OT: Harvard Bans Team Captains From Greek Life
http://www.thecrimson.com/article/2016/5/6/college-sanctions-clubs-gree…
Although the fraternities, sororities, and final clubs are not formally recognized by the College, they play an unmistakable and growing role in student life, in many cases enacting forms of privilege and exclusion at odds with our deepest values
-Harvard
I like Canadians. Except when I'm coming home from work and they won't get out of the left lane. Fuckers
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except when their country is on fire
One of the most exclusive universities in the world has a problem with privilege and exclusion? Whatever.
As usual.
All I will say is that I've never seen the comment section on a Harvard Crimson article devolve into a slightly more upscale version of MLive in some instances that quickly. Whatever your opinion of what Harvard is doing here, some of the comments are perhaps a product of one or two of the issues in the campus culture they seem to be attempting to address with this policy, assuming some of those people are or were in fact Harvard students.
Parts of that read like an onion article
Interesting that one of the most privileged, exclusive universities on the planet has a problem with others promoting privilege and exclusion.
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want to go to harvard. but once they get there, they are at a disadvantage to the best of the rich, who may not be there based on merit alone.
If they're there to play school, they're at a disadvantage how, exactly?
there's no cardale jones walking around harvard...
They are there to go to school. In what way are they at a disadvantage to wealthy students who are not attending based on merit?
And the best of the best who want to go to Harvard are at a disadvantage to those who are there because of affirmative action or athletics and definitely aren't there on merit alone.
three of my buddies went to great schools (harvard, stanford, chicago) and i was butthurt for a little while because their academics were not really on the same level as mine. but, at the end of the day, they were all great athletes in their respective sports, with pretty good academics. i'm not really going to get upset at well-rounded scholars going to the top schools.
Athletes bother me less at the Ivies, since they are most likely pretty smart. It's the affirmative action that really bothers me.
that the brightest minority students in the country are just as smart as my three buddies that got into those schools because of athletics.
Eh, I'm going to respectfully disagree with you on the basis the issue is much more complex than that. But, this is a sports blog, and a political debate is not proper in this setting.
So how about Michigan softball!? Harbaugh!?
Well played. Maybe we can have nice things.
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HARBAUGH!
That's not how affirmative action works...
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Jim Crow bother me..
Yeah these civil rights laws really have been a problem for us poor white folk.
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I'm not sure if your implying something about students who get into Ivies through athletics vs through affirmative action. Could you explain?
But for affirmative-action they would hardly be any white kids at Harvard. It would look more like Caltech, which is the lone highly selective institution in the US that has no affirmative-action.
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According to wikipedia, white students are about 1/3 of Caltech. That's not 'hardly any.'
Harvard undergrads are 46% Caucasian. Caltech undergrads are 28% Caucasian. I would call that a pretty significant difference.
Caltech is one of the few universities with race-blind admissions. MIT is another that weighs race much less in their admissions process. And both those universities have around double the percentage of Asian undergraduate students compared to Harvard and other Ivies. Caltech is one of the few (if only) private universities in the country where Asian undergrads outnumber Caucasians. MIT has almost reached that point now as well.
Studies have shown that an Asian student has to score 200 points higher than a African-American student and around 100 points higher than a Caucasian student on the SAT (with a similar pattern with respect to H.S. grades as well) to gain admission due to race quotas. This was actually part of an interesting essay on race on campus in this weekend's WSJ:
http://www.wsj.com/articles/hard-truths-about-race-on-campus-1462544543
Oh, I'm not arguing that. I am well aware of the fact that race quotas are buoying white, black, and other numbers at the expense of Asian numbers. Sorry if it sounded like I was arguing against that. I was just pointing out that it wasn't 'hardly any.' Students in grad school - the new college, let's be honest - are nearly 40% at Caltech according to wikipedia. But yeah, at other places, race-based admissions standards are crushing to Asian students. I've been saying for decades - along with many, many other people - that demanding race quotas in college admissions is not in general a good strategy for minorities because quotas based on the general population by definition favor the majority.
lol anyone at harvard is pretty smart.
gluck with the banhammer
As it turns out, athletes tend to do worse than the underrepresented minorities at academics.
I see you came to terms with this. I appreciate people with talent, but it does not mean I will be able to accept that well rounded scholars are better than someone who is really good at academics. There lies the inequality and I can move on from it. Doesn't mean I have to accept it. You are a bigger person.
"merit alone." That's a valuable concept.
yeah good point, most of those jocks are there at drastically lower credentials than everyone else. So just by taking up space at harvard they're denying opportunities to a couple hundred others, whether in a fraternity or not
the same can be said about UM too, but hard work alone can usually gain admission here, even from poor communities. Harvard is about who you know and the resources you have
There will never be a level playing field in life. And the rich aren't the only people at Harvard who may not be there based on merit alone.
Lmao that's life get used to it? And the people who are fighting it are the pussies?
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Don't you see the hypocrisy in the statement about "merit?" On one hand, these rich students have advantages and are not there based on merit alone. But you ignore the other hand where African-American and Hispanic students have admission advantages and some of them are also not there based on merit alone either. Aren't affirmative action and race quotas advantages as well? Do the "best of the best" even get into Harvard in an equitable manner in the first place? And consider the exclusive club of being a Harvard alum--the irony the OP was talking about. Putting Harvard on your resume confers graduate school and job applicants the same advantages without respect to merit that these fraternities and exclusive clubs offer.
Like I posted above, Asian students have to score 200 points higher on their SAT with a similar pattern in high school grades compared to African-Americans and 100 points higher than Caucasians. I am not arguing against affirmative action but making the point there are always going to be inequities in the system. When you stack the deck for one group, there is usually another group that suffers, and often merit is never in the equation.
Harvard would argue that everyone has an opportunity to be admitted. It's just that 90% blow it by 2nd semester of 9th grade. Whereas the fraternities deny opportunity to everyone
Of course, coming from a town of 700 that didn't even offer math beyond 1 semester of trig, science beyond chemistry, or any language beyond 2 semesters, or hell even SAT prep, and i had never heard of SAT II, i know harvard's claims to meritocracy are pure BS
I prefer Yale.
Lame. I don't care about fraternities but there is no need to change the rules like this. More feel good crap done to appease the SJWs who are lost iff they can't control everyone's lives and force their world view on everyone. The hyper sensitive control freaks strike again.
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The problem Harvard is attempting to address is real. It's been well-documented that the social connections that students gain through Greek organizations and other exclusive clubs at elite universities tend to facilitate their access to high paying jobs in finance, law, and other lucrative industries much more than grades or other merit-based factors. Because Greek houses and the like tend to be racially and culturally homogenous, this phenomenon reproduces privilege and inequality. I'm not sure Harvard's solution will work, but I appreciate that they are trying something.
Unlike the culturally and racially homogenous Harvard student body at large whose social connections facilitate access to privileged jobs???
That's the hypocrisy in all this...that Harvard feels it's appropriate to draw the line wherever it feels while willfully ignoring the larger point
I guess I am viewing this as a positive first step.
Inequality is everywhere, including sports. Harvard gets to decide what is inequality? It is not like only the brightest kids or the kids with special talent go to Harvard. Unless the special talent is being rich. Harvard is an exclusive club and they are mad about another exclusive club within their exclusive club. I respect Harvard, but not on this matter.
There are some students who get into Harvard because they are brilliant and hard-working. They do well in school once there. But when they graduate and look for jobs, they lose out to better-connected classmates. I suppose Harvard could just say, "oh well, that's life," and not try to do anything about it. But evidently Harvard thinks it's a problem they should address, and I happen to agree.
That happens at all schools. The sell of getting students to join there alumni association upon graduation is about positioning yourself for the future.
so why not just ban any student there from joining, or not admitting into its grad programs anyone who was in a frat - expulsions all around like an adult version of dead poet's society
problem with some of those careers you mention is trying to control for personality factors. A lawyer for instance might be more outgoing on average and the extroverted tend to join frats
This ain't going to change a damn thing. It is simply feel good crap as I stated because the SJW's love saying "they did something" even if it doesn't work and pisses everyone off and at times has the opposite or unintended effect. Of course they think they know what's good for us more than we know what's good for ourselves so what do you expect?
I wonder whether this will effectively annihilate Harvard's Greek instititions or simply drive them underground.
nails it. End of story for me.
It's a ridiculous rule, but it'll annihilate team captains at Harvard way before it annihilates the fraternities.
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It's not just team captains--it's all kinds of student leadership positions.
I wonder if minority specific or gender specific student groups are also being eliminated.