Number of players drafted from each Big Ten school
April 25th, 2020 at 11:32 PM ^
That means Wisconsin kicked the living shit out of us with less NFL talent and/or young guys ?
April 25th, 2020 at 11:39 PM ^
Let’s see how many of the Michigan guy actually make any kind of impact in the NFL. I’m guessing 2-3.
April 26th, 2020 at 12:52 AM ^
And Illinois, with even less talent and no players drafted, beat Wisconsin. What's your point?
Also, Michigan kicked the shit out of that same Illinois team.
Uh I don't think you know what "kicked the shit out of" means.
If UM lost to any school by the score of 42-25 what would you call that?
A 17 point loss is a shit kicking in my book.
Come on man. 14 of those 17 points Illinois gifted Michigan late in the fourth. Illinois rattled off 25 straight to pull within three; they made it 28-25 after Michigan was up 28-0.
You may think you know what a shit-kicking is but actually don't.
April 26th, 2020 at 12:00 PM ^
So...if it wasn't Michigan's D stepping up and making huge plays in the 4th, but rather it was Illinois giftwrapping us easy scores...then you would also conversely say that we gift wrapped two of Illinois' scores too, which would then diminish their comeback spurt?
Not to mention we had dumb penalties that killed drives and missed an easy chip shot field goal that enabled them to hang around longer.
Look at the yardage...on the road we had 489 yards and they had 256. We had 25 first downs, they had 17.
It wasn't a blow out, but we clearly were the better team and looked like it for 70% of the game.
You said "spurt"
No.
It's a win.
It's not an asskicking.
In an asskicking, you don't let your opponent score 25 points unanswered points to come within 3.
Something tells me you have trouble keeping an erection.
April 26th, 2020 at 10:18 AM ^
Why is it that when someone makes a valid point you have to criticize them personally?
April 26th, 2020 at 11:30 AM ^
Username checks out?
April 26th, 2020 at 12:49 PM ^
Cold water can do that to you.
I understand everyone is thirsty for a big road win, as am I. Context exists in everything though.
On the road in September, still figuring out a dynamically new offense, against a team that probably had that game circled from when they got their ass whipped in '18, with an injured QB that wouldn't run the ball was a buzz saw waiting to happen.
If they had met up in October/November I think the scoreboard would have looked different. Not a win necessarily, but not the ass whopping you mentioned.
And make no mistake, Michigan took an ass beating in that game.
Every year under Jim we come up with a new reason for the road losses against good opponents. Sad.
Or Wisconsin had the NFL talent in the spot that attacks our weaknesses. Our DT depth sucked. We had no size at the position. Interior line and rb were the first Wisconsin players off the board
April 25th, 2020 at 11:35 PM ^
General Michigan football ennui aside it’s nice to have draft/NFL relevance back.
April 26th, 2020 at 12:40 AM ^
Id rather have the relevance when they play for Michigan.
Bizarre comment. Ideally, our players would be “relevant” during college and also get drafted. But, what do you mean you’d rather them be relevant during their Michigan careers? Do you mean as opposed to succeeding in the NFL?
As fans, we need to do a better job understanding that players don’t exist merely to give the fanbase excitement during the season.
April 26th, 2020 at 10:44 AM ^
Hopefully it helps with recruiting
It won’t. Talent gap in recruiting has been growing the last few years. Only thing that’ll close it now is results on the field.
April 27th, 2020 at 12:23 AM ^
Cash seems to work. It did for Miami. It has for Bama. It has for Clemson.
April 25th, 2020 at 11:35 PM ^
In before all the recruiting hysteria ensues.
There's definitely been a lot of NFL talent on Harbaugh's UM teams so far, which is a great recruiting pitch moving forward. I think in order to take the next step as a program and regularly compete for championships, we need more 1st-3rd round talent as OSU demonstrated this draft. Regardless, very happy for the Michigan players who got drafted today and also those who signed UDFA contracts and will get their chances as well!
I think you can be very satisfied at the amount of players UM is sending to the NFL while still feeling like the team has underachieved, especially in big-time road games. The two aren't mutually exclusive which is what some fans don't understand. It's not a dichotomy and frankly, it's unfair to portray it as such.
Hopefully better days ahead as we continue to build!
April 26th, 2020 at 12:14 AM ^
Harbaugh has to figure out how to beat OSU or we will always be the 2nd or 3rd best east division team. Right now we are on the same level as PSU. I think if he can ever develop that elite QB, we will take the next step despite having more of an average defense.
April 26th, 2020 at 12:24 AM ^
While it sucks to say, beating OSU is not the next step. The next step is winning every game EXCEPT the OSU game. Harbaugh has to start winning tough games on the road and next season's opener (who knows when) against Washington is a perfect chance. That's going to be a solid 8-4 type Washington. That's the type of game he needs to start winning consistently.
Once they continually are 11-0 or 10-1 going into the OSU game, THEN you can shift focus to beating the Buckeyes and essentially competing for a national title.
April 26th, 2020 at 12:49 AM ^
I think Harbaugh has as much of a chance of back sliding into 6-6 or 7-5 as he does going 11-1. The regression at d tackle from 2016 until 2019 could start to affect other position groups that we havent recruited well recently like corner and outside receiver.
I don't see Michigan going 6-6 or 7-5 under Harbaugh ever again unless there's a season with a crazy amount of injuries.
The D tackle position on the current roster (recruiting is a different conversation, but they may be taking a page from the MSU playbook there) is actually on the upswing with Hinton and Smith. Agree with you though on corner recruiting.
You say “6-6 or 7-5 ever again” likes it’s even happened once yet.
Yeah, does he think Harbaugh has been coaching MSU the last few years?
You're right, I was referring to the '17 season which was actually 8-5. I don't see them being worse than that under Harbaugh.
April 26th, 2020 at 12:10 PM ^
Agree with RS here. The reasons have been debated here ad infinitum, but the reality is that OSU is not our measuring stick right now. We are at or near the level of PSU / Wisconsin. The next step in improvement is to beat those teams - as well as making sure we maintain our record against an improving Minnesota team.
As far as my thoughts, I think we will slide a bit relative to PSU / Wisconsin / (maybe) Minnesota. Our recruiting, especially on defense, and our road performances against good teams will make it difficult to stay even with teams like PSU.
April 25th, 2020 at 11:44 PM ^
Not for nothing, we're the second best team in the Game every year!
April 26th, 2020 at 12:33 AM ^
If Rutgers had someone transfer to another school and get drafted would that be a draft Rutger?
April 26th, 2020 at 12:33 PM ^
You mean like Jonah Jackson?
April 26th, 2020 at 12:51 AM ^
Nothing approaches the level of grief caused by losing to OSU every year.
But I have to say that it grates that we can’t seem to do better than Wisconsin or Iowa consistently, either. We recruit way better than they do, shell out cash for assistants... and we field QBs and defenses that are no better. Yeah, we had four OLs drafted this year, which is great... but would you trade our last 4 years of OL play for Wisconsin? I would.
Nothing will fix not beating OSU, but road wins at Wisconsin (pick one) and Iowa in the Harbaugh era would have changed the narrative quite a bit.
I agree wholeheartedly with this related to OSU. But if you are referring to the overall record compared to Wisconsin and Iowa, I think it is valid to point out that the the B1G West vs. B1G East is not a similar comparison.
The B1G East alternates with the SEC West as the most difficult conference division of college football. The B1G West is improving rapidly with the rise of Minnesota and Nebraska (maybe), but still not even close to the same level as the East.
Point being, it's fair to say the road to a "successful" season record is much easier for Wisconsin and Iowa than it is for Michigan. For Michigan to finish the season 11-1 or 12-0 would indicate a truly elite team and we haven't seen the QB play yet to get there.
I do think we will see elite QB play at Michigan again though, just hasn't worked out yet.
Maybe it’s more the fact that “NFL talent” doesn’t necessarily correlate to success in college. NFL drafts players based on measurables more-so than ability in college. If you don’t have the size or speed or agility or whatever teams are covering, you fall down boards or off of them completely. LaVert Hill was one of the best corners in college football the last few years. Three time all-conference with an all American year in 2018. He went undrafted.
Wisconsin is a PROGRAM. They’re very set in their ways. They have a set scheme and everything they do is based around that scheme. From recruiting to strength and conditioning. That allows them to compete with teams despite a perceived talent disadvantage. As long as Wisconsin has a competent running back and a good OL or two, their offense works. They strictly recruit players who fit their scheme on both sides of the ball. Iowa is much the same way. This allows them to compete with more talented opposition.
It’s not just about how talented your individual players are. It’s about getting the right players to do what you want to do. Khaleke Hudson was a three star. He’s also the perfect Viper.
You can get phenomenal college players that just aren’t considered NFL talents. Tebow was a phenomenal college QB. He also had no business being under center in the NFL. So just because you have more “NFL talent” than certain schools doesn’t necessarily mean you have the better college team/program. There’s a lot more that goes into it than talent alone.
It’s all about developing our players. Harbaugh hasn’t proven to be good or even competent. QB, WR, RB, TE are still mediocre. Defense is better, which is Brown’s area of expertise. OL is better after Warriner arrived. But I still don’t trust the position coaches to make our players better.
I mostly agree on the Wisconsin road wins needed. But hopefully we are due to field a top shelf QB that can see the field and has a stronger arm for deep balls.
Also Gattis is the WR coach we've been needing. With his offensive system and OL recruits, we should make a good step forward.
DM better be that QB. We are so due.
April 26th, 2020 at 12:57 AM ^
Ohio State keeps claiming Joe Burrow, too. So I think that means we get to claim Devin Asiasi.
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Michigan can’t recruit or develop talent? Shit I don’t know what’s the best negative spin. I give up.
OSU had a bunch in earlynrounds, UM had 5 in the 6th round. The talent level is not even close.
OSU whips our ass for a reason. Wisconsin and PSU I will never understand losing to.
April 26th, 2020 at 11:28 AM ^
The difference between top tier talent vs. good talent and good talent vs. not as good talent is pretty large.
In other words OSU, SEC elite, Clemson are stockpiling players that make up the top 5% of the recruiting population. We are loaded with players falling in the top 10-20% of the recruiting population. PSU basically recruits at our level. Wisconsin is recruiting mainly within the top 15-30% of the recruiting population.
It's a bell curve, and we are not one of the outliers recruiting 3 standard deviations from the mean. It makes sense that teams like Wisconsin and Iowa stay competitive with us and PSU is basically on par with us.
Our OSU problem is compounded by the fact that they take us seriously every time out (unlike much of the B1G), so it's tougher to pull off that "down week" upset. Like all elite teams, OSU is vulnerable to lose on any given Saturday, especially against a good although not elite teams - players are not machines after all. Unfortunately, the good team they will stumble against probably won't be their historical rival and last game of the regular season - especially when it's for the conference championship and a trip to the CFP.
April 26th, 2020 at 12:28 PM ^
Losing to Wisconsin / PSU is relatively easy to understand. Michigan teams under Harbaugh rarely play better than they are. For whatever reason, we don't really beat teams that are "better" than us, and in the case of Wisconsin and PSU, we are at about that level, so the games will go back-and-forth, with M clearly getting better results at home.
As far *why* we are at a PSU (and especially Wisconsin) level -- well, we recruit pretty well, but we don't seem to always see the results in-game, especially on the road. Reasons for that have been talked about quite a bit.
The concern trolls can't lose:
3-star mafia? Harbaugh won't croot.
NFL draft picks? What did he do with that talent?
April 26th, 2020 at 10:16 AM ^
I don’t care for the 3 star crap. Michigan can ALWAYS recruit only an idiot would say otherwise. But the wasted talent is a legit criticism. Again only an idiot would argue that
OSU M
2020. 10, 3.4avg 10, 4.7 avg
2019 9, 3.4 avg 5, 2.6 avg
2018 7, 2.7avg 2, 4 avg
2017 7, 2.4 avg 11, 3.4 avg
TOTAL: 33, 3 avg. 28, 3.4 ish avg?
NFL Draft results since JH has been the coach. Would probably be better to use the value of the picks (if the NFL still uses those numbers for trade comparison purposes?) and sum them to get a more realistic comparison. Obviously aggregate talent is not a problem for M, but the difference b/t them and OSU, Bama, LSU, is still bit too big to expect consistent results againt them.
I think this just reiterates the fact that JH has built a pretty steady foundation where one can expect a minimum of 8-9 wins, with 10-11 on the table if you include bowl games. As the old saying goes, it's one thing to go from a bad team to a mediocre to a good one (takes a mile of work to move a mile). The toughest thing to do is to go from a good team to a great team (takes a mile of work to move a foot).
IMO, the #1 thing they need is a QB. Obviously the OL has been solidified, they have talent in the aggregate, but QB has been above average at best (save Rudock in the last 1/3 of 2015).
April 26th, 2020 at 12:04 PM ^
NFL draft numbers off your roster are a reflection of that, nobody else's team. They are the people you recruited and developed. How they are perceived by pro scouts and teams for what purpose and role is a completely different issue. Most players are drafted based on potential and comparable physical skills and attributes based on historical analylsis and trends.
Round selection and player talent are primarily a function of opportunity, choice and of drafting team need, having less to do with a certain program's ability to produce overall talent at certain positions or get better athletes overall which are always a functional result of a college program's overall success.
Tom Brady is the answer to every draft question about the failure of the NFL to spotlight a great pro talent with precision because his 6th round selection means every team in the league had a chance for him, and failed to pick the all-time top winning Super Bowl quarterback. They all missed except the New England Patriots on his draft selection. And they only picked him in the second to last round because they were already set at quarterback, which is a trend still followed by most pro teams.