OT: Lions Trade Hockenson to Vikings
November 1st, 2022 at 1:44 PM ^
Only had another year on his contract and I don't think they were interested in extending him. Wish it wasn't inter-division, but whatever.
Lions now have the draft capital to turn the Rams' first rounder (probably ending up somewhere between 11-20) into another top 10 or to trade into the back half of the first round for three first rounders.
Lions own 5 of the first 65 picks.
November 1st, 2022 at 1:46 PM ^
Meh…I’ve seen this before. I hate to say it. Hope springs eternal and all but the Lions Could have picks 1-65 and they’d still suck.
November 1st, 2022 at 1:56 PM ^
But i bet whomever got picked 66th would be a HoFer!
November 1st, 2022 at 3:28 PM ^
do you think Hock is a HoFer?
November 1st, 2022 at 2:00 PM ^
I don't disagree. Just saying it's a logical move. But the team never really seems to benefit from making logical or illogical decisions.
November 1st, 2022 at 2:11 PM ^
Could be, but I have no complaints with what Brad Holmes has done so far, which includes this trade.
November 1st, 2022 at 2:08 PM ^
People endlessly using the term "draft capital" drives me nuts for some reason.
November 1st, 2022 at 2:48 PM ^
draft capital draft capital draft capital draft capital draft capital draft capital draft capital draft capital
November 1st, 2022 at 3:02 PM ^
well played! I actually laughed out loud. lol
November 1st, 2022 at 2:08 PM ^
Probably the right move, but it's hard to get excited about an organization that just turned this:
- 2019 overall #8 pick
- 2023 4th round pick
- 2024 conditional draft pick
into this:
- 2023 2nd round pick
- 2024 3rd round pick
It's these kinds of results that leave the Lions in a talent deficit.
On the bright side: good for TJ. He's probably going to play in a playoff game sooner than almost all of his former teammates.
November 1st, 2022 at 2:13 PM ^
You have to factor in what they'd get in return for letting him walk after his contract is up after 2023 as well as cap space they're not using had they extended him.
Bears only got a special teamer, a second and fifth round picks for the NFL's leading tackler. Hockenson is a receiving only TE and a liability in blocking. He's not nearly the player that Smith is IMO.
Doesn't mean the Lions will do anything with these picks. Probably futile since it's the Lions. But I think this is a pretty good trade when looking at it,
November 1st, 2022 at 2:22 PM ^
I think a lot of people just see 8th pick traded for second round without considering time left on contract or how expensive Hock would be. Similar to Smith as you just pointed out whose contract is up this year.
I think the initial pick was dumb because of the ceiling for a TE, but that was not a pick by Brad Holmes and he's now making the most of what he has and investing it in the rebuild.
November 1st, 2022 at 2:58 PM ^
He is not investing it to REbuild. That implies that there was something previously built. He is investing to build, essentially from scratch.
November 1st, 2022 at 4:16 PM ^
Just once in my life, I would like to see a juvenated lions team.
November 1st, 2022 at 2:22 PM ^
I agree it's better than letting him walk. No doubt.
But this trade is simply the ending chapter of the Lions setting yet another top-10 draft pick on fire. A long, slow fire.
Every NFL is granted draft capital every year; some more than others. It's up to each team to maximize that capital through on-field performance or more draft capital. This story ends with the Lions doing neither, like so many before.
Do this over and over again and you have a recipe for decades of incompetence.
Right move today, but getting to today's situation is a tragedy of wasted draft capital.
November 1st, 2022 at 3:07 PM ^
You are correct that this has been decades in the making. So what is Brad Holmes supposed to do about that? Keep Hock and either overpay him or let him walk? The alternative is that he gets what he cans and starts over with pieces he wants. He's been entrusted to build a team out of the crap he inherited from others. What he's done so far is, essentially, collect pawns for future use (draft picks, cap space, young up&comers, staff). Next year he all that coming due and we'll see what he can do with it. Will he jump onto the pile of SOL Mgmt, or bulldoze his own path?
Not very different from the mess the Yzerman inherited. We've given him a few years to sort it out before judging him. Lets give Brad some time, too. He's already proven better than Quinn - let it play out.
November 1st, 2022 at 5:18 PM ^
First off, lets not hold up the Bears as a model of Front office skill. In terms of gathering talent they are more or less in the same boat we are.
Secondly, while he may not be a plus blocker (hasn't needed to be really with the Oline we've assembled) he's been, to my eyes, a damn good weapon in the receiving game on an offense that needs to score points to win. This trade, to me, takes a spot we had settled and now makes it a position of need when we are already a team with a bunch of spots where we need talent.
Watch the Lions draft a mediocre tight end with that 2nd round pick now.
November 1st, 2022 at 3:08 PM ^
That's the nature of all NFL trades. Very, very few players bring back better draft picks than the one that was used to pick them. This is not something to fault the Lions over.
November 1st, 2022 at 3:24 PM ^
The thing is, a spent 1st round draft pick is for 4 years (5th optional). Hock was a pro bowler under Stafford. The Lions have gotten 3.5/5 years of out of him, so it doesn't even make sense to compare his remaining 1.5 year value (2nd round pick) vs his initial value.
And the problem isn't that Hock was a bust, it's that the Lions don't need an expensive TE who they don't feature prominently in the passing game. His pro bowl year contractually makes him more expensive, and he's just not worth it, especially right now with the state of the defense.
All of that said, it shows why drafting a TE 8th was dumb. He pans out pretty well and then you don't even want to resign him.
November 2nd, 2022 at 3:48 PM ^
Lots of great TEs in the league getting used quite a lot (see KC and SF for example). Us not using our TE is an offensive design issue not at lack of talent at the position issue. We certainly could have used him more/more effectively if we had wanted/tried to. I agree taking a TE at 8 is probably not wise but if you hit on a pick (especially in the top 10) I don't understand why you trade that player away.
November 1st, 2022 at 4:30 PM ^
That looks reasonable if Hockenson had underperformed. However has performed really well.
November 1st, 2022 at 8:03 PM ^
Had to do it as TJ wasn't worth what he was going to want to get paid. Also this goes back to the dumba$$ moves MP and BQ made. First off you don't draft a TE #8 that was the first mistake. Also TJ just wasn't cutting it. The guy we drafted in the 5th round is more athletic and said to be as good of a blocker as TJ which is just avg at best. So you use Mitchell a guy who makes probably 1 million or less a year and get the same production as TJ and develop him to get better so next year he takes over TJs spot and excels.
November 1st, 2022 at 3:11 PM ^
Lions own 5 of the first 65 picks.
The Lions GM is not the Red Wings GM.
November 1st, 2022 at 4:03 PM ^
The Lions will certainly draft 3 WRs, a TE, and a long snapper.
November 1st, 2022 at 1:47 PM ^
Scientists have discovered exactly zero difference between primates brains and the brains of people who go to Ford Field to attend Lions games.
November 1st, 2022 at 2:18 PM ^
i don't get it
...
....
.....
oh wait
HEY
November 1st, 2022 at 2:28 PM ^
....as well as the people who own and manage the Detroit lie-downs!
November 1st, 2022 at 3:09 PM ^
I moved to click the down-thumb... But I can't pull the trigger! Dammit!
November 1st, 2022 at 3:10 PM ^
You know that humans are primates right?
November 1st, 2022 at 3:40 PM ^
Guess that would explain the reason why fans go to watch perennial losers.
November 1st, 2022 at 4:07 PM ^
When your jokes are tautologies, nobody can pick them apart.
November 1st, 2022 at 1:47 PM ^
Wow, despite the huge demand, used Fords are going for a fraction of original MSRP.
November 1st, 2022 at 1:48 PM ^
I am in my late 40s. I have wanted my entire life to be a pro football fan. I have never become one, because of the Detroit Lions. The same was true for my father, FYI. Can you imagine having a franchise so bad that it has a six-decade, multi-generational effect on families???
November 1st, 2022 at 1:56 PM ^
I never developed the emotional attachment to the NFL the way I do to college for the same reason.
I will say this however, if someone is just a football fan in general, I can see why the NFL is far more popular than college because most games are actually competitive. Even with the top teams, most games come down to the final one or two possessions, whereas the top college teams might only have 2 or 3 games like that all year.
November 1st, 2022 at 3:12 PM ^
The NFL certainly has more overall talent, speed, and complexity on the field. But they don't play with the same passion and the crowd enthusiasm is terrible. The game day atmosphere is also all but non-existent.
Gimme the electricity of the college game all day long!
November 1st, 2022 at 3:13 PM ^
I never developed the emotional attachment to the NFL the way I do to college for the same reason.
Me three
When I travel for work football inevitably comes up in casual conversation. Usually a client asks me who is my team?
I respond that I follow college mostly because where I grew up we didn't have pro football.
So then they say who is your team?
I say Michigan.
...and when they half way get, "wait a seco..." out of their mouth, the lightbulb above their head clicks on.
November 1st, 2022 at 2:13 PM ^
We'll always have the Barry Sanders years, and that one time they got to the NFC championship.
I still listen to them on the radio and maybe watch a little on TV, but I always know they'll disappoint in some way.
November 1st, 2022 at 3:01 PM ^
I will always watch the first few games of the season hoping things will be different. But by the time they get to 1-4 I'm done for the year.
November 1st, 2022 at 7:06 PM ^
I can imagne it and I have lived it - just like you, but hey, my gramps was so disillusioned that he gave me and my brother his season tix in 91 (or 92?) when they went to the NFC championship game...so that was as good as it EVER got since '57...saw 6 of those 8 home games...of course that bandwagon gramps went to the playoff game though...he was a great man btw God Rest his soul - oh and he died in 2003 and NEVER saw his beloved Red Sox win a World Series in his lifetime...bummer for him
November 1st, 2022 at 1:48 PM ^
I know the OSU QB history....but give me Stroud as the 1st overall pick if we're there in April. OSU rarely(if ever) loses because of Stroud and his stats back this up. Wish he were at a different school, but the Lions need him.
November 1st, 2022 at 1:54 PM ^
Sweet Jesus, no. The same thing has been said about pretty much every OSU QB in recent memory.
November 1st, 2022 at 1:56 PM ^
His literal only loses since being a starter:
1) Michigan(😁) 394 yards, 2 tds
2) Oregon 484 yards, 3 tds, 1 int
It is a no-brainer. We need a stud QB and he checks the boxes.
November 1st, 2022 at 1:59 PM ^
Justin Fields checked the boxes too. It’s easy to look good when you have WRs like OSU.
November 1st, 2022 at 2:01 PM ^
Fields actually played really poorly against Alabama. Stroud is way more efficient than any other OSU QB. It is a function of what is best for the Lions, and clearly it is Stroud. Young is smaller than Kyler Murray and Levis is way too unproven. Hooker is way too old. No brainer.
November 1st, 2022 at 2:04 PM ^
No brainer, as in you have no brain if you pick an OSU QB in the first round. And Young is at least two inches taller than Murray.
November 1st, 2022 at 2:07 PM ^
I have to pick what is best for the Lions. Everyone needs to grow up once players get to the NFL kiddo.
You'd have passed on Chase Young if he was there at 3 a few years back? Bryce Young is my second choice(don't want Levis or Hooker).
November 1st, 2022 at 2:13 PM ^
There are a ton of OSU players I would’ve loved to see the Lions take over the years. Just not a QB. The historical proof is in the pudding there.
OSU receivers excel in the NFL. The QBs do not. It’s not hard to decipher.
November 1st, 2022 at 2:22 PM ^
It is an extremely small sample size, and also more irrelevant to what Stroud actually offers. If not the Lions, I expect him to excel for another team and you can see that then. I want what is best for the Lions and it seems obvious that Stroud creates that.
November 1st, 2022 at 2:37 PM ^
Per osu defensive coaches Stroud is uber talented, but lacks any leadership skills. They often go 12D on 11O to give him more of a challenge. Don't know if the talent is enough for the Lions to take especially without a WR room that is better than anyone they play even without his #1 this year in JSN. Dude is accurate. He could be good behind that o-line with Williams and St Brown. Not a fan of another non-leader type for QB1 though.
November 1st, 2022 at 3:27 PM ^
It is an extremely small sample size
How so?
- Art Schlichter, 1st round, #4 overall. 1,006 yards, 3 TDs, 11 INTs
- Troy Smith, 5th round, 1,734 career passing yards.
- Craig Krenzel, 5th round, 718 career passing yards.
- Terrelle Pryor, 3rd round, 1,994 career passing yards.
- Bobby Hoying, 3rd round, 2,544 career passing yards.
- Joe Germaine, 4th round, 136 career passing yards.
- Mike Tomczak, UFA, 42-31, 16,079 career passing yards. Nice.
- Tom Tupa, 3rd round, 3,340 career passing yards.
- Kent Graham, 8th(?) round, 7,801 career passing yards.
- Cardale Jones, 4th round, 96 yards and 1 INT.
- Dwyane Haskins, 1st round, 2,804 career passing yards.
You have an interesting definition of small sample size.