Notre Dame Investigation on kids death
Just saw on PTI they mentioned the school is under investigation for the death of that kid.
Apparently if it comes out that someone had told them to get the kid off that tower, and Kelly or whoever said it was ok because he was filming practice, then everyone is getting canned?
Also mentioned 3 kids have no de-committed from ND just recently
Any thoughts on this? Anyone heard any more details about this
November 4th, 2010 at 6:45 PM ^
OHSA is investigating it. i think that's what they're referring to.
November 4th, 2010 at 6:46 PM ^
What is OHSA?
November 4th, 2010 at 6:49 PM ^
Occupational Safety and Health Administration
November 4th, 2010 at 6:50 PM ^
Occupational Safety and Health Administration. Basically governing body on worker safety. Manufacturing or lab type workers know all about them. They basically make the law for anything involving worker safety.
November 4th, 2010 at 9:38 PM ^
Further info for those who have never dealt with them; OSHA is also a real big pain in the ass, and is not to be trifled with.
November 5th, 2010 at 2:10 AM ^
man I used to teach OSHA training to bunch of guys in a lumber yard as part of my summer job in college. it was a joke.
November 4th, 2010 at 6:53 PM ^
there is thing called the internet where you can look up almost anything you want
November 4th, 2010 at 9:19 PM ^
has worked for me many times!
November 4th, 2010 at 8:08 PM ^
WORST. INITIALISM. EVER.
November 4th, 2010 at 6:47 PM ^
What a tragedy. Hopefully this will not be repeated anywhere again.
November 4th, 2010 at 6:49 PM ^
An investigation about something that actually matters. Lets hope this leads to strict penalties/procedues and it never happens again.
November 4th, 2010 at 6:48 PM ^
The only thing I have heard is that many schools around the country have very strict policies that video people follow when up in those lifts. Many also bring with them digital wind gauges to know when to lower the lift at unsafe levels. Also, many lifts are actually bolted into the ground. Why ND had none of this, I don't know. Unfortunately there aren't any "good" things that can come of this, but the best would be mere negligence by ND, and the worst being a figure like Kelly mandating that the kid stays in the tower to film under any/all circumstances.
I just can't see how a program like that doesn't have safety measures in place when many universities have called out ND by stating publicly that they take measures to ensure the safety of their recorders. Unfortunate result indeed.
November 4th, 2010 at 7:00 PM ^
Unfortunately there aren't any "good" things that can come of this,
I have to disagree with that statement. A lot of good can come out of it to prevent future tragedies like this.
November 4th, 2010 at 7:13 PM ^
I agree. I meant from the Notre Dame "why this happened" perspective and how the investigation plays into that. I should have been more specific.
November 4th, 2010 at 6:49 PM ^
Somewhere Jason Whitlock is cackling and rolling a blunt.
November 4th, 2010 at 6:52 PM ^
The worst part about it is how the kid was tweeting shit like " Well I guess i have lived long enough" etc..
That is horrible to have the last memory of your son and that is what he wrote online..
I have a feeling when this is all over heads are gonna roll and someone is gonna get fired..
I would said F this and just never gone up there..
November 4th, 2010 at 7:02 PM ^
When did he post that?
November 4th, 2010 at 7:06 PM ^
but unless you must, I would stay away from looking it up. Sad stuff.
November 4th, 2010 at 8:12 PM ^
Agreed. I saw his twitter posts on accident (clicking random links on Reddit without really reading what they are), and I kind of wish they hadn't been posted. Or at the very least, that I hadn't looked at them.
November 5th, 2010 at 1:51 AM ^
This may sound insensitive but why is no-one asking why in the hell the kid was still up in the tower after tweeting stuff like that?
I feel really bad for the kid and his family, I really do, and I believe there is no reason he should have been up there, but why didn't he just get the fuck down? I just can't understand how someone can tweet that they're scared shitless, but not just get down from the tower.
November 5th, 2010 at 3:45 AM ^
i was thinking that too. must've felt a lot of pressure to go up there and keep his job/ not look like a puss. all the more reason heads should roll. they knew he was up there and they had to have ok'd it for him to be up there. you cant really miss a 50 foot tower over looking your football field...
November 4th, 2010 at 8:13 PM ^
tweets after he was up in the tower. terribly sad.
November 5th, 2010 at 1:31 AM ^
"I would said F this and just never gone up there.."
Would you have? I know if I were in that situation, being able to film practice everyday for the team I've rooted for all of my life, it would be difficult for me to speak up even if I knew going up there wasn't very smart. I probly would've just gone up there.
It's just really, really sad.
November 4th, 2010 at 6:53 PM ^
It's gonna get very ugly. From the limited comments Swarbrick has made, he is totally in CYA mode. Depending on the "mood" of the local prosecutor, the director of the video group who decided to have the kid go up on the lift on such an obviously bad day could be brought up on charges of negligent homicide. If Kelly keeps his job, it will be solely because Declan Sullivan's parents let him. ND will do whatever it needs to do to settle this as quietly as possible, including firing Kelly if need be. This is far bigger than Kelly.
November 4th, 2010 at 6:59 PM ^
I wouldn't be surprised if an ambitious prosecutor is also looking into this. I haven't looked up the Indiana statutes and I'm not going to but a criminally-negligent manslaughter charge wouldn't be that much of a reach.
November 4th, 2010 at 7:19 PM ^
I can tell you from personal experience that the St. Joseph County prosecutor can in no way be described as ambitious, if the definition of ambitious is aggressively pursuing criminal charges. Couple that with the political prowess of ND in St. Joe County and I would be shocked if any charges get filed on this.
November 4th, 2010 at 7:42 PM ^
Kind of stupid for Swarbrick to say everything was fine until a sudden gust of wind knocked over the tower when there is probably an hour of practice video from the day and a hundred or so witnesses who will testify otherwise.
November 4th, 2010 at 6:56 PM ^
I'm not an attorney, but if someone told Kelly to take him down, and Kelly said no, OSHA may be the least of his worries. I'm not sure, but there may be a chance of a negligent homicide or involuntary manslaughter charge. Hopefully, it won't come to that, but it's a terrible situation for all involved.
November 4th, 2010 at 7:01 PM ^
It's not necessarily a matter of Kelly ignoring instructions; it wouldn't be that hard to establish that Kelly, as the head football coach, is ultimately responsibile for the conduct of the practice, thus a duty, and a duty breached by failing to act reasonably under the circumstances.
November 4th, 2010 at 6:58 PM ^
I just want to reiterate this point. I know there are alot of kids reading this blog. Always remember - never do anything you don't want to do. If you have a bad feeling don't be afraid to act on it. If you get fired so what. God bless this poor kid and his family but let it be a lesson - never compromise your own safety - anywhere, but especially at work. It isn't worth it. Remember on 9/11 they were advising the people in the ofices NOT to evacuate. Don't listen if somebody tells you what you know isn't right.
November 4th, 2010 at 7:59 PM ^
Specially when you are younger and not in a position of authority.
November 4th, 2010 at 9:10 PM ^
Yes but that is my point - screw authority, don't be afraid to stick up for yourself. Especially when you are young and not in a position of authority.
You are the only person who is going to look out for you.
November 4th, 2010 at 7:01 PM ^
If it turns out that Kelly is the one who either ordered him to go up there or to stay up there, then I don't see him surviving that. That would probably destroy his career, let alone cost him his job at Notre Dame.
November 4th, 2010 at 7:06 PM ^
I totally agree.. It seems they are trying to keep this really quiet, but this is probably one of the biggest issues in the media if you ask me..
I would be completely Shocked if Kelly doesn't get fired as well.. He is in deep shit as far as im concerned..
There is no way that no one mentioned getting the kid down.. Someone obviously made him stay up there and someone is gonna pay big time.
November 4th, 2010 at 7:01 PM ^
November 4th, 2010 at 7:22 PM ^
Brian Kelly will be fired at the end of this season due to this unfortunate event. At best, his contract is voided and both sides mutually decide to move on. Kelly will do TV for a few years, repair his reputation by debating with Mark May and Craig James, then look for another coaching job. At worst, some ambitious DA brings up charges to Kelly, Swarbrick, and the university, Kelly ends up getting a criminal negligence charge, and potentially jail time and heavy fines, and a "show cause" penalty from the NCAA.
Jack Swarbrick is one of Notre Dame's own. They are doing everything possible to separate him from this incident. Father Jenkins and the admin knows that they need Swarbrick to keep the alums under control. However, the way he reacted shows that he probably isn't much of a leader. I suspect Father Jenkins will look for a certain personality as the coach to make Swarbrick expandable.
In summary, I would not be surprised if Lou Holtz returns in some capacity, and bring Skip with him.
November 4th, 2010 at 7:54 PM ^
Why would the mods lock this thread? am i missing something
November 4th, 2010 at 8:03 PM ^
It's technically OT I guess, but yeah, I don't see a problem with it either.
November 4th, 2010 at 7:26 PM ^
Hope they investigate and get the situation corrected. Very sad.
November 4th, 2010 at 8:05 PM ^
at the press conference was that a sudden gust sent objects that had previously not taken flight flying past him. Included on the list of flying things was "towels" Does anybody with multiple brain cells buy this? Towels went flying past him? I would be OK with a description of them being blown along the ground, but it seemed to me that he was already in ass-covering mode. By saying that one freak gust toppled the tower, he attempts to undercut any arguments that the conditions in general were unsafe. If you buy his story, by the time conditions became unsafe it was tragically too late.
November 4th, 2010 at 10:36 PM ^
Swarbrick's comments were actually quite damaging, without him knowing it. It is well-known in the construction industry that winds get more severe the higher you rise off the ground. If towels were flying through the air at grade then the conditions would have been much scarier up at the heights from which the unfortunate student was filming.
November 4th, 2010 at 8:14 PM ^
If what happened there were to happen on a construction site or any other job, every supervisor on duty would be fired/suspended indefinitely and would be under investigation for negligent homicide...just sayin
November 4th, 2010 at 8:21 PM ^
exactly my roommate from college is a safety supervisor for a huge world wide construction company and we saw some guy up on a high ladder when it was really windy out and said someone would of got fired for that. I can't imagine the consequences of this..
November 4th, 2010 at 8:27 PM ^
I have a son who's entering college next fall and I can't help but feel incredibly sad for the parents. I'm at a loss on what I would say to them other then, "God Bless you and your son."
November 4th, 2010 at 10:07 PM ^
Forbes online has a story speculating that this could cost ND $30 million in damages.
http://blogs.forbes.com/sportsmoney/2010/11/01/declan-sullivans-death-c…
November 4th, 2010 at 10:15 PM ^
He said it wasn't very windy and then all of sudden there was a big gust of wind. Even though it was very windy that day It's very possible that because of surrounding buildings it wasn't that windy; but at ground level. Not hundreds of feet up in the air!! The local news weather man said at the time of the incident the winds were sustained at 33MPH and the gusts were around 50MPH. Even the manufacturer of the lift doesn't recommend using it in wind speeds over 22MPH.
It's very sad this happened. Didn't anybody have some thought that this kid shouldn't be on that lift at all?