OT: deferring college enrollment?
Are any parent's thinking about having their HS senior defer enrollment to college next year? Would it be better to wait a year to see what happens? Travel might not be a possibility for a traditional gap year. And work might not be available for an 18 year old. Just curios if anyone is considering this. I have a HS student, but he's not a senior.
My niece lives in Ann Arbor and was accepted to UofM. I’m not sure what she or her parents are going to do. I know my brother was questioning Purdue’s announcement this week that they are planning for students to come back in the fall.
My daughter was accepted to Northwestern for this fall... my wife and I were on a Zoom call last night, hosted by NU’s president Morton Shapiro, for incoming freshmen.
The first topic was how covid would affect startup this fall, and all President Shapiro said was Purdue was planning on starting on-time and that NU was fortunate to be on the quarter system that gave it a five-week later start date, and would monitor Purdue’s progress.
I get that this is an unprecedented situation, and was impressed with President Shapiro otherwise, but that’s all you got? You’ll monitor another B1G school and decide one, two or three weeks prior to the start date??
Morton Shaprio sounds like the perfect name for the NU president.
I've mentioned before that I'm faculty at a big name R1 (humble brag FTMFW). Based on what I'm hearing internally, I (also as a parent) wouldn't be willing to spend $50K on what it's looking like we're going to be able to deliver in the Fall.
I'm not sure how my university will handle it. Assuming we stick with remote learning, the options are: full price, reduced price, or free. I'd expect more clarity going into summer.
and what we've been hearing is big discounts to entice the kids back to campus.
can you give us a hint what 'R1' and also what 'FTMFW' means....?
R1 has to do with the research level of the university, so in that case it's a high-level research school.
FTMFW = for the mofo-ing win
R1 = CMU? NTCMU
R1s are tier 1 research Us - Ivy + B10 and the like
R1s are the top tier research universities. Our beloved Maize and Blue being among them.
FTMFW is the colorful version of FTW (for the win).
I haven't heard of any deep discounts (yet), but I'm okay with sending my kid to school next year, if for no other reason than his sanity. The faculty, staff, and members of the surrounding community are at greater risk than the 17-23 year olds (based on what we know so far).
I'd certainly prefer to know that there is a clear treatment or that we have the antibodies and they persist, but 4 months is also a ways off, so lots of time to learn how to adapt and be in public thoughtfully.
I think the NFL's approach is right - use this time to plan for optionality and make the the best call among all options at the last possible moment.
My son just finished his junior year. We have six+ scenarios, but it really depends on knowing something about the Fall by May 15. (And something about his summer internship which may or may not happen.)
FWIW, online out of state is not worth the price. If he were an incoming freshman, I would seriously consider a gap year. As it is, we are plotting the best value route to graduate and hopefully find a job on the other end.
R1= Juke Move
I work at a non-Harvard Ivy.
slummin' it eh? sorry to hear it.
You mean a non-Michigan of the East Ivy?
I also am R1 faculty and our department is making plans to not teach in person again until at least January. Best case scenario, we are able to do it sooner, but that looks unlikely with each passing day.
We have already heard from some students that they will not be returning in Fall regardless of in-person or not.
I suspect that a critical mass of schools are going to go that way and then they all will need to. Supposedly all the Ivy provosts are getting together to come to a joint decision soon.
Out of curiosity, what metrics are universities looking at to decide what to do in the Fall? College-age student risk from coronavirus is almost non-existent. Out of all the >20K deaths in Italy, only 2 were under 20 yrs old. Switzerland and Korea had no deaths under 27. I live in Santa Clara county - where it was recently discovered was where the first US cv death occurred - and there have been no deaths for anyone under 30. Universities would seem to be among the safest places to be so long as professors and administrators take necessary precautions for themselves. So I guess I’m wondering what data they’d need to see to feel comfortable
I don’t think there are metrics. My sense, talking to college dean level people, is that the fear is students going away, getting infected, coming back, and then living in close quarters creating a huge explosion of cases.
As I understand it, this is why so many schools stopped at spring break - they simply didn’t want the kids bringing it back.
no University is equipped to take care of 10,000 sick college kids - even if none of them die.
April 23rd, 2020 at 11:14 PM ^
For the most part...they won't need to take care of sick students. The hospitalization rate is also very low.
I would be much less concerned about the health of the students and more concerned about transmission to the staff.
i can't believe this post hasn't drawn scorn and ridicule and a legion of downvotes. not from me, but from the pessimist army that frequently patrols this area.
if true, very good news.
Spending $50k on one year of college is a straight up waste.
I'm a faculty member at a Big10 school. I would not send my kid far away next year. Likelihood this flares up and shuts everything down again is high.
I would pay attention to whether or not they plan to be residential next year. If they plan to be remote, defer to next fall if you are a new student. If you are a current student, I would enroll as normal, but not sign any housing contract. You can always unenroll closer to the fall.
I heard today that our administration is supposed to make some announcement on May 15. All signs look like we will be remote in the fall.
To fill in the time, I would start looking at non-degree options at a nearby community college or another regional school as a backup. Alternately, if the gov creates some Americorps-like contact tracing program, it could be a great experience for a kid in a gap year.
Weird that your school mentioned May 15. That’s the date that’s floating around here internally. I think there must be a lot of high level coordination between major universities.
I teach at a small liberal arts college in the northeast. I haven't heard the same rumblings about going remote in the fall, though the administration was pretty upfront that we'll have to consider many options depending on how things unfold. I wonder if schools with smaller enrollments are in a better position to hold in-person classes? Or maybe that's just wishful thinking--I'm pretty worried about our enrollments in the fall if we switch to remote, and we are a tuition-driven institution. We also draw heavily from the region (say, 200 mile radius), so maybe that will help people's comfort about being on campus.
April 24th, 2020 at 12:22 AM ^
Big publics are basically thinking of the dorms as cruise ships that will inevitably cause another abrupt shutdown and possibly wipe out a chunk of their faculty.
Small privates, particularly those tuition-dependent, probably don't have the resources to go virtual as enrollment will not materialize. This crisis is literally a threat to their survival as they have little financial backstop and the enrollment picture is bleak over the next decade due to demographics.
Yes—I think that sums it up. I think my particular institution is in okay shape, but this is going to be very, very challenging.
Most faculty are on 10 month contracts (ending May 31), so they legally can't expect faculty to do major work over the summer. This would include major overhauls of the curriculum and class scheduling. May 15 gives everyone two weeks to respond to any decision.
Between what you have outlined, no work and no travel, I would think that if one could take online classes it would be better than just "hanging out" and doing little or nothing.
On a related front, my daughter was going to spend a month in LA this summer, shadowing doctors at hospitals. Since that's been cancelled, she's been looking around for online summer college classes. She's a junior in high school and she doesn't want to spend her summer staring at a computer screen but it's better than the alternative -- staring at tik tok's all day long.
We haven't considered waiting a year for our senior daughter at this point. Her situation is complicated some by the fact that she is supposed to play a college sport. Even absent the athletic angle, we probably still wouldn't be looking to go the defer a year route in the current environment. With limited options on what to fill the year with, it seems like the potential for that to become a truly lost year would be high.
Maybe a good option is taking online courses from a local school that is cheaper for a year. (As long as the credits will transfer to whichever school he/she plans to attend.)
Defer to next spring but spend this summer learning Hobo code as that might be more practical
Who the heck could afford a gap year?
I'll revise your question:
Who the heck WANTS to take a gap year right now? COVID is everywhere and you're no safer anywhere else in the world than you are here.
My kids are young so I don’t have to deal with this. Are you allowed to defer or would you have to reapply? Asking a freshman to do all online work for their first semester or more seems like a recipe for disaster for many kids. Especially since they aren’t learning as much as they should be during their senior year.
There are plenty of jobs out there for 18yr olds right now. Those should continue as people who previously had jobs are not going to want to come off unemployment for some of the lower paying jobs out there.
High school teachers are not teaching the same kinds of skills, nor do they have the experience teaching online, as college professors. The quality of an online college course can and should be much more than a high school teacher forced to teach state level tests and curriculum they aren’t experts in.
I’ve taught online courses for a decade—already had two of my courses as web courses prior to the pandemic.
If my sons were about to be first year college students, I’d have them do their first term courses at the local community college unless their 4-year school have strep online discounts. CCs offer affordable quality teaching with educators whose focus is student learning more than many, eh hem, R1 institutions where publish or perish is more a focus for many (not all) faculty. TAs may teach large intro classes at the R1, but PhDs from R1s or retired to mid career engineers from Boeing or Northrop Grumman May be teaching your physics classes at the local CC.
Many of our CC students go on to R1s in the region. I have a former student whose about to go to med-school once he graduates from Gonzaga this spring.
"High school teachers are not teaching the same kinds of skills, nor do they have the experience teaching online,"
Agreed.
My daughter is a HS freshman doing online school. We are trying to keep her on a schedule so M-F school is from 9-1 at the table on her Chromebook. She us usually finished with regular school on Monday, Tuesday at the latest. That includes taking the tests that she is supposed to take Friday.
To keep her focused and occupied I've turned her loose on Kahn Academy and SAT/ACT Prep.
You’re lucky.
Still planning on having my daughter go to Oregon State (can't afford out of state tuition)
But I am watching the situation closely honestly
If it were me, I'd wait until the last possible minute (i.e., when the 1st tuition payment is due) to make my decision. Unless, like some are hinting that there will be a discount. To much money at stake to settle with online courses.
Definitely wait it out and see. No schools have made a decision yet, and most aren't even close -- despite what some may say, the decision is still at least two months out. For what it's worth, Schlissel and others (like Dr. Fauci) have said they're cautiously optimistic that schools will return in the fall. It may look different than a normal semester, but it would still be worth it (in my opinion) to be on campus.
Also, Michigan has said they're committed to continue hiring students throughout the summer and fall for work-study and other jobs -- not sure about other universities, but I'm pretty sure there'll still be jobs available on campuses this fall.
My school turned all work study money into grant aid.
I was thinking about this too - I teach SRs in HS every year (AP courses) andmy oldest in an 8th grader.
If my kid was a SR right now, I'd have her defer till January and take 3-4 courses at the local CC.
I don't anticipate Us being open for F2F instruction this fall.
My wife and I grew up in the Detroit area and we each have two degrees from UM, but we now live in VA and have four kids who attend out of state public universities (two at UM). I have had all of my kids take a few lower-level general electives online over their summers at a Virginia community college in addition to their regular college classes because the economic disparity is significant.
As an example, my kids have taken three-credit classes at Michigan over the summer, and out of state tuition was over $6000. Meanwhile, tuition for a three-credit class at a community college is less than $500. Once you get into major-specific classes and other upper-level requirements, community college classes are not an option, but for picking up 15 to 30 general elective credits, it is a very compelling option financially.
Additionally, public universities make it easier to transfer community college credit than most private universities. Michigan, for example, has a transfer credit website that lists classes across the country that are "pre-approved".
https://www.ugadmiss.umich.edu/TCE/Public/CT_TCESearch.aspx
My two kids at Michigan picked community college classes from this website before enrolling in them, and Michigan accepted all the credits without question. My daughter is graduating from Michigan this semester, and she completed her undergraduate studies in 3 years thanks in part to the supplemental community college classes.
So - for parents who have high school seniors or freshmen in college (my youngest is finishing his freshman year at UC Berkeley online) AND are paying out of state or private tuition, there will be a difficult decision to make if their students' universities are online in the fall. Paying up to $2000 per credit hour for an online class at Michigan or UC Berkeley seems crazy economically when there is another option of paying a few hundred dollars per credit hour for classes that their current or future university will accept.
Best of luck
My sophomore daughter told me the other day she now wants to go to college in Canada.
Anybody done this? How easy is it to enroll across borders?
It is just like studying abroad other places. She isn’t going to get the basically free education a Canuck would get but you still might find it’s less than say, Hillsdale College or Kalamazoo.
they likely have SAT/ACT guidelines. I studied in Italy after college and U of Florence was $1500 per semester for foreigners in 2002
Student Visa into Canada needed, very, very limited financial aid for US citizens.
No good reason to consider this route.
Yes, as a Canadian citizen, very generous financial aid available, the Canadian healthcare/scholarship benefits don't apply to US citizens.
Where did this idea even come from.
Dual citizenship until I hit 18, Canada is not some perfect situation.
"Go to 'university' in Canada." ;) "college" in Canada refers to community colleges and trade schools.
I had a friend from NY that went to Canada for university for his freshman year before transferring to U-M and another good friend was from Canada but went to U-M. Both of them said their processes for enrolling over the border were relatively straight forward.
Tuition at a top Canadian university wouldn't be anymore expensive than say out-of-state U-M tuition. But living expenses would be a lot more expensive than AA in cities like Toronto, Montreal, and Vancouver.
If she actually wants to work in Canada after graduation and spend some time there, it's very easy for a student who graduates from a Canadian university to get a work permit there. Otherwise, she can go back to the US and get a job/go to grad school there
2023 UM Grad/my son just finished up his freshman year at U of M.
My long-time skepticism about online education - that it has been overhyped and wouldn't be as robust and meaningful as in-class education - has mostly been confirmed. It's just not the same as being in class...among other students...and with the opportunity to interact with the instructor. Most of the other parents with whom I've communicated feel the same way.
If Michigan's fall semester is online only, we might consider having him take a gap semester or year. The only complicating factor is that we signed a one-year lease at one of the high-rise buildings...and haven't scrutinized the lease enough to see if we have any recourse to get out of it.
Being in-state does make it a little bit easier to swallow online classes. We have also talked about letting him live in Ann Arbor even if fall semester is online. I can't imagine paying out-of-state tuition for an online education.