New Rivals 4 stars

Submitted by Bo Knows on

Chase Winovich earns a fourth star from Rivals based on his senior film.  Bryan Mone however, lost his 4th star.  Very peculiar considering that he wasn't bad in the UA game, just didn't stand out.  We'll see what happens when they hit the field though.

MGoBoard

Leonhall

January 22nd, 2014 at 12:48 PM ^

For info. However anybody who's concerned about a players stars needs to relax...it's all about, development, development, development....something that we need to get good at...

Joined: 06/14/2012

MGoPoints: 16430

clarkiefromcanada

January 22nd, 2014 at 1:00 PM ^

I'd personally prefer we actually keep our players around to develop.

The senior classes of Lewan/Schofield (2009) and current senior class (2010) lost 45% of their players to attrition already. 

Hoke seems to be doing a good job keeping his two full classes together. If he can keep the classes together, redshirt players when indicated then I can spend less time on my Saturdays watching young players not quite ready for prime time "developing" on the fields (Bosch, Kalis, Stribling...) and instead watch developed Junior and Senior talent on the field.

This meme that the staff doesn't develop players isn't particularly factual given the ridiculous attrition rate of the last and present senior classes. Going forward, the "luxury" enjoyed by our rivals in Ohio and Sparty in having full classes will enable development in practice over years vs. me having to stare at the development (and its associated plus/minus) on the field.

 

 

Joined: 11/20/2008

MGoPoints: 49257

clarkiefromcanada

January 22nd, 2014 at 4:38 PM ^

Regarding the necessity for results over the next 2 seasons (and unless armageddon hits next fall Brandon gives Hoke two years).

But let's be clear here. I am not making any excuse for Hoke here nor am I blaming RichRod. For whatever reason there has been historic and monumental attrition the likes of which have never been seen at Michigan. Losing half of your potential seniors and redshirt seniors over two years is not an excuse. It's explanatory about on-field development and performance, however.

You're right though as of September it won't be any longer.

Joined: 11/20/2008

MGoPoints: 49257

trueblueintexas

January 22nd, 2014 at 5:26 PM ^

I get the whole "youth" argument if you are talking about the offense. I'm more concerned about the development on defense. Depth was a concern, but many schools have to look to first or second year players for depth.

Here was the starting defense: (year in program is specific to Hoke/Mattison coaching)

D-Line

Clark - Jr. (3 years, considerable experience)

Black - Sr. (3 years, considerable experience)

Henry - RS Fr (1 year, no expereince)

Wormly - RS Fr (1 year, with injury, no experience)

 

LB's

Ross - So (2 years, suffecient experience)

Morgan - Jr (3 years, considerable experience)

Gordon - Sr (3 years, suffecient experience)

Ryan - Jr (3 years, returning from injury)

 

DB's

Taylor - Jr (3 years, considerable experience)

Countess - Jr (3 years, returning from injury, considerable experience)

Wilson - So (2 years, suffecient expereince)

Gordon - Sr (3 years, considerable experience)

 

I get that almost every back up behind the starting unit was a first or second year player, but to say the defense was so young just isn't true. Especially factoring in not only experience but age as well.

 

Joined: 11/10/2008

MGoPoints: 36653

alum96

January 22nd, 2014 at 6:01 PM ^

I've argued the same thing - UM defense was not "youthful" - frankly aside from TE and interior OL UM had plenty of experience in the starters last year.  They were very young at those 2 positions and backups - but every team is young at backups.  So either the older guys are just not that good, not that well coached, or some combination of those 2.   The common meme now is Mattison cannot play press defense since he has two small CBs AND OR he doesnt trust the safeties...one of which was a senior last year.  So either Kovaks was just that great or this is just the Mattison defense. 

 

I dont know we gave up a lot of gash plays in the passing game playing very conservative so I'd at least like to take chances if we are going to give up those gash plays anyhow.   Mattison seems to think the average Big 10 QB is a NFL dude, when outside of Cook (ugh), Devin, Hackenberg and Miller, and maybe dude from Wiscy, most of these guys don't exactly have cannons.  And some of those guys above are not super accurate - he seems to show a lot of respect to a conference that probably has 2 dudes who will be playing in the NFL at QB.

But to your larger point the defense was not super young - its an excuse, especially as the year went by.  Even the younger guys like Ross and Countess were 2 year starters by the end of the year.  And those were some of the team's worse games (some injuries such as Ross v OSU)

Joined: 04/28/2012

MGoPoints: 82515

switch26

January 22nd, 2014 at 6:18 PM ^

i agree as well..  ive mentioned in a few posts that during the Carr era i use to freak out when we would see freshman on the field..

 

Then this year we started more freshman than we ever have in michigan history..  That doesn't bode to well in terms of player development..  

 

Too many people freak out that these freshman aren't playing like juniors already..

 

Now this coming year Hoke's first class will be Juniors, and the last half of the class he helped recruit will be seniors..  So lets see what happens with more upperclassmen..  

 

I personally think if we can make it thru this year with the young Offensive line developing and coming along, then i think we will be ok in the long run..

Joined: 02/04/2010

MGoPoints: 8309

switch26

January 22nd, 2014 at 6:18 PM ^

i agree as well..  ive mentioned in a few posts that during the Carr era i use to freak out when we would see freshman on the field..

 

Then this year we started more freshman than we ever have in michigan history..  That doesn't bode to well in terms of player development..  

 

Too many people freak out that these freshman aren't playing like juniors already..

 

Now this coming year Hoke's first class will be Juniors, and the last half of the class he helped recruit will be seniors..  So lets see what happens with more upperclassmen..  

 

I personally think if we can make it thru this year with the young Offensive line developing and coming along, then i think we will be ok in the long run..

Joined: 02/04/2010

MGoPoints: 8309

Yeezus

January 22nd, 2014 at 1:31 PM ^

We likely lost two five stars (Hand and McDowell) in 2014 due to a SHITTY 2013 season.

We likely lost two five stars (Campbell and Harris) in 2015 due to the aforementioned shitty 2013 season.  Although, this is less of a direct correlation than the loss of Hand/McDowell.  

I think we're fine from a recruiting standpoint but could have had some GREAT classes in 14/15 that propelled us to National Title contenders.  That, unfortunately, did not happen.  Because 2013.  

Joined: 01/02/2014

MGoPoints: 2437

alum96

January 22nd, 2014 at 2:36 PM ^

It is all on your definition of "had".  I think most logical people would agree while not a LOI we "had" Campbell and Harris.  I think most would agree we "had" Hand - remember that post by the guy who came with Hand to UTL2 and how he dropped VATech a few months earlier and UM was in the drivers seat with Bama and UF coming in late?  I dont emphasize too much the "lean" stuff but Hand was something like 70%+ to UM IMO.  None of us know for sure.  Now McDowell on the other hand I dont think was ever a "had" as it was always difficult to read him and it seems like his parents were more high on UM then he was... 

So yes, we never had any of these kids nor we do "have" any of these 2014s other than the early enrollees but if Peppers decommits in the next 2 weeks it would be difficult to say we never "had" him except by the letter of the law.  By the spirit of the law we had Campbell, Harris and one could argue Hand (more loosely).  As Chantel Jennings tweeted - there is a cause and effect.  The mediocre results on the field are speaking as the 2011 BCS year glow is fading fast.

Joined: 04/28/2012

MGoPoints: 82515

woodfeld

January 22nd, 2014 at 2:03 PM ^

More like it would help save the 2016 class.  By the time UM is getting credit for a bounceback season, if it should happen, a lot of these 2015 kids will have made up their minds on where they are going or where they are taking visits.

Joined: 07/31/2008

MGoPoints: 804

gte896u

January 22nd, 2014 at 2:36 PM ^

none of them will be signed. if UM is 11-2 after a bowl win with a top ten ranking and a few weeks to signing day all of UM's '15 guys are in play. not that im making a prediction, but there are a lot of things that can happen between the end of the season and signing day. our* starting qb just F'n transferred, so really just about anything could happen. *our = GT

Joined: 11/06/2008

MGoPoints: 2318

Jimmyisgod

January 22nd, 2014 at 2:34 PM ^

McDowell is in fact visiting Sparty this weekend and he did in fact eliminate Ohio State too.  Not been looking good for us for a while IMO.

Mone looked very good to me, but I guess he struggled mightily in practice at the UA AA game.  One week of practice means nothing IMO, this kid is going to be great, I'm no less excited about him now than I was a few weeks ago.

Joined: 01/24/2012

MGoPoints: 10342

MDwolverine

January 22nd, 2014 at 2:55 PM ^

I don't really know where else to put this...but I'm home for the week helping to take care of our newborn and am watching the Senior Bowl Practice...

I feel like it is worth mentioning that Michael Schofield is doing fantastic and is being applauded unanimously from the commentating crew including several comments about "great technique" after stoning Hageman.

I figured it was worth bringing up with so many concerned about Funk's tutledge.

Joined: 02/05/2011

MGoPoints: 1327

Michigania

January 22nd, 2014 at 4:32 PM ^

Dammit. I knew it. I was quite pissed that we should have been plsying him at RG this season. Id bet had they put Magnuson or Braden at RT wed have been far better off with experience inside. I thought it was AMATEUR NIGHT when we start three freshmen on the interior. Seriously.

Joined: 01/25/2011

MGoPoints: 2001