OT - Need advice on a potential new job
Hi all,
This is OT, and please feel free to neg away or delete if needed. However, this board is filled with some very thoughtful folks, and I'm in a pinch.
I recently applied for an executive level position (I'm currently just below executive level) and after making it pretty close to the finish line, I've been asked for contact information for my current direct supervisor. I've already supplied additional references, but I'm really on the fence about turning over my boss's information as it is not common knowledge that I've applied elsewhere and interviewed already. I really feel like there's only negatives here. I'm not hiding anything, but I'm worried about rocking the boat if this opportunity doesn't shake out.
Have you been in this situation? Is this common at the executive level? Would it scare you off if I said no? Is this a bullshit request and a red flag?
November 3rd, 2019 at 10:34 PM ^
I've never done it. I've always just told them exactly what you just said and they always understood. Of course I'm only ever applying for engineering positions, don't know if it works differently for exec level positions.
November 4th, 2019 at 8:39 AM ^
My thoughts exactly. I'm also an engineer and I've always said no to "Can we contact your current employer?" It hasn't killed any opportunities for me yet. But engineers are typically very risk-averse so maybe HR expects that response from us? Lol
November 3rd, 2019 at 10:36 PM ^
Certainly no easy answer here. You didn't make it clear if this was a position was at a different company, I assume it is. And if that's the case then I don't think it's a wise move to do that. And I would also have to believe that this new opportunity hiring manager/HR staff would have to understand this and can't hold it against you.
The ONLY way I can see saying yes to this is if you have a very good relationship with your direct manager and can have a bit of a heart to heart with him/her. Even then that's risky.
If it is an opportunity within your organization then it should be an easy yes and fairly standard.
November 3rd, 2019 at 10:39 PM ^
It is with another organization. I have a pretty good relationship with my boss, but I've seen how quickly that line can be erased with that person as well.
November 4th, 2019 at 1:33 AM ^
Whatever happens if you tell current employer you’re leaving & they give you a counter offer think really hard before accepting it. Common practice to keep the person around long enough just to find a replacement & then fire them. Now you’re out both current & prospective employer.
November 4th, 2019 at 6:55 AM ^
after 40+ years on this earth, there's one thing I've become 100% convinced of: that HR people have no fucking soul
November 4th, 2019 at 9:18 AM ^
Slightly different opinion: HR people are useless and even detrimental to real employees.
November 4th, 2019 at 10:33 AM ^
Slightly different opinion #2
Message Board guys think they are better than everyone else.
Except, of course, their pretend wife or girlfriend
November 4th, 2019 at 3:14 PM ^
Found the HR rep.
November 4th, 2019 at 3:36 PM ^
Sorry I hurt your feelings, chief.
November 4th, 2019 at 8:21 AM ^
I agree with my man UNC. I do a lot of hiring, and I find it wholly unreasonable to demand a report from your current manager. OK, I get that it's a senior position, but this new company has no loyalty to you and has not offered you a job.
Perhaps you can show them your negotiation skills and offer something instead, like perhaps a former direct boss? Or maybe they just want to be the ones to choose which reference they talk to so you don't have your handpicked choice. (I have found that most of the time references only give a fully honest answer if I happen to know the reference myself.)
Lastly, if your manager really likes having you on his/her team, they could easily sabotage your standing with the other organization.
November 3rd, 2019 at 10:37 PM ^
If you don't turn over the info, your chances of landing the job are going to take a hit. If your boss is a decent human being, he won't begrudge you the opportunity for a promotion. The person who asked for it--ask him/her if that request means you are receiving serious consideration, then ask for a day to let your supervisor know. Your supervisor is more likely to be red-assed that the request came out of the blue without prior knowledge. It's important you let your boss know before he/she receives a reference call.
November 4th, 2019 at 7:11 AM ^
Great advice Fishbulb
The best boss trains their direct reports to take his/her place. Ask what your boss has for their long/short term job plans and how you are viewed. That may open a conversation for “what if I were to...?”
edit - good luck!
November 3rd, 2019 at 10:41 PM ^
This post is really funny if you read it imagining that it's Gattis talking about applying for the Rutgers job
November 3rd, 2019 at 11:00 PM ^
just watched that for the first time in a year or two. just as good as the first I saw it when my buddy drove over to our house on Linden Street in the student ghetto and essentially kidnapped us to make us go watch some random movie at the theater on Carpenter Road. He just watched it earlier that day, drove over, and didn't take no for an answer. I'm glad he did that.
November 4th, 2019 at 10:06 AM ^
Ok, so do you believe everything was made up by Verbal?
Because halfway through the movie Chazz Palminteri gets called out of the room by the other cop and they discuss the case and they bring up the lawyer Kobayashi from a related case. But at the end we are led to believe the lawyers name is made up because it is on the bottom of the coffee cup.
I've seen some people say some of the story is true and some is false, but then why is the coffee cup such a big reveal?
November 3rd, 2019 at 10:42 PM ^
I would hope your current employer would realize your just trying to advance yourself. I would talk to your boss and explain it that way. Tell him your not unhappy but don’t see the chance to advance in your current situation and your goal is executive level and you are going after it now
November 3rd, 2019 at 10:45 PM ^
Trust your gut. Don’t use your current boss as a reference.
November 4th, 2019 at 10:52 AM ^
I agree with this advice. I literally went through the same thing earlier this year and I said no to them talking to my then boss. My old boss would have sabotaged me and I would have been in a bad spot. I worked there for over 13 years and was able to give them several other good references who knew what I did. I would try to think of other references that really understand your current role and that you trust. Good luck.
November 3rd, 2019 at 10:46 PM ^
I’ve been in HR for 38 years. Your two choices are before you. I believe the prospective employer will understand and respect that your search is confidential. If not, it tells you much about them. If you want to oblige them, tell your current boss first. It’s a free market and you’re a free agent...if current boss wants to keep you, the ball will be in his court. Totally your call. Best of luck.
November 3rd, 2019 at 10:57 PM ^
I think this is on the mark. If the prospective employer has said you’re the choice, but we need to make sure you’re in good standing with your current employer, that’s reasonable. If they’re not prepared to say you’re “it”, then it’s unreasonable to seek to talk with your current employer. If they insist, then you probably don’t want to work for them. If you are “it”, then you ask for time to tell your current boss and explain to him/her that this is a big promotion and you wouldn’t be considering it if it were not a promotion.
November 4th, 2019 at 8:55 AM ^
Spot on. If the prospective employer doesn't understand/appreciate this then you probably don't want to work for them anyways. So I would be in favor of taking a stand on not fulfilling their request but politely reiterate why and see what they do.
November 4th, 2019 at 10:24 AM ^
came to say something like this, saw it's already said, so I'll go back to smoking my joint.
November 3rd, 2019 at 10:46 PM ^
I have nothing to offer but...
Good luck!!
November 3rd, 2019 at 10:46 PM ^
I wouldn't do so, if you feel that doing so would jeopardize your current position. If you feel you should refuse I'd explain your position to them, in the most professional and confident way possible. It's possible they may only be testing your response to a potentially unreasonable request.
November 3rd, 2019 at 10:52 PM ^
The best part of the replies here is that they are all genuine. Well done, mgopeeps.
Both answers are appropriate - decline and let them know why or speak with your current supervisor first. You’ll have to decide which is right for you.
Best of luck to you!
November 3rd, 2019 at 10:55 PM ^
Went through it last week. I was offered and accepted a position with a new company. I put my current boss down as a reference, but since he was on vacation, I asked them to hold off on making that call until he got back and I could talk to him in person first. They understood and I received no negative feedback.
So in summary, give them the info, but make sure they don't make contact unless they are 100% on you and are going through the motions.
November 3rd, 2019 at 11:03 PM ^
Hard “no” from me. I don’t know what you mean by exec level, but I know many director and above industry types, and they’re not giving out that sort of information when they job hop.
These guys either want you or they don’t. If the former, saying no won’t change that. If the latter, you’re not getting the new job either way.
November 3rd, 2019 at 11:26 PM ^
Bingo. These guys already know as to whether they are making a job offer or not.
Anyone becoming a Director+ would already have (generally) 8+ years experience and a ton of non-current-boss references. That's sufficient information for the job offer-er.
Like you, I'd be an absolute "hard no" here.
November 3rd, 2019 at 11:10 PM ^
Don’t. There is no reason you should give a potential employer the right to call your current employer.
And there is no reason why they would want to.
November 4th, 2019 at 6:35 AM ^
November 4th, 2019 at 12:20 PM ^
That’s great for the prospective employer...not so great for the candidate. Very few people/companies wouldn’t hold it against you for applying to another job while you’re employed with them currently.
November 4th, 2019 at 12:24 PM ^
Right, which is why an applicant would have to give permission to the prospective employer to contact the current employer.
November 3rd, 2019 at 11:14 PM ^
My mother in law has held some exec level positions and this isn't uncommon. Tough call here, probably no one here is going to be able to give you meaningful advice without knowing your relationships and standing with your current company.
November 3rd, 2019 at 11:22 PM ^
This seems like a red flag to me, but only because I'm assuming that you disclosed to somebody at the prospective employer early on in the process that this was a confidential pursuit.
It could conceivably be some kind of test, but that would also be a red flag.
Trust your instincts here, and while others have made some valid points, under no circumstances would I accede to this request unless my current boss already knew I was looking around and was generally supportive.
November 3rd, 2019 at 11:37 PM ^
November 3rd, 2019 at 11:42 PM ^
Isn't it kind of a faux pas for a prospective employer to request the contact info of a current candidate's supervisor?
This strikes me as a highly unusual request. I would say no. Don't overthink it.
November 3rd, 2019 at 11:44 PM ^
I find it extremely unusual they would expect you to be ok with them contacting your current boss. I would consider it bad form.
November 3rd, 2019 at 11:48 PM ^
The correct answer is to adk them why they want this info...and simply say if my employer is contacted it will cause me problems. Pretty normal conversation...if they say they want to c9ntact him then there is something odd about who you're interviewing with...in general it's never done.
November 4th, 2019 at 12:33 AM ^
My job position is vastly different from yours. However . . . imhe, it really depends on where you are in the process, and where the prospective employer is as regards you.
- Are they prepared to offer you the position, but are doing final vetting? That's one thing.
- Assuming you are in the home stretch, I would want to talk to your current employer first, before they contact your supervisor. This, of course, is contingent on a good relationship with your current boss.
- Assuming they are doing final reviews, are prepared to offer you the position, and you have talked to your boss first, this seems a good thing.
- This shows your own transparency. It also allows your current employer not to be blindsided, and to make a counter offer, should you receive a new position.
I have had a director under me pursued by several other potential employers. This director has had other offers. I appreciate having an open relationship with my employee . . . this allows for good communication, and has been helpful.
November 4th, 2019 at 12:45 AM ^
Beware. Only a Sparty would ask to speak with your supervisor.
November 4th, 2019 at 3:37 AM ^
Underrated comment.
November 4th, 2019 at 2:49 AM ^
I think that this is an unusual request for them to make before offering you the job. I think most people, when you're at the C-suite or partner level, know that job searches are a little tricky when you're going outside of the organization and will do the search discreetly. You've gone this far in the search process and they must think highly enough of you. Is your direct supervisor/boss' opinion (who may end up retaliating) really going to make that big of an difference?
November 4th, 2019 at 6:27 AM ^
I do pre-employment screenings for a living. We never contact current employers unless an applicant gives written permission. A prospective employer (or its background check company) should not contact its applicant’s current employer unless given permission. The current manager could decide to fire the applicant if he or she is seeking other employment, if said manager is an asshole. There are some people in this world who are not assholes, though, and would be understandable if he or she learns one of his or her employees is seeking new employment. My advice is to tell your prospective employer that you don’t want your current manager or HR department contacted unless a job offer is made in writing. I assume the references you provided are confidential ones from your current employer or former supervisors who no longer work there. Some of my clients ask my team to interview listed supervisors instead of references. I deal with this situation almost every day with my job.
November 4th, 2019 at 6:28 AM ^
I agree with this answer.
if it’s a clear promotion, any reasonable person should understand. People look for better jobs, and promotions. Period. Id cover your bases here though. Make sure the new company isn’t just like sending some pool questionnaire his way (force them to tell you how many people are still under consideration). Also confirm that they will actually contact your current boss.
And you need to be the one to tell your current boss first if you know the new company is definitely going to contact him.
November 4th, 2019 at 6:32 AM ^
I would not provide it to them. Have a discussion with them explaining that you've been through an extensive interview process, you have already provided them with multiple references, and you are all in for this role but providing them this information could jeopardize your current job. Ask what questions or concerns they may still have with you in the prospective role and work with them to answer those.
November 4th, 2019 at 7:01 AM ^
No way. If you are going for an executive position/compensation -- the hiring org has to do their 'own homework' without you jeopardizing your current role.
Nearly all bosses will 'react negatively' to a subordinate letting them know "I'm thinking about leaving".
Just some $0.02
Good luck.
November 4th, 2019 at 7:51 AM ^
I love a circle jerk on Monday morning!
Seeking advice on a college football message board.
Yep, we all have the best advice. Hence, thousands of posts all day long on each and every thread that pops up, no matter how innocuous.
I say screw it. The company you, ahem, work for will jettison you like yesterdays leftover meatloaf, like the old secretary when a new hottie steps in, like your eldest kid as soon as the new young hot (third) wife presents you with kid number 8, like the starting QB on your favorite college football team, like Bill Bellichek the night before the Super Bowl releasing a player who has started all season long.
Give out your contact info to anyone and everyone. Pizza Delivery, though, is not exactly Executive Level. Just ask any of the hundreds of posters here.
November 4th, 2019 at 11:13 AM ^
You mad bro?
What a weird thing to post, if you get so triggered about someone asking for advice, here’s a price of unsolicited advice for you: don’t click on it.
Best of luck on your quest to post nonsensical stream of consciousness diatribes.