parents when he was five years old.
Smith was selected out of Chicago's Martin Luther King High School by the San Antonio Spurs in the first round (29th overall) of the 1999 NBA Draft and was immediately traded to the Dallas Mavericks in exchange for the draft rights to Gordan Giriček and a second-round pick in the 2000 NBA Draft. However, in subsequent months he suffered numerous psychological problems, and was released in February 2000 without ever playing a game for the Mavericks.[2] A month previous, Smith was released from a psychiatric ward to where he was committed for several weeks, after an incident in which he threw a rock through a car window and swallowed approximately 250 aspirin tablets.
I'd never argue that college would've definitely helped this guy's career come to a better end than that. But you'd have to be a complete moron to argue that it wouldn't have at least given him a better chance. If this guy ever had one positive influence in his ear I'd be surprised. Give him a college coach for a year, and who knows. Certainly, tossing this guy to the wolves at age 18 was a stupid thing to do.
There are two possible injustices in the age limit debate. One is that a deserving player has to wait a year to get filthy rich. The other is that a completely unprepared player with no positive influences in his life gets thrown into a grown-up world without one shred of warning or preparation and becomes a complete waste of talent. The fact that some people think the former is worse than the latter is incomprehensible.
If the age-limit rule has a chance to prevent stories like Leon Smith or Robert Swift, then it's abso-fucking-lutely the right thing to do.
February 14th, 2015 at 6:14 PM ^
I remember Korleone Young, trying to remember others. The majority, I would guess vast majority, do not make it. The rule protects them from themselves. I understand a few benefit greatly.
But other than injury how are they really hurt? Plus they can pull a Brandon Jennings anytime they want.
The NBA benefits, College basketball benefits (except UK and a few others) and most 18 and 19 year olds benefit.
February 15th, 2015 at 1:13 PM ^
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