Kansas State Football Players Boycott All Football Related Activities
I think we’re about to see just how much power the players can exercise because they just put K-State over a barrel.
A K-State student tweeted something in poor taste regarding George Floyd and the team want the administration to take action.
The tweet.
I have to agree, he has a right to an education. Good luck getting a job though.
He probably already has a GoFundMe with 250k in donations.
he has a right to an education, thats what Liberty was set up for
You have a right to a K-12 education, not a college one. In case you haven’t noticed there are millions of people who, for whatever reason, don’t go to college and there is no law in place saying a university has to accept someone because that person really really wants to go there.
I meant jerry falwells liberty, it was a joke
Well,yeah. What he said was incredibly stupid and harmful to others and himself.
He is going to pay dearly for his comments.
Unfortunately the reaction to his tweet will probably be a boon to him based on his interests and pursuits.
No, he doesn't have a "right to an education" at KSU - he completed his educational 'right' when he graduated high school. He's paying (theoretically) for his schooling at KSU, and they are under no obligation to accept his money. While he has the freedom of speech, KSU can damn well determine that he's gone way too far beyond whatever school conduct rules they may have.
This guy seems like a Grade A Prime asshole. I wouldn't be sad for him if a group of people beat the ever loving shit out of him. Or worse. People like that, I just don't care about...
While he has the freedom of speech, KSU can damn well determine that he's gone way too far beyond whatever school conduct rules they may have.
No, they can't. KSU is a public institution. It is literally a violation of the law for them to discipline a student for his speech outside of a few very limited exceptions like an actual threat of violence. Inasmuch as their student code provides for discipline based on speech, it is unconstitutional.
I've been looking at that "Or worse." part for a few minutes and I'm pretty sure that's psychotic. It's hard for me to process that. Are you really hoping someone would maim or kill him ?
Please talk to a counselor.
You're reading what you want to read. I said nothing about 'hope' - what I said is that I wouldn't care. And I stand by that. People like him are the ones that caused ~600,000 deaths in the Civil War. People like him are the ones that drag people behind pickup trucks. People like him are the ones that burn crosses while wearing white robes.
You can care about his health and safety all you want, I'm not going to. I'll defend his right to free speech (and, as a veteran, have done so), but I will not defend him as a person. He is everything that is wrong with society - racist, xenophobic, close-minded, and intolerant of anything he doesn't like. I'm not the one that needs a counselor.
So you're in the political party that really, really, passionately cares about humans. Except when they say something you despise, then they can - quite literally, and you stand by this - be maimed or killed right in front of you and you wouldn't feel a thing.
Today is a day to reevaluate your views. This isn't like you. And though I despise the two party system and think picking one or the other is silly, this is not at all what your political party is supposed to stand for.
This person wrote something. Words. What about a felon who's gone to prison for harming someone physically? Does your emotionless viewing of their maiming or death apply there as well? Capital punishment is good to go?
I don't belong to a political party, but, FWIW, I have moved further left away from center as the Rep Party has moved further right. I'd say I'm more of a natural conservative (if such a thing exists) that has evolved to understand everyone should be treated fairly. I don't subscribe to to whatever it is that the Rep's have become, and am in favor of a turn to the left to undue the crap Bill Barr and company have wrought against the Constitution. I hope that clears up your thoughts about my political views, and I accept your views (whatever they may be).
As for the creep in question, I've said I support his right to say whatever he wants. I will also support the prosecution of people that assault him. I will not care if he's hurt. His health and well-being are not my concern. I would be disgusted in such an occurrence, however, if he were some random guy that said nothing before getting beat down. But that isn't the case. He's taunting people, for no reason other than because he can. I have no respect for that. Zero. It reminds me of the old lady (92 yo?) in Oregon a couple weeks back, that got shoved into a fire hydrant by some asshole. No care for that guy, either.
And yes, I do support capitol punishment for some criminal acts. And also think it's overused and often applied cavalierly...
Well, I think you for clarifying your views. They are awful, however. I don't think you have any idea what maiming or killing is like. You lack human decency if you would lack emotion for such a fate befalling this person for such a comment. And there millions of people on this planet who have done and said much worse. So you'd be willing to watch a lot of horror without caring. I actually don't believe you would, but if you did, then yes you would be psychotic.
I can think of at least 5 organizations that will give him a job because of those comments. TPUSA for starters.
Every civil society draws lines on every sort of issue. Most agree that unfettered anarchy is not a good and reasonable path to allow. This is a slope that is more than "slippery".
Yes, but when they advertise their racism, they also earn the right to face consequences.
So if a student goes up to a female professor and says in front of the whole class “You’re a dirty fucking whore.....Ha, ha just joking!” You’re saying the school should/would just say “Just a joke folks, no action necessary on our part”?
Can’t see the text of his tweet above so here it is.
That’s a pretty horrendous and offensive thing to say, but man, I just don’t see how a public university can justify expelling someone over that tweet (edit: to clarify my point here isn’t about content, it’s more about the thought process of the U combing through all students social media, or having to to field complaints from other students, to look for items that cross a certain offense threshold and judge them). Maybe the closest thing I can remember was the OU frat with the racist song and I think those guys got expelled (am I remembering that correctly?). I guess KSU will have to weigh the football revenue loss vs the inevitable settlement from the lawsuit this student will bring once expelled. Besides the money, even if you agree with the team in this specific case, that’s some wild precedent to set.
edit: I’m also viewing this in a vacuum of the single tweet. I see above the guy might be a leader of a hate group. He probably should have been intervened with and disciplined before this tweet if that’s the case.
Honestly, university "code of conduct" agreements at most schools really don't give much guarantee of a true due process. They have a wide latitude for dismissing students (which is not necessarily a good thing).
I won't speak to this case specifically without knowing more details - except to say that the comment is a really a**hole thing to say.
Honestly, university "code of conduct" agreements at most schools really don't give much guarantee of a true due process. They have a wide latitude for dismissing students.
That's true in some cases for some offenses. But at a public institution like Kansas State, if the code of conduct agreements allow for dismissal based on speech, they are unconstitutional and are subject to being overturned in court.
I agree the comment is horrific. KSU could just do what Oklahoma did a few years ago and roll the dice by disciplining him. As I understand it, the Oklahoma students were so cowed and ashamed that they didn't really contest their expulsion. But if the student instead decides to sue, then the University will lose. The First Amendment precedents are very clear on that point.
Wouldn't his pattern of public speech on social media and reported associations weigh in ksu's favor in calling him a disruptive presence at the school?
At some point there has to be a line beyond which they can cite a pattern of hate speech?
If the matter went to court, I think the University would probably argue the Tinker test is applicable and that they were acting to prevent substantial disruption in the educational environment. But that argument has some problems.
First, I would note that "hate speech" is not a legally recognized category. The term is ubiquitous in journalistic and academic debates, but there is no hate speech exception to the First Amendment. If anything, I might think that the pattern of hate speech would work against KSU, because it would prove that previous instances of such speech did not cause substantial disruption, and with Tinker, disruption is what matters.
But even if they could prove substantial disruption this time, the applicability of the Tinker test to the University setting is itself heavily contested. It was originally meant to govern grade school students, and I actually was not aware that it had been applied to Universities at all until today. It seems that some courts have done so while others have disagreed.
If the court refuses to adopt the Tinker framework, then the case is over. KSU loses. Outside of the school environment, content discrimination in speech restrictions is heavily disfavored.
Even if this particular one didn't quite meet that bar, his others sure did. He's a lost cause.
OU kicked out a bunch of guys for singing racist songs. KSU can definitely step up here.
Although the idea of an entire campus shunning him until he withdraws sounds pretty good too.
Lost cause--lol.
[Edit: I thought Putin was making a pun on "lost cause," which is also an old pro-Confederate spin on the Civil War. Not sure if that was clear.]
I agree HP, as I alluded to in the edit of my comment, I think his body of work will justify his expulsion. That said, it would be an interesting thought experiment if this were his only tweet. Does the U cave to the football team? Who’s job does it become going forward to judge the consequence of each tweet that is deemed offensive? Is that a new admin role they’d have to role out? Or does the U only address it if athletes are holding out?
Yeah--I think the response is very different if the kid doesn't have the earlier baggage. I mentioned below that if it was a kid who tweeted it and came to realize how bad it was, the university would likely give him a chance to make amends and stick around. But I think the specifics of this case make that unlikely. It will definitely be interesting to see how Kansas State proceeds.
The university should not allow him back on campus for his personal well being. What ever side you’re on, to tweet a disparaging comment about a man who was murdered is disgusting.
Yeah neg my comment above and Think it’s dumb or stupid or whatever, but put this kid in the middle of any college campus with drunk students who know who he is. The Michigan state football team would make quicker work of him than they did the MSU hockey team. Lawsuit waiting to happen. Neg away morans
He deserves to be expelled. However, I don’t think he will be because it would be hard to prove that he was being sarcastic.
It’s not hard. See my post above. Dude has a documented track record of being a white nationalist.
Deserves, but probably can’t be w/o the school opening itself up to a lawsuit.
I know this is wrong to say and feel, but I really wish the action taken against this racist little shit was a vicious ass-beating by the white, black, and other members of the football team
Yep...force him to walk on with the team. He can return punts for the practice squad.
Where's that Water Boy student manager hit gif when you need it.
Lol. Wasn’t that a Michigan reference in that movie? Or was that the towel boy?
It was the towel boy that's why I couldn't find it. But it doesn't matter because I can't figure out how to post a gif to this site anymore.
oklahoma drill against the entire team would be something. From what this dude looks like the kicker would deliver a hit that would deliver his soul back to the devil
Disgusting quote. Really interesting to witness what's going on, however, in defining what is "free speech", however disgusting it may be, and what is "hate speech", that is threatening to others.
Further, the fact that 1 quote from 1 student asshole can threaten the willingness of an entire P5 CFB team's willingness to compete/participate in the sport is fascinating.
I'd force him to walk on with the team - see how he enjoys returning punts in practice.
It's going to be a mess. There are apparently some K-State students who have tweeted BACK at the original student with actual threats against his life (deleted but archived tweets).
I'm not a lawyer, but I think one could make a case that McNeil'a tweet isn't worthy of expulsion (protected by free speech) but the other students tweets are worthy of expulsion (explicit threats).
Yeesh .......
I am a lawyer. His tweet was not a threat, and “hate speech” is not a thing under the law.
Yet...and, when it's here, it will be defined in terms acceptable to those in power as it always is when governments begin going down that road.
You disagree with me. That's hate speech.
They’d have to amend the Constitution. I absolutely believe this country will break up before we can get 3/4 of the states to agree on anything anymore.
If there's one thing I've learned in seven years of teaching, it's that white males named Jaden tend to be a little "off" (but definitely not as unstable as Cadens).
If this is your child's name, I'm kidding.
I don’t know why, but this reminded me of the old Michigan Tech joke:
person 1: the only people that go to Michigan Tech are hookers and hockey players
person 2: my wife went to Michigan Tech
person 1: What position did she play?
This is a tough choice....
1. 100 football players of various races and backgrounds who represent the school on a national / global basis and bring in hundreds of millions of USD to the school on an annual basis.
or
2. Douchebag asshole who should be punched in the face for purposely divisive and offensive comments.
What should KSU do? /s
And yes, the douchebag has the right to make that comment but he also needs to live with the consequences of his words. I am not a violent person, but if he said that within earshot of me, I would punch in the face as hard as I can.
Guessing KState is going through the legal assessment of what expelling him would mean from a protected speech perspective. I’m guessing they’ll land on the side of expulsion, but I don’t know the legal nuance of whether attendance at public university is protected.
I'm guessing the legal approach here is that it is a form of hate speech. Given the quote is not a stand-alone and he has a history of divisive rhetoric and involvement in bigotry, it will probably be easier to build the expulsion case against him.
IE, his history will not allow his defense to be ("I made a joke in poor taste, I regret it, so sorry")
As disgusting as this quote is, some of his prior statements and involvements are actually more in line with "hate speech". He's build quite the POS portfolio for himself.
And if not for his earlier actions and comments, he might be given the chance to make a public apology, go through some training, etc. But it sounds like he wouldn't agree to any such conditions, OR there would be reason to doubt his sincerity if he did agree to those conditions.