No more yanky me whanky, Grandpa.
Late Late Night Open Thread
im having issues starting a new forum topic, and believe im the only one still awake, but...
t-wolf is tweeting that theres a team meeting tuesday at 4pm.
time for DEFCON-4?
(havent seen that listed on the other threads, sorry if this is a repeat of old news.)
a coach whose good (functional even) and is relatively clean.
Or bathes semi-regularly?
I watched this really cheesy (but I hate to admit, watchable) teen movie about rugby the other day (Play Strong, or something), and this one dude went the whole season without bathing. And THEY WON NATIONALS. WOOOt!
I think there is a small chance of Patterson/Gruden, as I doubt this was a one-man search after H*******.
All we have so far is Schad-level speculation re key aspects of the offered deal (rough salary package, negotiaton of buyout). Nothing about staff, or other second-order rumors that suggest folks are thinking beyond the deal and to the Miles Era proper.
But where the planes and Brandon have been, and what's coming out of Les's mouth. He hasn't been playing coy...he sounds like a guy who doesn't want to be caught saying he's not going to leave when he is.
You're probably right, but it could also merely mean he wants to leave, but that M has not yet come to terms with him.
If you remember back in 2007, the Rich Rod announcement came a bit out of left field. I think these things are never as easy slam dunks as they may seem. I also don't understand why it would take four full days (since Les Miles' Cotton Bowl) to contact and announce Les as our head coach if he was the only serious candidate.
DB could be trying to pull an overnight miracle with Patterson/Gruden before making the final decision on Miles.
It seems fairly clear that Fitzgerald and Pinkel were at least reached out to as well...
I read somewhere that Gruden said "No, heck no. I'll be back." on the radio last night when Mike Tirico asked him whether he would consider any job offers this offseason.
Less than 48 hours left without a coach! It's been a wild ride, but I've puked about 12 times and it's time to get off. Now, I can has presser?
Has there been any indication that we will for sure know anything within 48 hours?
From all of these coaching rumors, all I can think of is this quote "Nothing is true, everything is permitted"
Well "Les Miles" you could help yourself out if you were to make a decision one way or the other. Then you wouldn't have to come on the blog and ask us what was going to happen. Give DB a call back and decide so we can all "sure know".
I would be fine with Miles, but I think it's Patterson.
According to ESPN Patterson just announced he was staying at Boise this evening. Then again if it was (ahem) "Mr. College Football" KH making the announcement then Patterson is definitely coming to Michigan.
That would be Peterson you are talking about, the poster above was talking about Gary Patterson.
I meant Gary Patterson (TCU).
We're talking about Patterson from TCU. You're referring to Chris Petersen at Boise State.
Peterson, Patterson...tomato, tomato. My bad. It is late.
For the simple reason that they don't taste as good on a bacon and lettuce sandwich. It has always been about the BLT. The BLP sounds like a gas station...
I think that the good people of Boise State would be on board with potato/potato as the expression of choice.
I guess it just didnt make sense in the song...
Patterson has proven he's a great coach, but I don't think there's any way in hell he's coming here. If it's not Miles, it'll be Hoke. It wouldn't surprise me at all if Miles turns us down, either. What would really make it interesting would be if Miles did that, and then Hoke takes the job at Stanford. The abuse heaped on DB's head would be amazing to behold.
This search is detrimental to everything. Mostly my mind.
Embrace the chaos and the chaos cannot hurt you. Become the chaos and you will love the chaos.
Anyone who doesn't think it's Miles at this point is deluding themselves. The Hat is coming home.
Just home from an evening at the UChicago Pub watching the BCS championship game, trying to piece this all together.
So this is really happening, yeah?
Buzz is that Miles is interested, LSU is willing to cooperate by waiving/reducing buyout (AD really likes Miles, and knew he was conflicted last time around but stuck with his team), Miles met with Michigan today, and the ball is in M's court. If I had to guess, I would say this is 75% done, but I still maintain it was likely M is/was talking to other, none-Hoke options.
Joe Schad's tweet was misleading, but subsequent reports cleared up the confusion. LSU has not agreed to waive the $1.25 MM buyout if LM leaves, it has agreed to eliminate it entirely if he stays. They have also offered him an extension (unclear whether they have offered an increase in compensation).
If you stay? That's no incentive.
I agree. My understanding is the money is not the thing keeping Miles at LSU. LSU is not offering much more money but they are offering a couple years more on the term of the agreement. And they are also offering to eliminate the buyout if Miles later bolts for UM. Considering UM is unlikely to be looking for another coach for at least 3-5 years, the offer to eliminate the buyout is not much of a concession. But that is what I have heard. And Joe Schad got it all screwed up the way he reported it, making it seem like they were waiving the buyout if LM leaves now. They have not agreed to do that.
I believe the scuttlebutt was also that they would increase their buyout if they should let him go before the end of the contract. Right now their max liability to him is $18.75M if let go without cause.
He has a very favorable termination provision that requires them to pay him out for all remaining years on his contract unless he is terminated for cause. So, by extending the term of the contract by a couple of additional years, LSU is effectively increasing how much they owe him if they terminate him early.
About that whole cooperation with the buyout thing. It was stated in the other late night thread that "sources close to LSU, yadayadayada" confirmed a late night meeting between Miles and LSU in an attempt to keep him in Baton Rouge. The whole "cooperation" is not cooperation at all according to those same sources, but actually the reworking of a new contract in which Les will be compensated slightly more than his old contract with a buyout clause removed, and the length extended, in the hopes that it will keep The Hat at LSU.
Then again, nobody actually knows shit, so I say wait until a press conference is called by Dave Brandon. Yay...this sucks.
That's where I watched last year's game!
Shocking and depressing dearth of Michigan people in Hyde Park...
Just heard Jason Smith joke about the forthcoming press conference for Mighigan and Les Miles on ESPN's All-Night. Said "they were waiting until after the NC game to make the announcement."
I want the coach who is going to work the hardest. I want the coach who would kill himself trying to turn the program back around. Between Hoke and Miles, I think Hoke is that guy. I know the majority of you hate Hoke, and -granted- he is the least proven from the pool. But more than Miles or Patterson, I think Hoke will bring the most fire to this program. I know there are many downsides to Hoke as well, but I think he would overcome them.
But at this point I'd take either. I'm just tired of being an orphan.
I hear and understand your thinking and it makes sense, but recruiting is too important at this point. RR's 2-3 star recruits could not cut it. We need 4-5 star recruits again and Miles (based on his current performance at LSU) gives us the best chance at that. It would take Hoke years to establish that level of credibility if he ever does and then what??? We won't beat OSU with a 3.2 star recruiting average when they are pulling in annual 3.9 star recruiting classes.
I'm not sold on Hoke, but "We won't beat OSU with a 3.2 star recruiting average when they are pulling in annual 3.9 star recruiting classes" is an incredibly faulty assumption.
We might beat them occasionally, but not regularly. Look at the Rivals top 10, these are the same teams who are vying for major conference and national championships year after year. Occasionally the outlier gets in, but recruiting is vital to sustained success. RR was getting "his" guys, but they were niche 3 star players. Please show me where my logic is faulty as I will gladly defer if proven incorrect...
The best teams get the best talent, because they are the best, not the other way around. TCU, Boise State, and Utah kill your logic of "without 5 stars we won't win!!!" What about USC this season? Texas this season? Notre Dame? Recruiting is a big part, and the more talented the players, the easier it is to be great, but that doesn't mean you can't.
Valid points and I don't disagree with your premise. However, TCU, BS, and Utah have played in lesser conferences against lesser talent on a week to week basis. USC is screwed because it got nuked by Bush and Carroll and has a brand new coach this season. Texas lost too much talent but I would not be surprised if next year they are right back in the top 10. Notre Dame is ND and well...their Notre Dame. Coaching is important. Hart, and Long were both 3 star recruits so I acknowledge that it is not all about 4-5 star recruits. What I am saying is that over a 20-25 recruit class, the better the recruits the better your team will do in the long run. It is what it is.
Good points and I agree. The non-BCS teams do play weaker teams but also do seem to step up to the challenge when it comes to playing BCS teams.
Like I said, I think in the end, recruiting is a HUGE part of a great football team and the more talent, the less time it would take to be that great team. That said, I think it's possible to have lesser recruits with more focus on coaching or maybe even just certain dimensions for certain schemes, to become that great team. It'd be much harder, but with a great coach, it's possible. Just as it's possible to have five star recruits everywhere but fail because of poor coaching. Whatever works, works. That said, I do prefer higher rated recruits for obvious reasons.
We agree and I think Miles gets us better recruits for the next several years minimum over Hoke. To your other point I have this question... What horrible injustice have we done to Will Campbell during his time here. He was 5 star and I can't help but think the crazy coaching carousel had hurt him and his development.
Considering that the rest of the defensive line has by and large developed pretty well under Bruce Tall, I think it's more likely that Scout and Rivals overrated him as a DT. Remember too that ESPN had him as a middle of the road OL.
Woops commented on the wrong post. Please disregard
Wisco beat Ohio State with less stars than thars. Dr. Seuss approved.
regularly or occasionally? I don't just want to beat OSU again, I want to dominate them like they are currently doing to us and like we dide back in the 90s... Nobody in the Big Ten has had the upper hand on OSU this past decade (I just threw up in my mouth while typing that sad fact)
Wisco got them two years in a row in Madison, but that's been almost ten years ago now. (One of them was the choking-gate game in '03.)
I understand your points, too, and that is Hoke's biggest downside. But there is this, too: I think that next year we should be better than last year, particularly with a much more experienced defense (and with getting Woolfolk back). I think that, even if this recruiting class is thin, we can survive it. If Hoke comes in and we go 8-4 (which I think is likely), he could quickly establish a good rep. He seems to be a good recruiter, and he did show immediate improvement when he went to SDSU.
I agree. Recruiting is a HUGE part of turning this program back around in a timely manner. I think Les gives us a better shot at doing that than anyone else mentioned. He is a familiar name to recruits. He's known for winning. He will recruit well for UM. I feel better than Hoke would for sure.
I agree that recruiting is extremely important. However, I think hiring a coach that will win and win as quickly as possible will sort of make the recruiting fall into place. Case in point, tOSU. Tressel came in, stabilized the class he had at the time and then started winning like a mofo. At the time he was hired he came from 1A ball. So, I don't think it's necessarily imperative that the hire be a "name." It certainly wouldn't hurt. I just don't think it's nearly as important as other factors.
He currently has the easiest recruiting job in the country. Louisiana has one of the deepest talent pools of any state and most of the kids there have known they'd be attending LSU since they were five years old. Les has no other in state competition for the Louisiana talent. Look at his list of recruits - nearly all of them are from in state. The challenge at Michigan is getting people to leave home and travel 2000 miles (no pun intended) to go to school. I think you'll see when none of his current LSU commitments leave to come to Michigan that at LSU it was much more about location and the institution than it was Les Miles.
Good points but look how MIchigan has fared since Ohio dried up. We can not thrive as a football power if we arent' stealing Ohio's best talent a.k.a. Charles Woodson, away from OSU. Right now, they are unopposed and reaping the benefits. BO, MO, LC, all bled Ohio dry of good talent. I believe Miles will be able to open that back up. RR was not interested in Ohio talent. He was convinced Florida was the primary gold mine.
recruiting classes had 14 players from the state of the Ohio. I will concede that those players were 3* players, with the exception of Touissant and Turner who were 4* players according to Rivals, but saying RR wasn't interested in players from Ohio is incorrect. Actually, if you look at the 2005-2007 classes, the 2009 and 2010 classes had more Ohio players in comparison. Michigan still has some pretty decent ties in Ohio built up, that the next head coach should be able to take advantage of.
And I am not sure if you notice, but the state of Florida does actually have a ton of talent. Don't see trying to establish more recruiting ties there as a bad thing, at all.
While I agree that there isn't much, if any, competition for the recruits in Louisiana, and many of them have grown up with nothing other than playing for LSU on their minds, Les is familiar with this area of the country. He played here and coached here. I assume that he still has a lot of contacts here. I know some of his recruits from the past couple years came from Ohio, Michigan, and Pennsylvania, so he has had some success in the area recently. I really think he will continue to have success with recruiting. That's just something we'll have to wait and see on. We should get a small sample size of how much "weight" the Les Miles name carries in the next 2-3 weeks.
two recruiting classes I am not sure where people get that RR didn't recruit a decent number of 4 or 5 star players. By my count according to Rivals, the last two recruiting classes had 19 total four and five star players. That seems like a decent number. The retention of some of those guys, as well as developing them seemed like the bigger problem.
Second or third time I've heard that. Is this an echo chamber, where the same surmise gets bounced back, or do you know of a source for that rumor?
No source.... It just makes sense, and I would love to see it... DB wants to make a splash and serve notice to not only the B1G but the nation. Getting both would do that, and it would unite the fan-base... and I think he could sell Hoke on being the HC in waiting... Again if money is no object (and according to DB it isn't) then I don't see why this can't happen.... Hoke has said he would work here for free, so pay him to be the DC.... just a thought. I didn't see this posted by others, but if it was then great minds think a like....
I think Brady Hoke really truly does love UM, but I don't think professionally he would do this. He's enjoying success as a head coach at a school he just got to a couple years ago. I don't think he just packs things up and moves to Ann Arbor to take a coordinator position, even if it was promised he'd be the coach in waiting. And who's to say that Les would want him to the be DC? I think it's only fair that you let the new coach pick his staff. You don't want to put limitations on a head coach when hiring them. That's never a good thing. I think history proves that.
not sure "it makes sense." Hoke will be a little hurt that he did not get the HC spot and will not want to take a huge pay cut. I am not saying Miles is the man, but it really does not make sense for Hoke to be coming along with Miles.
He's already 52. If Miles stays 5 years then Hoke is 57...Like the HC in waiting idea ... looking for younger though.
Leaves a head coaching job to be an assistant again when they are succeeding as a HC. Maybe if there was more than 4 years between them and there would be more chance for succession, but not as it is.
The only way someone goes from a Head Coach one year to a DC the next is if they get fired for sucking. Just like GERG.
But I don't think you have to worry about Miles working hard. Unless he shocks by this just being a retirement payday, I don't think it's his style to go half speed. And he'll want to make his mark in Michigan lore. Patterson, who knows? But I don't think that's a worry with Miles.
My gut and his words honoring Bo and his Wolverine ties leads me to believe that he will embrace this challenge 110%. Also, he may be wacky, but he fills a room with his persona and that is so helpful in a recruit's home. I enjoy hearing him talk about Michigan...shoot he even sounds like BO.
If you want the coach that will work the hardest, he was fired last week.
Here lies our Dear Departed
His shovel was sharp
And his will was outstanding.
I don't want the hardest working coach with "fire" in his belly, I want the best coach. Working hard does not make up for average coaching ability. Will Les (or anyone else) be napping during the day? How can they get some of that sweet sweet FIRE?
Jay Leno is often called the hardest working comedian ever, but that doesn't make him a great comedian.
No it doesn't, but it keeps him the Tonight Show and 10 plus million a year. Not bad for a little hard work.
Which supports said argument. A position and a big payday correlates not at all to how good you are. Leno sucks. As my buddy said, "I knew I should have dropped my baby's mama before she got pregnant when she told me she liked Leno more than Letterman." But, buddy did not drop future baby mama, and now he's got monthly payments and insane baby-mama-in-laws. I know: Cool story, bro. However, Cool story, bro + fact = frightening tale of not choosing the best option. Kid is cute, though.
Leno is succeeding. He has far better ratings than anyone else doing the boring thing. That's like saying Hoke would run a boring offense, but win more games than any other team. Because that's what Leno is doing.
You can win a chance to be at the introductory press conference when we announce our new coach
Good news... all signs pointing there will be a press conference to announce someone! But who?
Really, win a trip to the press conference? Man, is this a gimmick or what?
A few weeks ago I wanted JH! LM should incorporate some spread in his offense. I think he can talk DROB in staying along with most of the team. May be he can try to get Hart back from AL. LM may be able to pry some LSU recruits to head north with him. LM will coach for at least 6 to 10 years, just long enough to reload talent and prime thinks up for JH after his SF HC gig is up.
MIles would run a number of different sets. I am sure keeping Robinson would be objective no. 1.
I will be personally demoralized if Robinson transfers, but there is Devin Gardner.
DROB loves the university and it's fans. The only way I see him leaving is if the new coach says I don't want you here to play QB. Don't think that will ever happen I hope!
Crazy that Jefferson only threw 7 TDs all year and LSU won 11 games. If Denard, Devin and Tate all transfer, Jack Kennedy will throw more then 7 TDs.
fact. heard it from my buddy's dad's bro who knows this chick that works at... aw screw it. super late.
Lame living on the west coast when the MGOBOARD is going to bed just as I get out of work.
I'm sure Les Miles' eventual OC could put any of our three quarterbacks to good use.
And make the choice between Rich, Miles, Hoke and Harbaugh. If RR is better than the rest of this list, especially with others coming at the cost of a recruiting class, Brandon screwed the pooch.
Never would have guessed DB liked it that way.
Objectively, seeing how RR's teams at Michigan did the past three years, it is hard to say he was the right hire three years ago. That said, having invested three years and endured the worst of the pain, I think DB should have given him one more year to see if he could have pulled it all together (including a respectable defense). DB apparently decided he had seen enough.
Knowing everything we know now, I would rank the coaches as Miles, Harbaugh, RR, Hoke though I might hire Harbaugh over Miles because he is 11 years younger.
How awesome would it be for Les to stand up at halftime of the Basketball game Wednesday night against Ohio State and say that in 317 days our boys will make us proud and once again beat that team from Ohio. A total mock of Jim Tressel, but I think it would be awesome and do a lot to help the morale of the team and fans.
The Hat currently leads 1-0.
Vest beat him when he(Les) was at OK st. in 2004 33-7 in the Alamo bowl.
Now that's what I call a first post
Your misfortune was to post while points are temporarily disabled. Welcome to the MGOBOARD. If you recall, when Miles was cold-offered (read: NOT offered) the Michigan job in 2007, he said something along the lines of 'Michigan will beat that team again.'
Patterson has been my first choice all along for multiple reasons: excellent defense, recruiting ties to Texas, scheme matching existing talent, excellent defense, and excellent defense... he seems somewhat unlikely to me, though, since he signed a 2 year extension after the M job opened up.
I understand your concerns, but there are some significant differences:
1. Patterson is a DEFENSIVE guy who has been flexible with his offense, which has morphed into somewhat of a run-based spread that would be an ideal fit for our personnel. He offers minimal transition along with help where it's needed most (defense).
2. He has a 10-year track record of consistent success and, as the Mathlete noted in his breakdown of candidates, his teams have gotten better EVERY season during his tenure. No three-win outliers or rebuilding years or arguments that he lucked into a Pat White/Steve Slaton combo or anything like that.
All in all, I think Patterson would be the best hire both short term and long term.
Established coach...great defensive mind...coached Ehrlacher..runs 3-3-5. Proven winner...younger than MIles
Paterson runs a 4-2-5 defense.
His contract has no buyout if he leaves (i.e. he does not owe TCU anything), though the word is he also received a raise to $3 MM per year and we clearly will have to offer a compensation package higher than that.
My feeling is he is waiting for the Texas job to open up. That said, I might be wrong and Michigan has way better facilities than TCU, we play iconic teams (PSU, ND, OSU) and his resume would only be enhanced if he successfully turns the Michigan program around. If Michigan were to offer him a 5 year deal at $4 MM per year along with a budget to hire elite level coordinators and assistant coaches, he might just be willing to leave Ft. Worth for sunny A2. Would TCU match that offer financially? I don't know, but it would be difficult given the relatively small size of their school and athletic department budget.
word down here is TCU has plenty of money. It is believed they have plenty of money to pay whatever costs needed to keep Patterson.
Well, if that is true and TCU is willing to pay more than we are, then he is unlikely to come. I had just heard that post-Rose Bowl he received a bump up to about $3 MM per year. I would offer $4 MM along with top tier $$ for staff and if TCU meets or beats the offer then he probably turns us down. I still think it is worth a shot.
Is larger than ours.
we don't have to copy OSU. I like the idea of an annoucement at the bball game, but let's use our own words
We don't want to copy them, just beat the bejeezus out of them
I still like the idea of Les pulling out a samurai sword and beheading That Matta on the court, but that's just me.
hell lets have him address the student body at a hockey game. we know OSU cant top us in hockey and Miles, if he is the guy, reminds me of a hockey player personality!
Anyone know what happened to TigerDroppings?
has been down since about 11:30 PM. Obviously lots of traffic and interest.
One of the few times one would expect to hear this question.
I have now watched video of an airplane doing nothing at an airport in Baton Rouge, LA, followed by a video interview of a guy who owns a restaurant there called VooDoo Barbeque, followed by some newscasters.
And while this semi-information was apparently newsworthy enough to make BR TV, not one person knew anything other than Les Miles ate at this restarant and Brandon was on the plane at some point.
There was no news. And yet, like a complete idiot, I sat at my computer transfixed, as though I was actually learning something or participating in something important.
Now I know of peoples' speculations on a message board called Tiger Droppings. Why do I need to know this? This doesn't affecet my life in any way.
Hello, my name is Les (really) and I'm a UM rumor addict.
i was going to say Wolverine Hell but I realized I needed to leave that for when DB announces Brady Hoke as our next head coach.
Heres an update
FYI: Les Miles met w Michigan tonight but Michigan officials left without Miles and without a resolution. Not yes, not no. (Pat Forde - ESPN)
Further article detailing whats going on...
That accurately reflects the state of play, but about fifteen people beat Forde to the punch.
Nice up-to-date information with links. +1 to you if I could.
Still holding out hope on this one!
Also: Hoke WANTS this job for 3 square meals a day. He wants this because this is all he's worked for. To be honest, I want that fire! I dont want money to be the only thing- I want passion in the program. RR had it - just couldnt win fast.
I just want it in a coach whose résumé actually indicates he deserves the job.
I think DB has completed his interview process and will make a decision on those who are interested. I'm sure there were a few interviews we are not aware of! I expect the final decision will be on Wednesday. I'm starting to think it may be Brady Hoke. This is the coach DB wanted all along. Though, I'm hoping for a big surprise! Though I doubt! Between Hoke and Miles, I would take Miles.
If so, nicely done. If not, man you really like exclamation points.
What's most interesting to me is not the Miles coverage, but the seeming lack of coverage elsewhere. Now, I get that Miles is the bigger fish and flashier hire, so it makes sense why we're tracking planes in and out of Baton Rouge. What about other interviews though? Perhaps the flight that was tracked to Phoenix the other day was a meeting between DB and Hoke? Or someone else even. Thing is, has Brady Hoke come out and said (or even been asked if) he will speak to Michigan a la Les Miles? LSU's AD was asked and answered honestly that they had been contacted by Michigan, but there's nothing from SDSU's AD that says whether contact has been made. The fact that this is so public with Miles--and yet to elicit anything approaching a 'no,' unlike 3 years ago--leads me to believe that at this point the job truly is his so long as he wants it.
Maybe my brain is just mushy at this point.
took himself out of the running. According to the FP this morning
As the radio program was signing off, Mike Tirico asked Gruden whether he would entertain any job offers this off-season.
"No, heck no," Gruden answered. "I'll be back."
Sorry can't provide link..It sets off sites spam filters. Looks like it's Miles unless we can pull off getting Patterson.
is based in Dallas. Perhaps that's what the DBs stop there was for...to set up the framework of a contract. I'm not 100% pleased about that. I'd rather have a younger, established coach. But I can get behind Miles...we'll just be doing this again sooner than I would like, b/c if Miles coaches 13 years for us like Carr did, he'll be 70.
What, you don't want Michigan to have a JoePa???!!!
(...I don't either)