Ot: Nick Saban on "and & but" when it comes to draft reports
Saban discusses how to evaluate a draft pick. Questions is, how many teams really pay attention to the "buts?"
https://twitter.com/JamesALight/status/1386320764664692739?s=20
I don’t have much love for Saban but this is a brilliantly simple way to get this idea across. If I ever get back into workforce development I’m going to use this
(yes I know my use of but creates some irony in this case!)
Saban is really good at simplifying things and making them easily relatable. Watching some of his interviews, especially the past few years, I’ve noticed this. I don’t necessarily like him, but I respect the hell out of what’s he’s done. He’s the GOAT, plain and simple.
Yeah but what’s his take on chicken?
....and milk???
/smh
Agree he is a very good coach and communicator, BUT...
I do not understand the negatvity about Saban that pervades this blog. The man is clearly the best college football coach in history and always seems reasonable, intelligent and open to change. He also has a reputation for being loved and lauded by the families of kids he has recruited.
Does he participate in illegal payoffs and the like, as much of the SEC does? I have no idea, but at this point - due to his unprecedented success - a Bama scholarship without any financial juice is still irresistable to a kid who wants to play at the highest level.
I mostly agree, but I'd bet the house that Alabama has a legion of bag men.
As always, it's a question of degrees. Maybe less than Georgia, probably more than whatever Michigan has .....
Sure, but also he runs the biggest dynasty in the sport and in the SEC. Of course people are going to hate him. I don't but I sure root against them basically every single game. He was one of the coaches complaining about Harbaugh when Harbs was out working the rest of college football early on. I can't remember the details but he also brought on a guy who had a history of sexual assault and I believe was shortly kicked out of Bama too for something similar. I haven't heard that he's universally beloved. It seems to be run like a business, like OSU, which is fine really.
I agree with this actually. If the most you can hold against a coach is he pays recruits that means he's probably a decent dude. Especially when you consider that every single school in college football and basketball, including Michigan, is using bag men.
I don't get it either. Other than people perhaps not liking the fact that he's winning too much or "cheating" quite a bit. I think Saban is rather old school in some of his thinking and that may have people think he's out of touch as well. If you watch Saban & Belichek's documentary(trailer in the link below), I think you might appreciate him (and Belicheck) quite a bit. I always tend I change my opinion on guys once I've seen how hard they work and how many years they put into their craft to get where they are.
(FWIW, Urban Meyer strikes me this way too, as another guy who would be great running any type of organization, not just football)
April 26th, 2021 at 12:01 PM ^
The HBO doc was great. Belichick is getting roasted by a few of the Boston sports radio morons (Felger and Mazz in particular) for not going to Fields or Lance's Pro Days. Watch the doc, think both are pretty clear on how they feel about Combine and Pro Days. Quoting the former DC, "what can you tell when they are out their in PJ's?"
Listening to Boston sports radio - Mazz in particular - will make you stupid. If you think Valenti is bad, at least he has an MSU lean. Boston media eats their own.
Listening to Mazz talk about QB's and his "immense" football knowledge, leads to the following considerations:
a. Tobin
b. Sagamore
c. Bourne
April 26th, 2021 at 11:59 AM ^
Bag men don't bother me much, although some coaches who are holier-than-thou while certainly cheating bug me. I don't think Saban pretends be be clean, so I don't include him in that, although as other have pointed out, he was vocal when Harbaugh was coming up with new, legal, ways to recruit. But bag men benefit the players, so I don't really care although I would like it to just be made legal and above-board.
One thing I do hold against Saban is that he was one of the biggest over-signers when that was allowed, and processed out a lot of kids out who did nothing wrong. The athletes got really screwed over because he needed to cut players, and they couldn't play for another team because they had signed to Alabama even though Bama was literally forcing them out.
April 26th, 2021 at 12:33 PM ^
I do not understand the negatvity about Saban that pervades this blog.
Me neither.
All the guy does is win. In the BCS and CFP eras, it's been mostly Bama and then someone else from a pool of 120 other teams.
He's doesn't go and run his mouth like other coaches, he doesn't do stuff for publicity or notoriety. He just wins.
People act like Nick Saban is the love child of Lou Holtz and Urban Meyer around here.
Great talk.
But... “the strength coach wouldn’t piss in him if he was on fire”.
And... that same player still gets drafted, sometimes to the detriment of the team.
That's a tremendously valuable lesson, not just for football players but for everyone.
I retired after a successful 35 year career in the IT industry. I saw things from both sides of the coin: from the technician side, and from the management side. I mentored a lot of young people in that 35 years. One of the lesson I always tried to impart is this: Don't be the type of person your management views as a problem requiring extra effort to manage. I saw so many really gifted technical people drag themselves down by being troublesome and difficult for their management. Be the kind of person management views as helping them achieve the management goals.
Nobody is irreplaceable. Across 35 years I saw many of those gifted technicians get laid off when the layoff rounds came down from on high. Why? Because some "were more trouble than they were worth." Don't be that person.
Makes sense. Totally different field but I teach English at a university in Korea. I quickly learned, not because of my own actions, the worst thing you can do is make extra work for other people. Don't make others' jobs harder or more stressful and you're fine. More important than being a good teacher in terms of keeping your job. You don't really have to be liked, but you definitely don't want to be THAT person.
April 26th, 2021 at 10:37 AM ^
BTDT, where were you when I could have used your mentorship?! I had to learn this lesson the hard way.
FWIW my two kids are the same as me, mentoring them does nothing. They have to travel the hard road.
April 26th, 2021 at 11:03 AM ^
Not everyone listened to me. I worked in a 'center of excellence' where the top of the top worked, and some of them were famous for their being grouchy and troublesome. They were absolutely world-class in their technical fields, and for those very few management put up with them. But some of the younger ones would look up to the old grouches and try to emulate them. "You're not them," I would coach. Some listened, some would not.
April 26th, 2021 at 11:35 AM ^
I have 1 boy that has to make all of his own mistakes. My other son seems to learn from the mistakes of others... One boy is 6’2” & one is 5’7”. One looks like a Scandinavian Viking, & the other looks like Albanian Jesus. I think I need to get a paternity test.
I was lucky to be taught that lesson early in life. I was at that age where I was a somewhat mouthy kid working a summer office, yet did good work. One day the supervisor pulled me aside and told me something to the effect: "Some people aren't going to care how good your work is if you have a bad attitude or are difficult to work with." I've never forgotten that.
In an alternate universe, Lloyd Carr did what he originally wanted to do and was adamant about retiring after the 2006 season. Michigan AD Bill Martin knew that 2006 was very likely going to be Saban's last season in Miami, and through back channels quietly let Saban's representative know well before the end of the season that Michigan was very interested, sweetened with an eye-popping financial offer.
Saban had been attracted to the possibility of coaching at Alabama, but the Crimson Tide hired WVU coach Rich Rodriguez after the 2006 season, closing off that possibility.
Saban was announced as Michigan's new coach on January 3, 2007, and quickly established the Wolverines as the dominant program in the Big Ten and a perennial contender for the national championship, capturing the 2008, 2012, and 2018 national titles. Wolverines fans are confronting the 2021 season and the fact that Saban is almost 70 with trepidation—who can possibly succeed the coach who is universally regarded as one of the best in college football history?
April 26th, 2021 at 10:36 AM ^
Would you mind terribly adding in a blurb in that alternate universe about how I met Emmanuelle Chriqu in an an elevator in West Hollywood in 2006, made her laugh, took her on a date, married her, then lived happily ever after?
Thanks in advance.
April 26th, 2021 at 11:57 AM ^
If I met "Sloan" in an elevator, I would've focused much more on the "butts" than the ands!!! Think I would have focused on the "ands" too. They all are perfect.
OK, except for the happily ever after part—I'd have to include that eventually she cheats on you with your best friend, then hooks up with a shady divorce lawyer and drains your bank and investment accounts before filing for divorce and taking the kids and everything else, forcing you to live in a van down by the river.
Damn that got dark quickly... thought that you were going to say that you were either the best friend or the divorce lawyer, but turns out the story just ends with him living in a van by the river.
this is absolutely golden....love the "how do you add value for yourself." I think I'll be weaving this message into the life plans discussion with my college sophomore.....
April 26th, 2021 at 10:05 AM ^
I think the distaste for Saban comes from the fact he was shadier earlier on in his tenure at schools, and had a streak where something like 6 or 7 kids were medical'ed at Alabama in a couple of years and then a couple came out and said they were basically forced to do so because the coaches wanted to open up their scholarship spots. He also had some shady stuff with boosters paying for his mortgage on a lake home and a couple other things that rubbed people the wrong way. And while he probably doesn't have to use bagmen as frequently now because of all the winning, that foundation of success was built from that behavior for years so we can't completely ignore it.
That said, Saban also seems like a guy who isn't as "rah-rah college footbaw" as some of his contemporaries and feels like someone you could have a reasonable conversation with outside of sports. And he's spot-on here, though I will say that "and" and "but" can be subjective based on the evaluator and so guys can be dinged for being outspoken about social issues, for example, and that might not actually be a negative to others. But he's right that you have to keep improving and not rest on your laurels and expect your flaws to be ignored.
April 26th, 2021 at 11:34 AM ^
I don’t recall boosters paying for his house being “shady”. I remember reading about in the paper down here is Alabama. It was along the lines of “he’s such a fabulous, winning coach, we need to give him an award for winning so he never leaves”
I'll admit to not being extremely well-versed in the goings-on of Saban but I remember his mortgage being paid for an organization purportedly aligned with Alabama athletics right around the time it sounded like he might be leaving. I guess it just rubbed me a bit raw; I know it happens at lots of schools but I'm generally annoyed college athletes get in trouble for getting a meal paid for but a coach can get an extra $3M from a school booster without anyone getting worked up about it.
April 26th, 2021 at 12:20 PM ^
FWIW I dated a girl a while back whose little brother was recruited by and ultimately committed to Alabama. And she absolutely loved Saban -- he spends a ton of time talking to families and apparently comes off as very genuine in that setting. Out of curiosity, I also inquired as tactfully as I could about the bag situation, and it sounded like the quid pro quos were actually a lot more explicit at other schools (this was the 2012-13 recruiting cycle).
April 26th, 2021 at 10:06 AM ^
That guy is very good at his job - very good advice for his players there as well.
April 26th, 2021 at 10:25 AM ^
This is a great lesson.
I've been on teams/business units where there is a high-performing individual who is a "but." Typically, they aren't worth the trouble.
April 26th, 2021 at 11:15 AM ^
Very few are so good they're worth the trouble. In my 35 years in the IT industry I met perhaps two, maybe three, such people. They were tolerated because when the sh*t hit the fan, they were the ones you wanted to lead the technical diagnostics.
I knew a fair number of really good and really helpful / cooperative people. They were joys to work with. They received promotions and pay increases. Coincidence? I think not.
April 26th, 2021 at 12:14 PM ^
I would agree that if someone is like the Michael Jordan of their field, you put up with the "buts."
If they're not a "Hall of Famer," their attitude and general shittiness usually outweighs their skills or professional contributions.
One see this quite a bit in sales organizations. Some high-performing salespeople are completely selfish. While sales is somewhat of an individual - not team - sport, the hit to morale can be a serious detriment. Would be interesting to study, however, if the move to working from home lessens the negative effect of the "buts."
April 26th, 2021 at 12:19 PM ^
The best coach in the history of college football has some sage advice. I don't know why people are surprised when he says stuff like this, love him or hate him, but Nick Saban is an icon for his leadership, he has thousands of players who love him and would run through a brick wall for him. You don't get to that without being a genuine person. Saban has a way of stripping anything down to the simplest terms.
Good advice!
This is great advice for anyone entering the workforce.