OT: GM offers buyouts to majority of salaried workers
Some interesting conversation on the US Treasury Direct thread below re: financial planning in this weird economic environment, and also saw that GM offered buyouts to a lot of folks this week.
Any GM workers on here taking the buyout? Hopefully those retirements open up opportunties (finally) for the younger generation. My guess is that not many folks take the buyouts given the economic headwinds.
Curious to know what everyone on this board is doing in terms of career and saving/financial planning right now. Hunkering down and waiting it out? Doing the same thing you've always done in terms of job and retirement saving? Thinking it'll get better and buying a lot?
I was open to switching jobs but am absolutely not doing that now. Pretty secure gig (famous last words) and I'm not gonna move somewhere where I'm the new hire with no relationships. Also have no idea what to do financially since holding cash is a bad idea but stocks are so volatile. Probably just buy t-bills and leave 401k as is.
Volatility causing anxiety? T-Bills my friend. May not keep up with inflation but as stable as it gets. If the feds were ever to default on them we would all in some deep shit together.
Series i federal government bonds protect against inflation. There's no secondary market, but they're a safe variable rate hedge against inflation and also still offer a fixed rate of interest. https://www.treasurydirect.gov/savings-bonds/i-bonds/
March 11th, 2023 at 10:10 PM ^
My financial advisor, the Wu Tang, says to diversify ya bonds, bitch.
March 11th, 2023 at 10:31 PM ^
that is not what they said lol
March 11th, 2023 at 10:53 PM ^
Yep, but I like it here and don't want to visit Bolivia . . . or worse.
Guns and gold.
Now is a good time to buy silver.
Not a GM employee, but we offered early retirement for the first time in 5 years (essentially a buy out for those over 55). I was surprised by the number of takers. Definitely opening opportunities for younger folks.
Does anyone actually think businesses are doing this to hire younger people?
If by younger you mean cheaper, then yes.
not necessarily hire; but it creates growth opportunities for folks in lower parts of the pyramid.
Exactly. I'm not talking about the reason WHY they are doing it, just the result that my generation will benefit. There's 3 openings above me now that normally would not be open.
I hope it yields great success and personal growth for you Fan21
Are they actually hiring for those openings? Some openings are never filled.
Some of the reports I've seen is that the Millenials are really getting screwed. They aren't getting the opportunities previous generations have had (and it wasn't that great for us Gen-Xers either), especially with prospects for home ownership.
Millenials have also suffered with the layoffs. I've seen it in person and it's really sad thing to witness.
March 12th, 2023 at 10:22 PM ^
Slow to respond here, but yes all 3 above me have reqs posted internally. They are really trying to fill them internally.
Unfortunately for me, there is a huge push to get more female managers and all 3 roles are being vacated by outbound females so I suspect my odds are low.
In the south, but both my parents were salaried employees at Toyota for years and took early retirements. My dad used his to start his own business doing the same thing he did before at the same factory making twice as much.
I spent over 20 years working as a salaried employee at GM. Most toxic and political work culture. I survived the last salaried purge of 2018-19. It was horrible watching co-workers being escorted out of the building, many in tears. Most of which had spent decades as faithful employees only to be tossed out like trash. I left GM in 2020 and went to another OEM. It was the best decision of my working career. Went from a toxic dead end environment to getting two promotions in less than 3 years. Goes to show there is light at the end of a dark tunnel.
Out of curiosity, why would you work in a place you hated for 20 years if you had a marketable skill which your life after GM suggests that you have?
The pensions' early retirement penalty?
Meet a girl, get married, have kids, go to school at night in Ann Arbor MBA program (on GM program). Work your way through engineering, manufacturing, purchasing, logistics, and corporate strategy, car, truck, Cadillac, and HQ before you decide it is best to move on. I don't know about 20 years but 13 can go by while you try to figure it out.
Your career is a journey that intersects with your family. And yes it can take time to figure out what you want.
Sometimes people get comfortable, understand the place, and don't think it's different or can be better somewhere else. Sometimes, you just have to move to see what's out there...
I'm glad you asked this. There are multiple reasons, but probably the biggest reasons were 1) When I started at GM I had just started my family and me and my wife decided she would leave her job and stay at home to raise our kids so it was important to have stable income and benefits. 2) When you get a job at GM as a salaried employee within a couple years of graduating college, you become brainwashed to believing that working for another company would be a step down. I mean "I work for GM!" 3) Crash of 2008 and its after effects made it vital to maintain stable employment as job prospects were pretty slim for several years thereafter. I'm much happier where I'm at now. I work in emerging technology, managing a great team of people.
This question fits into a theory I started developing years ago while working on my MBA. Specifically, it was aimed at the company perspective of retention, but it is equally applicable to the employee making a decision to stay. When companies decide to retain (or fire for that matter) they tend to think in terms of black and white tangible issues like pay and level of benefits (ex. weeks of vacation) Many employees do the same thing (gee I am up to 5 weeks off a year, and I would go back to 2). But, and sorry if this sounds trite to anyone, there a a great many intangibles in play that can have a much bigger impact (some negative in value) than the size of the check. One that is leveraged both ways, and as mentioned by another poster, is the sense of pride, I WORK FOR GM. Some may scoff at that kind of identification, but I have seen it manifest itself very strongly. Another factor, and from the employee point of view is probably the most relevant, is fear of the unknown. Risk aversion runs deep in many people and they will stay with the tormenting devil they know so they don't have to face the devil behind door number 2.
The thing about the intangibles is that they are very fluid, and very difficult to "quantify" in relation to the tangibles. Fundamentally though, everyone's total compensation is a stack consisting of both. Once the stack on the outside opportunity gets bigger than the one you have, the employee leaves (think about the factors that have to occur to reduce the impact of the risk aversion for that to happen).
I think one thing that is happening in todays work environment is stories of people going to new challenges more routinely is demonstrating to more and more people how fluid working really can be, reducing the fear or change.
In addition, many of the more experienced people are finding their market value and splitting. It is beginning to show dramatically where I work in an engineering company where in my department of 180 people (I work for a very large corporation) fully 80% have less than 5 years witht he company. While trying not to sound too ageist, this is crippling our ability to resolve problems as tribal memory is disappearing and experience in recognizing paths forward become less available.
Fascinating read, genuinely. But you lost me in your last paragraph about how tribal memory disappearing is a detriment to problem solving. Maybe I read it wrong.
March 12th, 2023 at 10:23 AM ^
Please allow me to chime here and maybe phrase it slightly different but validate the point. When it comes to solving issues / problems, it is very important to get many points of view. And the general sense is that "fresh eyes" will bring about "fresh ideas" is a very good thing. This is very true. To a point, that is correct, it is very valuable for new ideas, new thoughts, challenge the norm.
But what gets glossed over too often is the most valuable intangible trait(s) that can help companies, experience and wisdom. Too often, this gets tied to "stubborness" and "stuck in the 'old ways'. When I was younger I too had this impression. But as I grew through my career, I began to understand and appreciate the value of experience and wisdom (tribal knowledge). There have been many instances over my 35+ years where the "wise old expert" comes in and determines the actual root cause to a situation (particularly the more complex the issue).
Now this is not an either/or circumstance. There is a blend. Just as I have meet several "wise and experience" people with a wealth of tribal knowledge, I have also ran into the stubborn, fixed in their way people. What I have found is that the ones that are able to adjust to the changing of time/culture while garnering their experience and gaining wisdom are the ones that you keep around. These are the people with the wealth of "tribal knowledge". Too often the fresh idea crowd will come up with what they believe is a great idea, only for the experience person to point out that "congratulations, you have re-created the wheel". This is a phrase that gets used when an idea comes out, yet the experienced person with the "Tribal Knowledge" points out that was already been done, and why it is only partial/short term solution then builds upon this to bring about a better solution.
From personal experience I will tell you that when I first started working paper, pencil, and rulers were the norm when solving issues. Computers consisted of a handful green monochrome screens that hooked up to a central hard drive that was the size of a large box. The internet did not exist, and communication was done strictly by picking up the phone and actually talking to people and hand written notes were done to document anything. To make it through my career, keeping up with technology was vital. Those who did not, fell to the way side as the "stuck in the old ways". Those who adapted to the evolving business and technology thrived. Even today, I am being asked to evolve in my job, learn new application(s), new techniques. For those who do evolve, they gain a tremendous amount of experience.
That experience is invaluable as there has been multiple times when an issue comes up, said experience significantly helps bring about a better solution, normally with a twist coming from fresh ideas.
Tribal knowledge is very critical sunk cost when a company does a full sweep of buyout, but that is the cost of making a change. Buyouts are done for 1 reason and 1 reason only. For the financial books. Some positions may remain, some will disappear, but the cutting of work force is done solely for cost cutting reasons. And yes, the lost of tribal knowledge is a "sunk cost" that companies face when they do this. They are aware of this and usually address it in 1 of 2 ways. One is to selectively choose who they would want to keep (may even offer and better financial package to encourage them to stay). Secondly, is to bite the bullet and clear house but have some pre-selected individual(s) ready to be promoted into selected open positions and challenge them to become the next wise and experienced person and ride out the time for growth. A combination of 1 and 2 is usually the attempted solution.
Thank you for the thorough explanation. I had not heard of "tribal knowledge" and it's definition. I had connected it to tribalism, which caused my confusion.
M_Born, thanks for the expansion on my thinking, I will need to incorporate in the future. Your point about not being an either/or condition is particularly valid.
My dad took early retirement from Ford right before his division (Visteon) got spun off. He was pretty open-minded as I considered where to target for employment after graduation, but the one piece of advice he had for me was to steer clear of the Big Three at all costs.
And yet I remember getting into fight on here with some poster who insisted I wasn't a "true-Michigander" because I drive a Honda instead of a Ford/GM/whatever the hell Chrysler calls itself these days. SMH...
maybe they doubted your credentials because your Honda was assembled in Marysville, Ohio?
/s
Hah, maybe. Where my wife works there are many people who have spouses/family members who work for the Big 3 and occasionally give her a hard time for driving a Honda. She reminds them that her Honda has a bigger percentage of parts made in the US than most of the Big 3 models.
March 12th, 2023 at 11:46 AM ^
Tesla is the most American of cars with design, parts and US assembly.
As someone who got an engineering degree from Michigan and assumed as a 19 year old that the big 3 was a savior for me, I heard stories from co-ops and interns that burst that bubble. Went into high tech manufacturing out west and never looked back. I still have reverence for American auto makers, but as soon as everyone in SE Michigan realizes they are just big international corporations that care as little about their employees as any other, the better.
This sounds a lot like when I was in advertising in Chicago in the 90's. I took a job at Leo Burnett, thinking it was one of the great big agencies. Boy, was I wrong. I had come from another big agency that felt a lot more personal. Burnett was like a factory where the political rule book was 1000 pages long. It was also like a dinosaur with an ivory tower mentality -- no one does it better than us, even though we're behind most other agencies in the product that we put out. There were a few good accounts, but the rest were stuck in the '60s. There were also a lot of layoffs while I was there, and I got it in the 3rd round. I then went freelance and it made my work life so much better. Not only did I make a lot more money but I didn't have to worry about the politics or whether I was getting the bigger office with the window or the promotion. I was just there to do the work and get paid. They didn't have to care about me, they just needed to pay me. It's a much simpler relationship.
March 11th, 2023 at 11:24 PM ^
Burnett sounds a lot like GM. Ivory tower mentality even though they went bankrupt, no one did it better than them. Even in 2008 when the grass at the Milford Proving Grounds was knee high because they couldn't afford to pay to have it cut, no one did it better.
I worked at Burnett in the early 2000's out of Detroit but also frequented Chicago, and concur
March 12th, 2023 at 10:14 PM ^
Leo Burnett: "It's a great place to work if your parents can afford to send you."
March 13th, 2023 at 12:09 AM ^
People don't think that? Having grown up in the Flint area, I don't know how people think GM is some kind of local business that cares about the community.
What is American car anymore? Hell most of the big three build vehicles outside the country and what they build inside the country they import large amount of foreign parts. Toyota and Honda many times by percentage are more American then the big three.
Check out the American automotive labeling act. It’s very interesting and shows you just how American all cars are
When any of the big 3 offers the technology, safety, mileage and dependability of a Honda engine then I’ll consider buying domestic. I don’t think that day is coming any time soon.
Over the years we've bought 6 Hondas, and only once have been disappointed. But even that one disappointment (a CRV AWD) when we traded it in to the dealer during a purchase they informed us we now hold the record for mileage on a trade-in for that model.
March 11th, 2023 at 10:58 PM ^
As a current GM employee, I couldn't disagree more with this statement more. It's a fantastic place to work. Sounds like you didn't make the best of it.
Also I can absolutely confirm that is not how 2018-2019 went down. No one was escorted out "in tears" or anything of that nature. What you're saying is a complete exaggeration.
March 11th, 2023 at 11:33 PM ^
Son, don't tell me what I saw was an exaggeration. I could provide names but I wouldn't stoop to the level of your employer. Good luck. I hope you survive the upcoming purge, because you an I both know that involentary separations are coming next. But I'm certain you'll do just fine as it sounds like you've made the most of your brown nosed opportunities.
Show me on the doll where GM touched you. Sorry, I'll get off your lawn.
The stories about the big 3 that get posted here couldn’t be further from reality. It’s mostly stuff recycled from the 80s through family members. Of course jobs are going to change as the industry goes through a major transformation. The cost structure has to change to fit the new reality.
March 12th, 2023 at 10:47 AM ^
Something that most people have to come to terms with is that the Automotive industry (ALL OEMS, not just the Big3) are currently going through a seismic shift in how a car is built. Over the next 5-7 years, like it or not, electrical vehicles will become the norm. Building an electrical vehicle is much different than building an ICE vehicle (ICE = Internal Combustible Engine).
People who work on engines, transmission, exhaust are disciplines that will no longer be needed / focal points of the industry.
As I just posted earlier in this tread, those who adapt and adjust move on. Those who are either A) close to retirement, B) Unwilling to adapt will be offered buyout. Those who don't...well then next step is not easy or fun. On the flip side, all OEMs are looking to hire and evolve in computer programming technology, and battery power management. These are the new catch phrases as ALL OEMs are working on while introducing new products over the next 3-5 years with the latest and greatest electrical features.
Just as the initial Toyota Prius is now a dinosaur in electrical cars, today Ford Lightening and Chevy Silverado / Hummer will look like antiques come 2030.
So ALL OEMs are going through a transition in their workforce to adapt to the new consumer climate. The ones that can change and adapt the best will be the ones that excel going forward. Also for every OEM out there, there are twice as many start up companies trying to get a foothold in the electrical vehicle market. The competition for automobiles will get more intense which in the end is good for the consumer as only the best products will thrive...
Extremely well said. You're spot on.
I couldn't agree more with you
Great post - hoping the MGoCommunity can successfully weather this storm. Dollar cost-averaging into index funds is a tried and true strategy that optimizes long-term earnings. When things go down, and potentially way down, don’t sell in fear, and don’t miss the opportunity to buy deeply discounted stocks.