OSU's Mediocre Pass Rush(Is Larry Johnson just a good recruiter?)
I feel like this isn't getting enough attention....Michigan lost Hutchinson and Ojabo in the offseason, and the narrative around college football was that it would be a giant weakness for the 2022 year.
Yet, through 7 weeks, Michigan is tied for 4th in the country with 24 sacks(https://www.ncaa.com/stats/football/fbs/current/team/466).
Conversely, OSU is tied for 14th in the country with only 14 sacks. So Larry Johnson can make Chase Young or a Bosa brother a success, but he seems to struggle without those plug and play guys. 5-Star Zach Harrison has 0 sacks this season, 5-Star J.T. Tuimoloau has 0 sacks this season and 5-Star Jack Sawyer has 2 sacks this season. Looks like Larry Johnson is just a good recruiter since my grandma could have taken credit for Chase Young and Bosa brothers if she was a D-Line coach.
A quick photo of a 4-star that outperformed his ranking:
October 19th, 2022 at 2:01 PM ^
From the Athletic ranking of Defensive STOP Rate has
Michigan #1. Defensive Stop rate is % of Defensive series that end in punt, turnover, or turnover on downs. TA argues this a better measure than individual stats like sacks.
Current FBS rankings of D STOP %
B1G 10
UM #1 82.7%
IL #3 81.3
IOWA #4 79.7
OSU #5 78.1
Sparty #78 62.2
https://theathletic.com/3709182/2022/10/19/college-football-stop-rate-d…
October 19th, 2022 at 4:24 PM ^
Side note: Joshua Perry co-hosts a radio show at prime time. Absolutely awful. I get living in Columbus there will be natural bias, but man is the dude atrocious. Awful takes (clearly) and can talk his way out if Stroud throws a pick 6 how it benefits osu. One of the worst down here
October 19th, 2022 at 11:38 PM ^
Mike Hall has been out/limited the past couple of games. He is an absolute terror when healthy and pretty sure who Johnson dubbed the “alpha dog” in the room during the off-season.
October 19th, 2022 at 1:46 PM ^
He’s getting older might be slowing down a bit.
October 19th, 2022 at 1:56 PM ^
I read somewhere that OSU's defensive philosophy under Knowles has shifted some of the pass rush away from the line in order to shore up other areas (like linebacker) so some of their issues may simply be schematic. I do think their defense has improved over last year but they absolutely don't have a dynamic pass rusher like they had earlier. Still, I wouldn't necessarily say they have a mediocre pass rush as much as it tends to come elsewhere, such as Michael Hall (DT) who has 4.5 sacks.
October 19th, 2022 at 2:04 PM ^
Mostly agree and I may be embellishing a bit....however OSU did have 17 sacks from DT's last year and they only have 5.5 from DT's this year so far. So it isn't like DE's aren't sacking the QB because DT's are.
My overall point to this topic is that OSU touts their DE's as though they are plug and play NFL pass rushers. This year is exposing them when we consider their pass rush.....And yet nobody is talking about it.
October 20th, 2022 at 9:58 PM ^
No one is talking about it because the defense is still 5th in the nation in total defense unlike last year where they finished 59th. If the defense as a whole was performing poorly sacks would be a big talking point, but they are doing fine without them.
Also, it is disingenuous to imply that Larry Johnson Sr. has built his reputation as a DL coach with just the Bosa Brothers and Chase Young.
Just from 2000-present, LJSr. has coached the following NFL draft picks:
- 1st rounders:
- Courtney Brown
- Michael Haynes
- Jimmy Kennedy
- Tamba Hali
- Aaron Maybin
- Jared Odrick
- Joey Bosa
- Nick Bosa
- Chase Young
- 2nd rounders:
- Anthony Adams
- Devon Still
- Tyquan Lewis
- 3rd rounders:
- Jay Alford
- Jordan Hill
- Adolphus Washington
- Sam Hubbard
- Dre'Mont Jones
- Davon Hamilton
- 4th rounders:
- Jalyn Holmes
- 5th rounders:
- Jack Crawford
- Tyreke Smith
- 6th rounders:
- Michael Bennett
- 7th rounders:
- Jashon Cornell
- Jonathan Cooper
For a 21 year career span, that would be an envious list of player for any DL coach in college ball. It might be fair to say that LJSr. may be slowing down at 70 years old, but the man has earned enough latitude to retire on his own terms. The rumor a few years ago was that LJSr. made a promise to Zach Harrison in high school that he would stay as his coach for his whole college career, and he would not retire while Harrison was still playing for Ohio State.
October 19th, 2022 at 5:00 PM ^
Football Outsiders indicates it may be scheme. The OSU D-line fancy stats are slightly better than Michigan's in most places except pass rush.
We will find out soon enough.
October 19th, 2022 at 11:42 PM ^
This is correct. Having said that, there was a 3rd and long earlier this year and I looked at the DL and Tuimoloau was in a four point stance (knew he was going to rush and not just hold up the blocker for the LBs,) he absolutely abused the LT and would’ve got a sack if he didn’t get tackled on his way to him. If those guys want to get to the QB, I think there’s a pretty good chance they’ll succeed.
October 19th, 2022 at 3:10 PM ^
Our guys have to get to Stroud again this year. If they do, we have a great chance to win. If they don’t, it won’t be fun. Let’s see if they’re up to the task.
October 19th, 2022 at 4:13 PM ^
While I do think there's something to the narrative about OSU's coaches in certain roles not being as good on the field as they are in recruiting......I'm not going to start getting excited about it.
Many posters have made good points about sacks versus other stats, SoS, situations, etc. I would just say this.....they are still #14 in this stat that they supposedly suck in?? #14?!? As in, there are only 13 teams in the entire country better than them?
That's like saying you're trapped in a cage with a hungry lion but maybe the lion has a hangnail.
October 19th, 2022 at 4:21 PM ^
TBH, I think there's lots of things going on.
1) Day's OSU isn't as mean as Urban's OSU. More talented perhaps, but not as gruff. They're been giving off a similar vibe as Florida State in the years following their BCS title win.
2) It wouldn't be an insult to say LJ is past his prime. He's been doing this for a long time and has outlasted many of his peers (like say, Greg Mattison).
3) It's also fair to say that he in-part built his reputation on polishing elite d-line prospects. In contrast, Don Brown earned his dinner by maximizing underrated prospects who were extremely athletic but undersized (albeit, while low key wasting elite talents like Gary and Hutchinson).
4) Everyone was wrong about Zach Harrison, which is something that seems to happen quite often with "elite recruit" SDE types. Anyone remember Da'Shawn Hand?
October 19th, 2022 at 9:17 PM ^
I remember Da'Shawn Hand. He's still in the NFL. Same as Rashan Gary. Both guys had somewhat underwhelming college careers (based on rankings) , but are still making more than I will in my life.
Injuries may have had some to do with Gary. Alabama recruiting 5 stars at the same position every year may have had to do with Hand in college. I wouldn't be surprised if Harrison is a stud in the NFL. College defensive philosophies can hold talent back from what is actually there.
I always thought Gary would be better off in the NFL over Michigan. He was great when he played healthy. And still pretty dang good when he was hurt.
Hand was kind of between positions coming out of high school.
I'm glad they have both made their way to a successful NFL career!
I'll root for Harrison as well. After he leaves OSU!
October 20th, 2022 at 5:32 AM ^
Rashan Gary is a stud on the packers D already. He was very good here as well, just maybe not how everyone expected. It makes sense, if I remember correctly he was one of the all time highest rated recruits. Maybe we used him wrong, but we have a great track record with DL so that’s hard to accept. He was drafted 1st round so obviously things worked out as far as his NFL career ambitions go.
Da’Shawn Hand was a 4th round pick who was most recently on the Titans practice squad and I believe is now on IR