Juwan's clock is ticking
I'm sure I'll get negged, but this has to be said. Between the temper, the complete lack of team effort, inability to adjust, inability to teach guards to feed the post, no obvious development through long stretches of practice, and just awful strategy, he's on the hot seat.
December 29th, 2022 at 9:52 PM ^
you're kinda right about one of your statements. I'll let you guess which one
December 29th, 2022 at 9:54 PM ^
What's your defense of him?
December 29th, 2022 at 10:36 PM ^
He is right about the comment that he will get negged.
December 29th, 2022 at 11:42 PM ^
And you are wrong. Posbang me. Lord help us.
December 29th, 2022 at 10:45 PM ^
Michigan doesn’t fire head coaches, nevertheless alums, mid season. Juwan will get another year. That is guaranteed.
The spark has faded and the Wisconsin game took something away. Idk. Needs to be a shake up this off season. I still trust in Juwan.
It’s fairly obvious tho that Hunter is not a leader. At all. Hasn’t improved. Regressed. Shit talks and can’t back it up.
December 29th, 2022 at 11:07 PM ^
HD is barely better then he was as a freshman. He was an older freshman and just doesn't have much to improve upon. Also this team lost every player except HD that averaged 20 plus minutes last season. Really T.Will is the only guy with really any playing experience on this team along with HD. We have 2 freshmen starting and Kobe along with TW who is more of a bench player then starter. We lose Frankie Collins which did hurt and then we lose depth at PG with JL out for season.
As far as Barnes and Cheddar they are essentially freshmen also. This team is young also but also isn't as talented as some of the past teams. If you look and see all the guys we just missed out on are tearing it up at other places so if we got 1 or 2 of those guys this team would be different. Not getting Shannon hurt way more then we know. An elite defender which we need and an athlete that can score and shoot decently.
Also this team plays to the level of it's opponents losing to the good teams close except the ASU game and only really blowing out one or two teams while playing everyone else close.
So this season could go one or two ways they could help as they get older and more use to playing with each other or put their heads down and give up. They can still make the tournament but that means winning probably 13 to 14 games in the big ten.
December 29th, 2022 at 11:43 PM ^
December 30th, 2022 at 6:58 AM ^
Bullshit.
What is there to develop?
He's always been the same player. He added a little bit of a right hand and he can make an occasional 3 now. But there was no room to grow.
Now if Diabate was here on year 3 and looked the same as year 1...that would've been a huge issue.
But Hunter was never going to improve enough to be drafted.
December 30th, 2022 at 9:07 AM ^
You clearly don't understand the game as it pertains to big men. There's a lot to develop still. His footwork and thus any post moves. His hustle and rebounding position. Defensive challenges. And finally, his body. He is soft. I guess he gets to skip Camp Sanderson.
Hunter is uninspired by coach. He just is. Howard is failing him.
December 29th, 2022 at 11:49 PM ^
I keep hearing people say things like I belive in Juwan, or I trust in Juwan. I just don't understand how anyone make those comments. What are you drawing on? When in his coaching career has he shown you something to make you trust him? I'll admit his first 2 years were great. He was lucky to inherit some talent and he also recruited Dickinson, and had some early success with the transfer portal. But that said Brady Hoke could of coached those teams.
Dude has no experience as a head coach. I realize he was some kind of assistant/ hype man coach at the Miami Heat. I trust that the pro players liked him. He was a decent NBA journey man. But I still don't understand people saying they trust him or believe in him.
I'll say I hope he figures it out and I hope he becomes a good coach. I'm losing faith.
December 30th, 2022 at 12:24 AM ^
He needs to surround himself with new guys i think. Honestly, would Beilien consider some kind of analyst role, it seems he still loves to program, but I know he’s only ever been a head man.
From watching the team the last 2 years, IMO, the things that need to be addressed immediately are…
- guard development !!
- 3 point shooting consistency
- defensive consistency
- Free throw shooting consistency
- defensive rebounding consistency
….I’m seeing a pattern here
I believe players love him. I believe he knows the game, he knows post play, and he knows how to connect with the players on their level. I don’t believe he is a great details guy though, and it seems to me he needs to surround himself with some details guys. I’m not sure Martelli is a details guy either, as much as everyone seems to like him…….At minimum, have some consulting sessions with Belien, and don’t just rely on recruiting/portal hits and misses. We need to go back to a program that develops players, and finds a big role for 5 stars if we have one or 2 on the roster.
December 30th, 2022 at 2:04 AM ^
Your details point also shows why this team is so frustrating. He’s a big game coach. His teams have typically held their own pretty well against better teams, minus a few clunkers (which is expected for any team). It doesn’t make sense why we can barely lose to an excellent Virginia team, but not beat Central. It’s a lack of attention to detail, specifically against worse teams. Minus the 2020-21 team, who dominated seemingly everybody, this is a common theme.
December 30th, 2022 at 7:11 AM ^
I've been saying this about Hunter for 2 years.
So many on this board and beyond thought that shit talking stuff was cute. The NIL whining and challenging administration, they had his back.
Now everyone is starting to turn on him and he's the same kid he's always been (for better or worse).
Folks need to keep that same energy.
I've said it before...Hunter is Lewan or Cade McNamara. He's a "Saturday's are for the boys," and podcast/social media I'll be edgy and say what I want guy.
He's a guy fans will root for when things are going well but will hate when things aren't going as planned. And if he played for anyone else they'd despise him (regardless of how he's playing).
He's not the guy you want leading your locker room culture. In fact, when he leaves, he's the guy everyone will blame when other players start to perform better.
I said if Michigan was going to be any good this year...he can't be the best player on the team. The best player in basketball often sets the culture. This can never be "Hunter Dickinson's team." If he's the best, you better have an Eli Brooks and even that will barely be enough.
You need someone better AND Eli Brooks (or Chaundee Brown).
A bunch of low spades. I've said it ove and over.
Put someone better (Trey Burke) and a vocal leader who isn't going to put up with Hunter's shit even if he's not as good as Hunter (Chaundee Brown...the old Draymond/Warriors role) and this team is undefeated or has 1 loss...and they're headed to a Final 4.
2 players and one isn't even a starter, 2 players and this team is drastically different, and Hunter is looked at different and playing better in a different role.
December 30th, 2022 at 11:00 AM ^
Exactly. Hunter is a terrible leader. People talk about Juwan not developing him enough, but there's plenty of track record of other guys developing under Juwan. Look at what Bam Adebayo or Hassan Whiteside have to say about how Juwan developed them. Look at how X developed. Franz's improvement from freshman year to sophomore year. Kobe's improvement we're watching right now. Austin Davis, Teske, Eli, Diabate. These are all guys who clearly improved under Howard's leadership of the program. You even could see small improvements from Hunter last year.
Still, Hunter is the outlier. Some players are not reachable and that's the category I put Hunter in. He's a selfish player. See his comments last year about DJ. See his comment of "I'll take however long I want to get post position" this year. You need guys like Livers, Franz, Eli, or Chaundee to keep Hunter from even trying to be a vocal leader. Him in a leadership position is not good at all.
Now, we'll probably see one of Hunter's best efforts on Sunday. Not because he cares more all of a sudden, but because of his feeling of being slighted by Maryland's recruiting of him. All about Hunter, all the time. This is basically what the football team was going through with players now coming out and talking about changing the culture away from me-first players.
December 29th, 2022 at 11:03 PM ^
I’ll go…
December is meaningless. (Ed: nothing is ever completely meaningless) It’s how you finish. And Howard so far finishes strong no matter how things look in Dec or Jan.
His record:
2020 Tournament Cancelled
2021 Elite 8
2022 Sweet 16
No AD would ever evaluate a program in December. Coaches are still developing their team and players.
Or to rephrase my comments above in support of a post later in this thread, only an idiot would evaluate a program in December.
December 29th, 2022 at 11:30 PM ^
December isn’t meaningless when a team has such a disastrous loss that it drastically reduces their chances of making the tournament. Losing to a #300-ranked team on kenpom is such a loss.
December 30th, 2022 at 12:00 AM ^
Yup quad 4 losses hurt especially for bubble teams.
December 30th, 2022 at 10:09 AM ^
Of course, nothing is ever completely meaningless. But look at top programs around the country these days. You’re either Kentucky and you have a bunch of one and done freshman or you have three upperclassmen transfers. In December you’re still trying to get your team to work as a team and develop your culture. My main point is …
You don’t judge a program in December.
You guys can nit pic all you want about close loses to top 10 teams or bottom 10 teams. You can cherry pick criticisms about inherited players or luck. You can make all the excuses you want for his success. But the bottom line and main point is we have no idea what this team looks like until March.
Anybody who disagrees with that last point has never successfully had to build and lead a team before.
Kipling:
If you can keep your head when all about you
Are losing theirs and blaming it on you, …
December 30th, 2022 at 1:23 PM ^
We aren’t even a bubble team at this point.
Zero chance they make the tourney.
December 30th, 2022 at 12:12 AM ^
At home no less...
December 30th, 2022 at 2:01 AM ^
The team doesn’t make the tournament last year if their name isn’t Michigan and is literally a non-miraclulous performance from Frankie Collins away from being eliminated by Colorado State in the first round last year.
His 2020-21 team? Absolutely phenomenal but they did slouch a little bit at the end of the regular seasons. The same thing occurred with his 2019 and 2021 teams. They don’t seem to get red hot at the end of the year like people say they do.
December 30th, 2022 at 9:10 AM ^
This is the wrong take.
December 30th, 2022 at 1:06 AM ^
When you are better at every position and still lose it says something
December 29th, 2022 at 9:54 PM ^
No, it's not.
December 29th, 2022 at 10:10 PM ^
Well, in a sense, all of our clocks are ticking.
December 29th, 2022 at 10:14 PM ^
The 19-20 season started off with the team playing with their hair on fire and then played pretty “meh” from December 3rd on.
The 21-22 season was entirely “meh” but for the fact they blasted MSU once and won their round of 32 game. Let’s call it “meh” plus.
22-23 could very well turn into a total clown show at this rate. Do a hypothetical with me and let’s say that actually happens. That leaves you with a “meh”, a great season, a “meh” plus and a clown show.
I’d say Hoke went from very good (not great) his first year to “meh” to “meh” negative to clown show. He was unceremoniously canned and rightfully so. I don’t think Howard deserves to be canned regardless of how this season turns out because he does have a better track compared to Hoke but at the same time a “meh” 2024 and you absolutely have to think about making a move.
December 29th, 2022 at 10:39 PM ^
The difference being Howard was handed a top program that was firing on all cylinders, Hoke was handed a clown show.
December 29th, 2022 at 11:00 PM ^
Hoke was actually handed a decent team and just won with a foundation RR built after he was handed a clown show. Hoke then turned us back into a clown show.
Howard’s teams seem to be regressing every year. You do have to start to question what is going on with the program especially after dropping a game to a crappy team at home tonight
December 30th, 2022 at 12:32 AM ^
Correction: Hoke was handed Denard Robinson, David Molk, and a couple little slot receivers.
Hoke actually fixed the defense and upped the recruiting as well. Eventually he cratered the offense though.
His 2 main defensive anchors on the line were both Carr recruits.
RRod, in my mind, only gets credit for identifying Denard as a QB and getting him, and somewhat for Jeremy Gallon.
—- Bi-annual Hoke/RRod soap box over, back to our scheduled basketball discussion —-
December 31st, 2022 at 10:22 AM ^
“Decent team”
Thats hilarious. They got train wrecked by every team with a pulse they played.
December 29th, 2022 at 10:21 PM ^
Juwan inherited top 5 to top 10 program and in year 4 we are in dog fights with shit teams. Not acceptable. It’s ticking.
December 30th, 2022 at 8:05 AM ^
I agree. There's no reason that garbage teams like CMU, Lipscomb, Eastern, or Ohio are competitive, much less CMU beating us.
Maybe it's just a question of "playing to the level of the competition," but even that says something about the coaching. Good teams have the discipline needed to do the little things right, no matter who the opponent. Little things like... um... let's see... play defense and rebound. Undisciplined teams can't rely on always winning by "flipping the switch."
And, to my mind, unless a kid shows up on campus with it already, discipline comes from coaching. In any event, the conference schedule will tell the story.
The timer hasn't been set on the clock, but I do think it's been started and is ticking.
December 29th, 2022 at 9:54 PM ^
Hes definitely on the hot seat but i guarantee Juwan will be the head coach next season barring another anger issue. 2023-2024 will be make or break. Enjoy this season for what it is and hope for some exciting upsets
December 29th, 2022 at 9:59 PM ^
You are probably right, but what if we go, say 5-15 in the Big Ten, would you still say another year is certain? I hope we don't have to find out.
December 29th, 2022 at 10:02 PM ^
I have a very difficult time seeing us winning more than 6 or 7 Big Ten games. Tournament is definitely a pipe dream at this point. We’re not even going to make the NIT. That said, even Beilein had some bad seasons. Juwan isn’t on the hot seat yet, but it’s definitely not trending in a positive direction.
December 29th, 2022 at 10:18 PM ^
Beilein did not have bad seasons after year 3. The program Beilein took over was in much worse shape than what Howard took over. Really night and day.
His worst season was 16-16 in 2014-15.
so no, Beilein’s teams generally got better throughout his Michigan coaching career.
December 29th, 2022 at 10:19 PM ^
Are you saying that 16-16 wasn't a bad season?
December 29th, 2022 at 10:22 PM ^
Caris getting hurt killed that team.
December 29th, 2022 at 10:41 PM ^
This team lost its PG.
December 29th, 2022 at 10:46 PM ^
He was terrible. Not sure that qualifies as the same thing.
December 29th, 2022 at 10:56 PM ^
People said the same things about Mike Smith and DeVante Jones at the beginning of the year. Collins leaving made this a pretty severe blow.
December 29th, 2022 at 11:27 PM ^
Devante Jones was terrible. What the hell did you watch
December 30th, 2022 at 12:06 AM ^
No one said Mike Smith was terrible. He was lucky to have legit talent around him. But Jones was terrible, as is Llewellyn. I've never seen Michigan point guards repeatedly dribble the ball off their foot out of bounds. They both had some John Ritter comedy moments. It'd a shame Juwan has to resort to those types of PG at a Blue Blood.
December 30th, 2022 at 12:06 AM ^
No one said Mike Smith was terrible. He was lucky to have legit talent around him. But Jones was terrible, as is Llewellyn. I've never seen Michigan point guards repeatedly dribble the ball off their foot out of bounds. They both had some John Ritter comedy moments. It's a shame Juwan has to resort to those types of PG at a Blue Blood. I'm starting to think elite point guards don't want to come play for Juwan Howard. Can you blame them?
December 30th, 2022 at 1:24 AM ^
Did you really compare losing a 1st year transfer PG who was playing terribly, shooting like 30% from the field to losing a junior Caris Levert, best player on the team and a 1st round NBA draft pick?
December 29th, 2022 at 10:46 PM ^
That 2014-2015 team also took a Final 4 MSU team @ the Breslin and National Runner Up Wisconsin to OT both without Caris LeVert. Comparing Beilein's 16-16 season to Juwan's disaster is not remotely close.
December 29th, 2022 at 11:45 PM ^
I want to make sure you see my response to your goofy post from the Michigan vs CMU game thread...
Denarded wrote: "Let me help your 70 IQ with some perspective on the 2014/2015 season under Beilein"
FUCKING LOL!
You need to either improve your reading comprehension or get reading glasses. I very CLEARLY typed 2016 (which is the 2015-16 season where we got into the NCAAT via play-in).
It's hilarious when condescending posters like you embarrass yourself.
My post for posterity: https://mgoblog.com/comment/244765782#comment-244765782
December 29th, 2022 at 11:48 PM ^
Beilein had bad teams ascending
Howard has good teams descending.
December 30th, 2022 at 8:22 AM ^
My guess is out of those 15 losses, there's an anger issue in one of those.
December 29th, 2022 at 10:01 PM ^
He's not going to get fired this year barring anything unforeseen. But Jett is going leave as a lottery pick or close. And Hunter seems disengaged even though he can probably make more via NIL than in Europe. Either way, our roster will be worse next year and we've already played our way out of the tournament this year. There doesn't seem to be light at the end of the tunnel.