OT: Ole Miss Player Sues Lane Kiffin and School over dismissal from team during mental health crisis
September 14th, 2023 at 10:42 PM ^
Impossible to litigate this on the internet. Shut the thread down.
September 15th, 2023 at 4:19 PM ^
Impossible to litigate in real life. I mean seriously gender and racial discrimination? How could he possibly ever prove that. And the barrier to reach emotional distress especially in Mississippi is extremely high. I empathize with his issues but recording your coach in secret and suing the school you say you love for 30 million screams money grab.
September 14th, 2023 at 10:45 PM ^
If true, you would have to think that would be the end for Kiffin. Right?
September 14th, 2023 at 10:48 PM ^
Hard to say. Naturally because its a lawsuit its one side of a story, but the audio is very bad you would think.
September 14th, 2023 at 11:30 PM ^
Not at all. Kiffin was a little harsh but he was right. If the kid wanted a mental break, fine. But you can’t just ignore repeated attempts of your boss calling you. Kiffin wanted to see how he was doin and the kid acted like he didn’t care and that he could do whatever he wanted. Kiffin has two jobs to do which are football and making sure your kids are ok. And if the kids don’t answer requests how in the world would you expect him to react to that? The kid was being a brat especially for recording him. Almost like he set him up.
September 14th, 2023 at 11:49 PM ^
I highly doubt Ole Miss will see it that way. Regardless of the circumstances surrounding the meeting, if another University employee spoke to a student like that they would face some consequences.
September 15th, 2023 at 8:48 AM ^
Hate to break it to you but football coaches (as well as other sports) get away with cussing out student-athletes all of the time, certainly in ways other university employees would not be able to.
September 15th, 2023 at 11:25 AM ^
BREAKING NEWS: Every football and basketball coach just got fired because they spoke to their players harshly.
More at 11.
September 16th, 2023 at 4:02 PM ^
speaking harshly about football play is one thing, speaking harshly about mental stress is another.
September 14th, 2023 at 10:45 PM ^
Also Kiffin referring to it as a job is not great for the NCAA for NLRB purposes.
September 15th, 2023 at 12:19 AM ^
They're not employees. They're not employees. They're not employees.
I'M YOUR FUCKING BOSS!
September 15th, 2023 at 2:16 AM ^
The meaning of "your job" is clear enough in context.
September 14th, 2023 at 10:48 PM ^
So this player literally avoids his head coach (repeated requests to sit down and talk) for a month, then when he does met with Kiffin he records him.
I get it -- he's still 20-years-old or so, he's not a full adult. But I also get why Kiffin would be pissed and said what he said in the recording.
Overall, I'm more on Kiffin's side reading this. Also, for the record, the player still has a scholarship: on pace to graduate in a few months.
September 14th, 2023 at 11:18 PM ^
I guess I am more interested in the Kiffin audio than the actual legal dispute. I think the sports interest is more "how does Ole Miss respond to this audio" as opposed to "is this player right to be suing the school"
One can see why Kiffin might be pissed. But I also think that if another university employee in charge of a department was caught talking to a student like that, there would be some consequences
September 14th, 2023 at 11:31 PM ^
If another university employee did something like that, they'd be fired. Kiffin will get 10 hours of sensitivity training, or something like that, which his grad assistant will dutifully fulfill.
September 14th, 2023 at 11:32 PM ^
The football lockerroom and maybe but probably the coaches' office(s), is shall we say, a completely different animal and environment than the O-chem lab and it's respective professor's office(s). Real world, it is.
Now.
I haven't read nor listened to anything yet. I'm ignorant to details and maybe an ass because of it. I'll read the details here when I can, soon.
September 14th, 2023 at 11:36 PM ^
Agreed that in reality the football locker room is often a different place. But the university of mississippi is now the defendant in a lawsuit and there is a recording of lane kiffin vulgarly berating a player who is claiming to be struggling with mental health. The normal contours of "its football" are pushed aside there when university counsel now has to deal with this- so I expect their reaction is not going to be "well its just football." Most of the vulgar things said in a football locker room arent recorded and arent in response to a mental health claim.
September 14th, 2023 at 11:42 PM ^
But as far as we know he was denied any services and was given time off. We also don’t know what previous discussions they had were like. That he recorded it makes it look like a setup.
Nothing about this screams awarding someone tens of millions of dollars.
September 14th, 2023 at 11:46 PM ^
I mean that Ole Miss might have to discipline Kiffin in some way. Another University employee speaking to a student like that would lead to consequences. I'm more interested in that than the lawsuit (which I think might struggle)
September 14th, 2023 at 11:53 PM ^
I don't think you're wrong. Ole Miss will respond and Kiffin is in for some consequences.
At the risk of getting an "OK Boomer!" reply, this quasi-reminds me of my Detroit summer job back in my undergrad years. Blue-collar tough physical job in the hot sun, but a very good hourly wage and ample OT, good opportunity to make some bank.
My boss (Paul) was a rough-and-tumble 35-ish year old man. But worked his butt off and had a kind side. My first summer, after a few weeks, I started playing games, goofing around, avoiding him, hiding when the real tough work had to be done, et cetera.
Until Paul pulled me aside: "I see what the f--- you are doing. F----- quit it, stop being a p----!!! This is the real f----- world, not that cushy college you're at come fall, man up and do the work! Always! You have a chance to make a lot of $$$ here for a 19-year-old kid, stop f----- around and let's go!"
Was I rattled? Angry? Ready to go to his boss? Yep!!! But I slowly came to realize that Paul did like and respect me, he was simply pissed in the moment and that was his communication style. A football HC being like that doesn't surprise me. Rollins is still on scholarship --- I get the sense the coaches still like and respect him in a way, even today.
And RIP Paul (died this summer, cancer too early). See ya eventually, I'm better for knowing you.
September 15th, 2023 at 12:52 AM ^
Fair anecdote. Some of our world's operate in a tough love fashion.
I'm the first to agree than the changes that have taken place in society and in work environment have been greatly needed and still aren't enough. But...SOME places are still going to operate in yesteryear for the time being. Mental health matters in that environment, certainly. But F and P bombs from the boss, especially about being ignored, are still going to occur and some mental fortitude through some tough times will be needed to prevail.
September 15th, 2023 at 2:14 AM ^
Worlds different from someone struggling with a mental health crisis (if that's truly the case) vs being a spoilt brat
September 15th, 2023 at 4:06 PM ^
I was being a brat --- but one can argue Rollins was giving off "brat vibes" too.
I don't dismiss mental health - I've battled mild anxiety for 30+ years. It's usually not a problem but never not lurking in the background.
But - at least for my experience - it's actually a fairly gray area between "I would benefit from someone to talk to and/or professional help" and "I would benefit from someone simply kicking me in the ass and telling me to buck up."
September 15th, 2023 at 12:24 PM ^
More than anything, this speaks to the ongoing stigma and misunderstanding of mental health issues in this country, especially in a sports context.
Although it's not entirely clear, it does seem like Rollins "suffered in silence" for almost a year before meeting with the DL coach in Nov. It doesn't indicate that he ever stated he needed help for mental health issues until his mom called the school in February.
IT seems at that point, Kiffin tried to meet with him repeatedly, but Rollins refused.
All around, this was one big fat failure in addressing potential mental health issues. Rollins clearly didn't feel like he could approach the staff and the staff clearly doesn't know how to react to things like this.
September 14th, 2023 at 10:48 PM ^
The players will begin unionizing soon - as they should.
September 14th, 2023 at 11:01 PM ^
To add a link, click the icon that looks like a link in a chain, at the top of the Comment box.
September 14th, 2023 at 11:10 PM ^
Yes, I apologize. Realized I forgot this when I shared.
September 14th, 2023 at 11:07 PM ^
Where is the NCAA?
September 14th, 2023 at 11:19 PM ^
Picture this. A SMU like list of infractions as far as the eye can see. Result: fines and probation.
-Tennessee
Now picture this. Cheeseburgers and zoom calls. Results? Rejecting a 1/3 of a season suspension for the coach.
-UM
Oh and did I mention probation for stretching?
God I hope Michigan Realist is lurking and reads this. Its gonna chap his SEC loving ass somethin' bad.
September 14th, 2023 at 11:34 PM ^
With their heads in the sand only to pop up for hamburgers
September 14th, 2023 at 11:39 PM ^
He claims racial and sex discrimination. It’s interesting to see how his lawyer makes that argument.
Audio sounds bad, but what would the possible violation be?
Kid better hope he wins something because no program is going to touch him after furtively recording his coach. That…eep.
September 14th, 2023 at 11:42 PM ^
You might be right about his legal chances. I am much more interested in how Ole Miss responds to the audio of Kiffin. Its more about that for me than the actual legal dispute
September 14th, 2023 at 11:47 PM ^
Suspension and sensitivity training most likely. I doubt they fire him for that.
Secretly recording someone without their permission is cringe. The only side we have heard from is the player’s. What were previous discussions like?
September 15th, 2023 at 6:51 AM ^
The claim is that white players who claimed mental health issues were allowed time to manage them and female athletes at Mississippi were allowed the same grace.
Evidence for those claims would be interesting.
September 15th, 2023 at 10:28 AM ^
It's the Fifth Circuit. Even prevailing on a rock-solid civil rights case (which this isn't) there is beyond difficult these days.
September 14th, 2023 at 11:55 PM ^
$30 mil is a lot of money. I wonder how they came up with that number.
September 15th, 2023 at 2:08 PM ^
So the university will settle for 15 mill you always go high with initial offer first rule of suing always go for more then really needed or wanted.
September 15th, 2023 at 7:35 AM ^
I'd be interested in knowing the extent of mental health services he received when he requested a mental break and his mom expressed concern to the trainer he was in a mental health crisis. As it reads, he had a couple meetings with a sports psychologist, which, if he was really experiencing severe depression, seems woefully lacking. Obviously "depression" is a loaded term that contains a really wide range of mental health conditions, but I think most university wellness centers would treat a situation, where both the student and a parent expressed significant concern, and the parent described it in terms of mental health crisis, with much more immediate concern. Certainly more than two meetings over the course of a couple weeks.
In a more general way, this article made me think that we don't pay nearly enough attention to the mental health effects of physical injuries on athletes. Oftentimes, much of their idea of their own success is tied up in the ability of their bodies to perform pretty incredible feats. When they lose that ability, even temporarily (and when you're injured, there's always the worry of "what if this isn't temporary"), it's got to have a huge impact mentally.
September 15th, 2023 at 7:44 AM ^
And add to that concussions, which can have a very detrimental effect on mental health. Not saying he had been concussed but it is football. I hope that coaches are at least aware of those consequences. Not something to be trifled with.
September 15th, 2023 at 9:09 AM ^
Kid had a concussion, check.
Athletes of other race and gender with depression treated differently, check.
Recording of coach calling ADA claimant the P word, check.
Recording stating "you are off the f-ing team" , check
(scholarship or no, there is a process for medical issues and that aint it).
Now imagine the kid leaves his office and commits suicide. Just because the harm is less does not mean the kid won't win something on the same basic facts.
You cannot handle mental health crisis for students or employees that way.
Setting aside that this is a student and not an employee, Kiffin should listen to his own advice. It is Kiffin who has to realize thst he is at work at a job in the real world. Not some fictionalized vision of manly ball. No employer could get away with speaking to an employee in crisis that way or to one requesting disability accommodation.
That goes double for a university employee with immense resources to direct to the welfare of student.
Kiffin really made it about himself. "You have to come meet with ME! I won't be ignored!". Who gives a damn? If he is that concerned, send safety officers to do a welfare check and wait until he is ready. I would focus the case about Kiffin's ego versus a kid in crisis. HR and student health professionals do those safety checks all the time without hauling people in crisis in for an ass chewing.
All the predicate elements are there for the kid to win. It may not be a lotto pay day but it will be something.
There may also be an DoE OCR complaint headed their way.
September 15th, 2023 at 12:24 PM ^
“Athletes of other race and gender with depression treated differently, check.” Except we don’t know if this true or not.
The audio confirms other parts and the concussion can be confirmed by medical report. If they can show that there is a discrepancy between now he was treated versus how players of different races and genders were Ole Miss and Kiffin are screwed.
September 15th, 2023 at 4:25 PM ^
Fair enough. But since a part of this thread has been dedicated to the discussion that "football is different", I don't think it will be hard to prove that student athletes in other sports (of other genders and/or race) were given accommodation and support when experiencing a mental health crisis...while Kiffin demonstrated the lack of judgment in the recording that Kiffin seems to show every so often...presumably cuz this is footbaw!!
September 15th, 2023 at 8:47 AM ^
Mississippi bars the recording, interception, use or disclosure of any in-person, telephonic or other communication without the consent of at least one party to the conversation. The state also prohibits the recording and disclosure of images made in violation of its hidden camera laws.
September 15th, 2023 at 8:55 AM ^
Are you saying that the kid who did the recording didn't have his own consent to do so? Just wondering why you posted about Mississippi's one person consent law.
September 15th, 2023 at 9:08 AM ^
He didnt have Kiffin's consent. Not absolving for what Kiffin said because it's not good, but this kid could have caused more problems for himself vs his intended outcome.
But this is based off of my legal understanding coming from legal procedural shows..
September 15th, 2023 at 9:25 AM ^
One party consent means one person on the call needs to consent to the recording. If a third party did the recording without either phone call participant knowing then it would be an issue.
September 15th, 2023 at 12:18 PM ^
One-party consent means that one of the parties in the conversation being recorded must have given consent to being recorded. That means the person doing the recording can self-consent and record the conversation, even if the second party is unaware. In short, he doesn't need Kiffin's consent for it to be legal. If he had gotten Kiffin's consent, two parties would have consented, which is above and beyond the standard.
There are many states which are two-party consent (actually it's "all-party" consent), meaning that everyone in the conversation would have to have consented to the recording. This is not relevant for MS.
September 15th, 2023 at 10:49 AM ^
Is this the "real" Lane Kiffin? I don't know what to say - a very enlightening (in a not good way) article.
Does Ole Miss have staff that works with players - especially when they are facing difficulties - academic challenges (which the athlete doesn't appear to be dealing with) - injuries - or, as in this case, mental health challenges?
It will once again be interesting to see what becomes of this. My guess is - not much more will be written or appear in media.
This is different, but not significantly so - from the "off the field" activities associated with Georgia. The Atlanta Journal Constitution published a "not so flattering" article about Georgia football - and, the powers that be pursued having the article being recanted.
It's the SEC - I guess certain things just mean more.
September 15th, 2023 at 2:02 PM ^
Well this kid is going to get a nice pay day from the school and Kiffin looks like a dick. There are better ways for Kiffin to handle this. First off Kiffin needs to know this is college and he is playing a sport. He isn't a guy making money off NIL. Just when I thought Kiffin might not be a dick anymore. Even though that receding was illegal the fact it came out in public was all that was needed for the kid.