Northwestern: Freshmen & Sophomores all remote, Greek houses closed
The title really says it all. Based on what they are seeing on other campuses, Northwestern has decided to have all Freshmen and Sophomores take classes remotely. All fraternity and sorority houses are closed. Third and fourth year students, along with graduate schools and professional schools, are allowed back on campus, but with public health protocols being followed. This just came out in a Chicago Tribune story.
These actions seem reasonable and prudent, given the experience of universities which have already opened. I hope that U of M is able to make adjustments now, given what we have seen happening on campuses elsewhere. It seems that college students are basically ignoring public health guidelines and choosing to party and socialize without precautions. Obviously, many students are wearing masks, but a significant subset are not. And the Greek system seems to be a main culprit of bad behavior on many campuses.
August 28th, 2020 at 8:04 PM ^
As a former member of the Greek community at Michigan, I resemble that remark
August 28th, 2020 at 8:22 PM ^
The colleges are gonna shoot themselves in the foot with remote learning. I don’t know how you can charge the fees for classes, and hold them online. At this point there isn’t much of a difference between Northwestern and the University of Phoenix for your gen ed courses.
August 28th, 2020 at 8:45 PM ^
It's not sustainable. None of these universities want to go online and the ones that have want to bring their students back in January.
August 28th, 2020 at 9:16 PM ^
I would think it is ultimately not the preference of schools at any level, but for the time being, remote-only makes far more sense than turning the campus into a COVID factory potentially.
My kids are only in high school and middle school, but our district only really committed completely to the first quarter being online and then things will be assessed (their word). They really do want the kids in the buildings like colleges would love to have the students on campus, but right now....not really the best thing.
August 29th, 2020 at 3:48 PM ^
My 3rd grader has their first I-ready test this week to see where they are at on math and reading. It will be very interesting to see how much has been lost over the last 6 months. I doubt the schools will release the averages but I’m sure word will get out.
I am wondering if it will look like typical loss over a summer plus a little or if it will be much worse than that.
August 28th, 2020 at 9:53 PM ^
Just because it's online doesn't mean that Northwestern profs are being replaced by U of Phoenix instructors.
If schools had spent the summer prepping their professors to teach in an online environment, there is absolutely no reason that the classes couldn't be immersive and high quality. I went to two different B1G schools and a satellite of one. One of the 3 best courses I ever enrolled in was an entirely online 400/Grad combined course on the history and literature of Ireland from 1800 - to Home Rule that was taught at the satellite campus. Because the two professors were open to technology and worked hard to create a system that encouraged discussion it was amazing.
Aside from all of that, the inside of a lecture at big public schools isn't all that removed from an online course. The majority of students in a lecture are going to be staring at their laptops as they take notes. How is that substantively different than an online course?
August 28th, 2020 at 9:59 PM ^
Your final paragraph made the point for me. I understand there are higher level professors at universities like Northwestern, Michigan, Harvard, etc. But if colleges are gonna charge prime rates to “stare at laptops and take notes”, why wouldn’t I transfer in later and keep the cash.
The dirty secret is that gen ed courses are what makes the universities run. Just like in club sports, the top team is what makes the name for the club, but the 2nd,3rd, and 4th teams are what pays the bills. You run off the lower level players (gen ed students in this case) and it’s super difficult to make everything else go as smooth as you would want.
This is what colleges are doing now, and people are starting to take note that 60% of students don’t finish with a degree once they start. Why pay bogus amounts of money to just be saddled with debt?
August 29th, 2020 at 12:22 AM ^
How dare the kids use computers instead of paper to take notes!
As always, you're going to get out of college what you put into it. I was simply commenting on what the lecture hall looks like and how it won't look much different than learning online.
August 29th, 2020 at 3:28 AM ^
The quality of the instructor does not mean all that much with basic, foundational classes. Most of those classes are taught or led by GAs anyways. You can complete the first two years of college reqs at a community college without any meaningful drop off in quality other than not having the "college experience". Think about the courses you took as a freshman. Almost all of them can be taken online at a community college with no meaningful difference in what you learn.
The sad reality is that most students who go to 4 year colleges today are not ready for them. They need additional foundational skills, structure, motivation or a combination of the three in order to get the most out of higher education. Yet the industry has become a booming business and nothing is going to change it until the federal gov't comes to its senses and stops backstopping student loans.
August 29th, 2020 at 12:39 PM ^
I think it really depends on your major and course of study, I would say about half of my classes my freshman and sophomore year at Michigan were on topics that would most likely not be taught at a community college.
I can only speak about humanities and history as it is my experience but off the top of my head, during my first two years, I took classes on American involvement in Middle Eastern Wars, the Kurdish political experience in Turkey and Iraq, and Central Asian history all while studying Modern Greek language to set up a study abroad experience in Greece my junior year.
Sure, I also took some generic math, american history, science, and basic philosophy, but about half of my classes --- the ones that had the greatest effect on my eventual professional path ---- were already highly specialized and not something I have seen on a community college curriculum. I have always appreciated Michigan for providing that value. This is not to say community colleges are without value, I think they provided tremendous value for many. But for me, Michigan was extremely worth it.
August 29th, 2020 at 4:55 PM ^
Even for things we would consider more generic like American History you can still get some great professors at Michigan that you are not going to get at the community college level. I still remember both US history classes I had with Sidney Fine In the mid 90’s as one of the best educational experiences of my life.
September 1st, 2020 at 2:41 PM ^
Oh, I totally agree. The professors I had at Michigan were almost all excellent, both as scholars in their field and as educators/motivators.
August 28th, 2020 at 8:36 PM ^
"And the Greek system seems to be a main culprit of bad behavior on many campuses."
My comment may get negged to heck, but this comment by and large, not pointing fingers at all people that are and or were part of Greek Life, is true not only for Covid, but unfortunately other unsavory things that happens on college campuses like rape, sexual assault, hazing, alcoholism / binge drinking, etc.
Why does this have to be this way, why cannot young people behave, while still eating a little consensual ass, properly? Why must they go to extremes, what fucking sort of Badge of Honor are these unnecessary behaviors? Not trying to be a prude, and I had "fun" while at Michigan, but never got into these things and my life is reasonably complete - other than no college sports.
Sorry to rant.
August 28th, 2020 at 8:59 PM ^
I couldn’t agree more.
The Greek system should be completely dismantled. All of the negatives you’ve cited are true...in addition to the systemic elitism and exclusionary mindset.
August 28th, 2020 at 9:07 PM ^
I would counter though that the Black fraternities at least when I was at U-M were probably the best student organizations on campus. I wouldn’t say all of Greek Life is bad, but yes, some of the most debaucherous acts I witnessed were not at Skeeps or Ricks, but at fraternity houses.
August 28th, 2020 at 11:35 PM ^
Black fraternities and sororities, are different because there's really only 9 of them. The Devine 9.
The hazing has gotten some in trouble, but it's almost never the partying, underage drinking, and other debauchery that you see in most Greek life.
Other than the networking piece and automatic "friends for life"...what is really the point of Greek life in 2020? Tradition?
August 28th, 2020 at 9:09 PM ^
I'm a former fraternity member and resident at UofM, and I still completely agree with you. From my perspective, this isn't a morality question or a question of being a prude. It is a question of public health, and the good of all involved. And it is the maddening ability for too many to say, "The rules don't apply to me."
This isn't just Greeks, and it isn't conservatives or liberals or progressives. It is selfish people who justify ignoring social distancing when they want to. And it happens everywhere . . . it happens with so-called "influencers" out partying in LA, it happens with the uber-wealthy in enclaves of Massachusetts and New York and Rhode Island and Connecticut, it happens with progressives choosing to protest in huge crowds, it happens among some at political gatherings where many choose to congregate and fail to wear a mask.
In general, I believe I can only be responsible for myself, and I have no reason to ever dictate to someone else what they should or should not do. But the utter shameless selfishness and narcissism of so many is disgusting and disheartening. End of rant.
August 29th, 2020 at 7:55 PM ^
Boo both sidesism. Is the protest outside, socially distanced, and masked? Then you have no valid covid-related complaint.
August 28th, 2020 at 9:23 PM ^
I hope Michigan's being savvy.
August 28th, 2020 at 9:43 PM ^
I wasn't aware MGOblog is now MSM by posting all the positive Covid cases every fucking day....man, we should all just hide in a bunker the rest of our lives.
August 28th, 2020 at 10:06 PM ^
Yet you keep spewing your shit takes too
August 28th, 2020 at 11:40 PM ^
you go to the bunker...we'll let you know when it's safe to come out.
August 28th, 2020 at 11:47 PM ^
In all seriousness you idiots acting like your rights are violated and complaining ALL the time are really missing out.
For most people, life is not that bad outside of no CFB right now. If you just wear a mask, social distance and be smart...most people still have access to a lot of the same things.
This past weekend, I went with the wife to one of our favorite restaurants. Sat outside...it was the same thing, I just had more space and I had to wear a mask when I wasn't eating. Big whup.
I can still workout, I go into work 5x week, I can get groceries, I see friends more now than ever before due to Zoom. Hiking, hanging out at the lake.
The only things I've really missed are attending sporting events and concerts. But y'all are too busy whining rather than making the most of a challenging situation for JUST ABOUT EVERYONE. Get over it, it's really not that bad.
August 29th, 2020 at 1:46 AM ^
I mean, yeah I haven't worked in 5 months, but other than that, life is great.
August 29th, 2020 at 11:00 AM ^
That's why I tried to chose my words carefully and I could've done a better job.
People have lost jobs, people have DIED.
I don't take that lightly.
I was speaking specifically to these people who think their RIGHTS are violated because they can't go to a bar. That's it. Those people need to get a fucking grip. So you have to wear a mask? So what? Quit acting like someone has locked you in a room for 6 months.
But so sorry you lost your job, or were furloughed or whatever may have resulted in you being out of work.
August 29th, 2020 at 9:44 AM ^
Happy thing are going so well for you. Meanwhile:
1. My son worked his ass off and will not get to play his tennis season(8th grade) where he had a shot to be first singles. For a kid with really low self esteem who isn’t Mr. popular, he will really miss the daily practices and enjoyment of hanging with his teammates.
2. Same son just had had basketball season cancelled. He and his teammates have played together since 3rd grade and won’t get their final season.
3. My 9-year-old just had his basketball and soccer travel seasons cancelled.
4. My best friend’s autistic son has completely regressed from being out of a normal routine.
5. My other good friend has a kid with some social issues and depression. The kid is in a tailspin.
6. At least 3 of my friends had to close long-time businesses (one of which was started by his grandfather) because of restrictions.
Happy that lockdown is treating you so well. Many aren’t in the same boat.
August 29th, 2020 at 11:06 AM ^
AGAIN, I was not speaking to you...
I specifically said "you idiots complaining" and directed my post at the bros who are crying about not going to a bar when...
1. People like YOU are actually going through some shit.
And
2. People like me, who have been privileged enough (so far) to be relatively unaffected (compared to someone like you and many others on this board)...really don't have it bad at all. Stop fucking complaining about wearing a mask and not being able to go to bars (unless you own the damn thing).
I'm speaking the millions out there who act like there isn't a pandemic and life is awful because it's not exactly how they're used it. That's garbage. Make the most of the situation if your privilege allows you to do so...STFU, people are actually suffering while the "bros" cry about it.
August 28th, 2020 at 11:50 PM ^
Science, academia, anyone involved in research, or epidemiology, and the vast majority of the educated public: please refrain from close in person contact. It will help us to return to normal, and get back to football within a year.
You, conspiracy theorists, others who don't understand how science works: FUCK THIS SHIT! I AM HEADING BACK TO MY LIFE!! BORTLES!!!!
If we'd all acted the way responsible nations have acted when this started, we'd be back to college football by now. Europe and se Asia are back to their sports.
August 29th, 2020 at 9:46 AM ^
Asia and Europe are experiencing spikes in cases.
Also, Asia and Europe got hit first, so naturally they are ahead of us. Just like NY is ahead of Florida.
August 29th, 2020 at 7:57 PM ^
lol bortles
August 29th, 2020 at 1:06 AM ^
Hmm, maybe I should trust the judgement of the TATEisGREAT guy.
Naw, I think I'll stay up to date on cases in the middle of a pandemic.
August 28th, 2020 at 11:40 PM ^
Smart move by NW to be proactive on this.
Also get the freshman and sophomores off, the ones who aren't old enough to drink and by and large...make most of the poor decisions.
Get the upperclassmen back who are beginning to think about life after college. Also just de-densify the campus. 1 person per dorm room, enough people that you can social distance in dining halls, everything just becomes more manageable.
And for them its one quarter. In January, they're all supposed to come back.
I know one thing...I'd be PISSED if I got a lease and I could be at home getting meals from mom every night, laundry, and all I have to do is school work online? Not a bad gig.
August 29th, 2020 at 3:52 PM ^
Stanford and USC made the decision to not bring undergraduates back long before classes started before they had to commit to leases. As an alum, I am dissapointed in Michigan’s actions. Stanford also has detailed plan for the man graduate students on campus with single occupancy rooms and additional dedicated quarantine capacity. Both West Coast schools have done an amazing job developing a plan that takes into count the students and families. They are also limited partially by county rules.
August 29th, 2020 at 4:06 AM ^
So does the university own the Greek life houses at Northwestern? If not, I’m curious how they have the authority to close them off. If I recall, U of M does not have that kind of power over Greek life unless the university actually owns the house. Now of course they can ban houses from being affiliated with campus, shut down events, etc., but physically closing the house and preventing people who signed leases from actually living there? I don’t recall Michigan being able to do that, but I could be wrong.
Also curious, even though the university helps them with finding alternative housing, I hope this means those students are able to break their lease at the fraternity/sorority without any problems or not be forced to pay two leases for the year. I know plenty of people on here have a strong distaste for Greek life, and I get why. But I still hope they were given a way to break their lease with minimal to no penalty. Otherwise that just, to me, would not at all be right.
August 29th, 2020 at 9:17 AM ^
At Northwestern, I'm pretty sure the Greek houses are on university property (don't know what the ownership of the actual houses looks like), which is likely the source of authority to shut them down.
August 29th, 2020 at 8:20 AM ^
The problem is that these universities are sucking in all these kids with their non-refundable tuition deposits before going online. Total bait and switch. It is disgusting. If I was still at school I would be so pissed.
August 29th, 2020 at 11:33 AM ^
“Yes, it is obvious that college students won’t mask/socially distance” and “literal 3 year olds that 100% compliant with masking”. I know apples/oranges, but I’m sure there are large numbers of college students fed up with some of their peers.