OT: New Development In Questionable SAT Scores For Memphis Players
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/news/story?id=4233718
"Former University of Memphis forward Robert Dozier's initial SAT score was invalidated by the company that scores the exam, and when he took the test a second time, he scored 540 fewer points, ESPN.com has learned through an open records request.
In addition, a person claiming to be a faculty member at his high school in suburban Atlanta wrote an anonymous letter to the NCAA Initial-Eligibility Clearinghouse questioning his score on the admissions test, records obtained from the University of Georgia show.
That prompted Georgia to deny Dozier admission. He ended up at Memphis, where he helped lead the Tigers to the 2008 NCAA Final Four. "
Dozier apparently went from scoring 1260 out of 1600 to getting a 720, Which like, no way dude. His PSAT had him in the 4th percentile, too, so the low score isn't a fluke.
This whole thing makes me really glad we have Beilein.
at first i thought it would be good that basketball was adopting football-like rules w/ respect to not allowing players to go straight from high school to the professional ranks.
well, i'm wrong. if they have the ability then they should be able to just go pro. Yeah, Calipari is dirty but that aside, why hold these players back? It is just complicating the system and now we have these SAT stories and high school players potentially going to Europe rather than attend college for a mere semester.
I agree with you. I used to be very much in favor of making them go for a year. It's clear that it just doesn't work, and it just screws up NCAA basketball for everyone. There are too many one and done types anyway, it's starting to ruin the game. Throw in the Caliparis of the world, and it's kinda fucked.
Either:
1. Go pro directly out of high school. OR
2. Be at least three years removed from high school.
You are not draft-eligible in between.
That's the way baseball does it. I think that would cause problems with guys like Blake Griffin who come to school and blow up. Almost every year you'd get one kid who has a huge year, but can't go pro and has issues either with agents or grades or something. It's something to think about though.
I like your suggestion and I would like to add to it. I would like to see a buyout clause similar to what goes on in Europe.
If you go pro before your 3rd season you have to compensate the college.
A college basketball player gets much more exposure than a D-league player. Think of how much more in endorsements Blake Griffin is going to demand because of his college exposure, if he had gone to the D-league he would have played in relative anonymity. Big time college athletics provides much much more than tuition.
Mateen Cleaves was a marginal NBA player but the name he made for himself at MSU will last a lifetime.
I agree that it would be better for the kids and for college basketball to let kids go pro out of high school. The problem, though, is that it's the NBA and the player's association that sets the rules and they have no incentive to change them.
4th percentile is incredible. I suppose someone has to set the (near) floor.
And a Memphis basketball player is exactly who I would expect to do that.
Truth. Also the author of a much discussed Michigan football e-blog.
Too easy? I'm almost ashamed.
must have eaten a big bowl of wheaties that particular morning.
b/c it is the philosophy in this country that every one be forced to get an education, whether they want it or not.
No, the philosophy that caused this was "Nobody knows who these lottery draft picks are, and on top of it most of them have to sit the bench and develop for a year or two while earning lottery pick salaries." The solution was to force them to develop for a year and gain exposure for free (as far as the NBA is concerned) in college. And if that causes eligibility problems for the NCAA, well, that's not the NBA's problem, is it? I don't see this hurting Derrick Rose or the Bulls very much right now.
is that the kid only has to stay eligible the first semester if he knows he's going pro. Which makes a mockery of the whole student/athlete saying.
In most cases the kid coming out of HS doesn't make an impact on the team that drafted him. In a lot of cases all the team drafting him does is prepare him for his next destination as in the case of Jermaine O'Neal. I understand why teams would want the rule, but I think they should have to stay two years as fundamentals in the NBA are atrocious. You also have these kids being isolated as they are not able to go to the same places their 21 year old+ teammates go.
Brent Darnell (MSU hockey commit) goes to my school and he got in the 3rd percentile on the PSAT I believe.
I think you should list your score as well for full disclosure.
I got in the 98th percentile actually. 210. Hopefully national merit.
Nice. Likely an honoriffic, but not finalist. IIRC, while it changes in a given year, it's typically 213-217 as the cutoff.
It was 209 for Michigan last year. Michigan does have lower scores than most states though.
Good luck then.
Thanks. I will probably go to Michigan though and UM couldn't care less about NMF.
No offense, but no one cares about that except the finalists themselves.
Actually, a lot of schools will give you a lot of $. I know Texas gives half rides; some lesser schools(ASU, Auburn, Bama) give full rides. It's also $2500 for the finalists. I am not made of cash so I could use it.
I was a Nat. Merit Finalst and unfortunately Michigan is a school that does not give any money for it. It's their policy, so don't get your hopes up.
I went to college at Texas as a finalist and they didn't give me anything for it, as I recall. Though it pains me to say it, I think OU is one of the schools that gives the most money/recognition for it.
But congratulations either way.
I remember a NYT article a while back where it said that Florida used to pay huge amounts of money for finalists, a lot of them were getting full rides I think.
I was a finalist, and I think Western gave me an extra $3000 for it. It was an unexpected and welcome surprise that pushed me over the top for a full ride and gave me $375 a semester for beer.
My big bro is a freak who missed one question each on the PSAT, SAT and ACT. Apparently he had something against perfection. He chose UM from about two dozen free-ride offers.
I have a question. Whenever an MSM type feels that the NBA should scrap the one-year rule, they frame it as if a player has the right to play in the NBA. Nobody has the right to play in the NBA. It's a private organization that has every right to set membership guidelines.
Personally I like the rule. I think it benefits everyone:
- The NBA gets a better look at the players they're drafting and better-developed players overall.
- The NCAA gets to market better talent.
- The fans get to see this talent play in college
- And, most importantly, the players are forced to actually find out if they're NBA-ready before going to the draft, or at least get a better idea of it. I think this is huge. So much is made of the Derrick Roses and the Greg Odens and such, who, poor babies, had to put off their big payday for a year. Kobe and KG are held up as shining examples of proof that allowing players to go to the league straight out of high school works. Nobody ever mentions those that bomb out and end up doing god knows what, bouncing around the D-league or Europe or whatever. I think there is less of this with the one-year rule.
That said, obviously there's an issue with the "student"-athlete thing. If we really, really want to solve this problem, it's simple: Have the NBA declare ineligible any player who also fucks up his eligibility in college.
That'll never happen though, so failing that, I like the idea of doing it the way baseball does it. You could even throw in a corollary for the Blake Griffin thing above (player blowing up in his freshman or sophomore year) where a player can declare for the draft sans agent and then gets returned to school (whether he wants to or not) if he's not picked first overall, or second if such a player was picked first, or third if....you get the idea. Kind of convoluted, but probably not less so than the whole crazy system now anyway.
But why is an institution of higher education now tasked, by the NBA, to be the weed-out spot for kids who have no intention of getting an education? This has nothing to do with the missions of the schools.
Who's being tasked with anything? Colleges have every freedom not to recruit these kids if they don't want to and many don't. Look how many schools are shying away from Lance Stephenson. It's the school's decision to recruit a player they know is gonna be gone after a year. Ohio State does it on purpose and given how many of these players they're going for, I'd say they don't feel "tasked" at all. Likewise, nobody is forcing these players to go to college. Brandon Jennings didn't seem to think so.
I worded what I said poorly - I didn't mean to imply that the NCAA was being forced into their position. What I'm saying is that the rule creates a situtation where the NCAA is basically being tempted (and often falling for that temptation) to make a mockery out of themselves. Guys like Derrick Rose, Dozier, Anthony, Mayo, etc. have no place in a University - and I don't mean that as an insult, college isn't for everyone.
you list. My biggest problem with the age limits and professional athletes is the inconsistency from sport to sport. The NBA one-year rule smacks slightly of racism to me, at least it does when I hear the average Joe on the street who supports it. That same Joe typically has no problem with 15 year old tennis stars. Or a 17 year old Michelle Wie with a tour card, or an 18 year-old center in the NHL. I'm guessing if these were tow-headed otherwise Duke-bound players instead of predominantly inner city kids with tats, braids and entourages, the league would have never passed the rule. The Kobes, Lebrons, Garnetts, Dwight Howards etc. of the world are clearly ready for the NBA at 18. The Sebastian Telfairs, not so much, but so be it. I'd rather give the kids their opportunity to cash in. I know I would be pissed if I were in the same Nikes. There's a limited window to earn as a professional athlete. The NBA has arbitrarily shortened it for some. If these kids bust out of the league in 2 years or blow their mini-fortunes, it's a shame, but that wouldn't make them any different than a Walter Berry or Chris Washburn.
I'd like to hear for a labor lawyer on the issue: what protections does the league or players union have under the law to set these kinds of rules. For example, could they put in a age limit on the other end of the scale? Sorry Dikembe, but you're 45 now. Can't play in the league any longer. Anyone?
Here's the thing with those other leagues. Baseball and hockey have very extensive support league structures. Hockey in particular. Junior hockey, if I'm not mistaken, helps its players pay for college. A player can be drafted at 18 and not even have to sign with that team for several years. He can go to college, junior, wherever, and be signed when he's good and ready.
Baseball, too. I like the rule about staying in three years. And if you come straight out of high school, the organization is extremely extensive with all manner of coaches and like six different teams you can play for outside the big club, and they can put you at the right level of competition.
As for some of those other examples, Michelle Wie is a perfect argument in favor of something to protect herself from herself, having been dubbed the next great thing and never having won squat. I definitely think she'd have benefitted from a low-pressure year golfing in college and dominating. And golf does have an age limit, too. It's 18. She wasn't playing with a tour card, she had sponsor's exemptions til then.
Also, it's easy to cite the examples in favor of letting basketball players go straight to the draft from high school. How about Korleone Young? DeSagana Diop? Andray Blatche, Ndudi Ebi, Ousmane Cisse, Leon Smith, James Lang....the list goes on, and that's just the draft busts. I don't even know about the ones who took the leap and didn't even get drafted - I suppose a little research might find out. But if the cost is that a couple talented athletes have to wait a little while for their bazillion dollar paychecks (Congrats! You just won the Mega Millions jackpot, but you can't claim it til this time next year. Big deal?) or that a few schools like Memphis or coaches like Calipari get outed for messing with the academics (happens all the time anyway, UGA didn't need the NBA's rule to get caught) and the benefits are those listed above and that fewer players get thrown on the trash heap, I'm all for it.
of MLB or NHL have to do with the prohibition of your typical 18 year old from the NBA? If you're drafted by Canucks, you don't get money until you sign. Nothing's guaranteed, is it? You can go play college or juniors, fine. Doesn't mean you'll see a day in the NHL or a dime of an NHL contract. Baseball's development structure is in place because it's a necessity, not because of any particular position on the number of years removed a player is from high school. 1 in 1,000 baseball prospects are ready for the majors at 18. Basketball ratio in any given year is much higher, I'm guessing, where sometimes 2, 3, or 4 of the top 30-40 prospects are high schoolers.
Also, I assume you're not lumping the busts you mention with the "trash heap" crowd, right? Most of them got first round, guaranteed NBA contract money, no?
Ultimately the presumed benefits of a year removed from H.S. probably outweigh some of the problems I have with the rule. Is it the end of the world that they have to wait? Probably not, if they stay healthy and out of trouble. Still, telling someone who has the talent, skills and physical development for the NBA at 18 'Sorry, you can't play for one year' at best strikes me as slightly ludicrous and at worst discriminatory. What other profession categorically denies employment opportunities to a highly qualified segment of the workforce based solely on years removed from high school? I'm sure there are some, but beyond the NFL, nothing comes to mind.
As for Wie, I used her as an example of someone talented enough to turn pro at upon H.S. graduation. 18 is reasonable, and I agree that going a different route would have prepared her better to compete on tour. But why does that matter to anyone else other than Wie? As a young teen, she had a game like few if any female golfers in the world. In that she and her family generated substantial press and income from her unique abilities, fame, looks, etc. is fine by me. If she never wins an event, so be it. It will be disappointing for her, but that's a far cry from making her the poster child for "saving herself from herself." She's not Jennifer Capriati, is she? She's a 19 year old multi millionaire who still draws enormous galleries, and seems to have a pretty decent head on her shoulders despite the early disappointments and embarrassments or her career.
To be clear - the age limit has nothing to do with "making sure players don't bust" or "encouraging them to go to college". It was a concession made to the NBA player's union as a way to stop having older marginal veterans lose roster spots to raw, unproven kids. The veterans, as members of the player's association, have votes. The kids do not. It's literally a fight for the last few spots on a roster.
Right, and on top of that it's beneficial from the owner's standpoint because kids who were drafted out of high school would rarely be NBA ready and would usually spend their first few years riding the bench anyway.
Also it gives younger players exposure and lets players develop a following before they enter the league, ie Carmelo Anthony.
Wow. That makes a ton of sense.
But it sucks to think that Adonal Foyle is keeping me from seeing John Wall shitting on NBA guards next year.
they don't just go MLB and let kids go back to school. I really like the way the MLB draft is set up.
I wholeheartedly agree. The NBA could kill two birds with one stone here, and expand upon the NBDL with kids who don't want to go to school/don't have their academics in order. They could go to a system where you can be drafted out of high school, but if you go to college instead, you can be drafted again in two years.
As much as I despise Bobby Knight, he has it right when he says that a kid only has to go to class for one semester and play a year, and then enter the draft. This system would not only go a long way towards fixing a lot of the academic problems with college ball, but it would also bolster the development of the minor league system that the NBA has right now, with kids who aren't ready to play in the NBA but can barely read a coloring book or don't want anything to do with school.
Quick question: where did Alan Trammell go to college? How about Ken Griffey Jr.? The system that MLB uses works just fine for them, but not basketball? Sorry, but I'm not buying it.
I said it in response to someone else but it's worth re-saying for this: MLB has six layers of developmental structure. They have AAA, AA, high-A, low-A, short-season A, and rookie ball which is actually also divided into two sections. Each MLB team has their own affiliates that they don't share. There are something like 150+ teams in 19 leagues. At any given time there will be about 150 players in each major league organization. This is a setup that is as old as baseball and evolved over time.
Meanwhile, the NBDL is the NBA's only minor league, and there aren't enough teams to go around, so they're shared among the big clubs, who can stash two players max on their affiliate teams, and only first- or second-year players at that. This league is not even ten years old.
The NBA can't just wave its wand and have a minor league system like baseball. It's too late - they can't compete, salary-wise, with Europe. You tell a guy too often that you're sending him to friggin' damn Bismarck, North Dakota, and he will lose patience and go to Greece or Italy and make his millions there.
These systems aren't even close to comparable. It's like looking at the Premiership in England and wondering why MLB doesn't use relegation and promotion too.