Interesting information in the Thamel expects Big Ten to act thread
Original OP:
This isn't my information, and I asked the user to post a thread about it, but I feel that it is important enough for its own threat. The information is buried deep in a thread moving down the board and off the front page.
Scroll down to near the end of the Thamel expects the Big Ten to act in the next 48-72 hours thread. When it was originally posted it was on page 3 just before the time change on Saturday night/Sunday morning.
Sorry to be cryptic but since it wasn't my information, I didn't want to post it but again, I feel it's important to draw attention to.
Bluesince89's quite sound retort:
I'm going to call bullshit on the original post.
1) The source is from the law firm working on the case? So the attorney(s) just breached attorney-client privilege and a host of ethics rules in their state (they're all pretty much the same) in addition to firm policy to leak this to their buddy. I've worked on some pretty high-profile, media intense cases in my career and never once have I thought, "let me tell my buddies ahead of time so they know how cool I am." You know why? Because as valuable as I am to my firm, that's a sure fire way to get fired because no clients will trust you after that.
2) "The firm is working this weekend to determine whether to file the suit in local, state, or federal court as reaction time is critical." Ahh yes, so they're debating whether to ask for an injunction against the Big 10 Conference in the 15th District Municipal Court in Ann Arbor? Or in the Rosemont, Illinois equivalent? Yea, no. This suit, if filed, is landing in Federal court (E.D. Mich. or N.D. Ill.), Washtenaw County Circuit Court, or Cook County Circuit Court. Probably E.D. Mich. all things considered. If the firm is seriously debating anything else other than that, they're morons but I know that's not true because UMich hires the absolute best of the best for their biggest cases. The local Big Michigan firms usually don't make the cut unless they're one of the national firms with a Detroit or Ann Arbor Office (Jones Day, Foley, Schiff Harden or whatever their new name is, Troutman Pepper, etc.)
3) An immediate stay of the suspension? It's not an appeal.
4) He's also signaling their strategy so you can share it on a message board? Not just a lawsuit is coming, but this is what we're doing. I could see leaking it to a media outlet, but comon.
None of this passes the smell test of anything reputable.
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MOD EDIT - I will leave the thread for a bit as it is long buried now, but I want everyone to see the reply of an experienced trial attorney to the OP. - LSA
November 5th, 2023 at 7:07 AM ^
This isn’t/wasn’t buried or missed
November 5th, 2023 at 7:14 AM ^
My bad. That was the first and only place where I have seen a definitive suspension, when, for how long and a definitive Michigan response.
November 5th, 2023 at 7:31 AM ^
I did not see that one. It was well after I checked that thread. I went back and read it. So, thank you for posting it. +1.
It is insane that B1G would do something like this without having no proof of a coach's involvement. It is the world we live in where shitty media, cancel culture and constant harassment gets you suspended or canned. Truth be damned.
If this happens, I sure hope UM sues and find a way to get the hell out of this conference. Fuck B1G. Now, I am prepared for anything and have to think about watching Football going forward. Sick of this shit.
November 5th, 2023 at 10:51 AM ^
I'll repeat myself.
Michigan should join the PAC 2 and make a new PAC 12. I would guess some teams would think twice about leaving if they had Michigan, Oregon Washington and USC in one conference
November 5th, 2023 at 12:33 PM ^
We don’t know they have no proof
November 5th, 2023 at 7:39 AM ^
Man you just have to post the information.
Don't be cryptic.
That being said thanks for pointing it out because now I have had a chance to pucker my butthole
November 5th, 2023 at 7:47 AM ^
Thanks for flagging Comrade. (FWIW this is the post he is referring to.)
I hope this doesn’t send me to Bolivia, but here goes…..
According to my source, Harbaugh will be suspended indefinitely on Monday. The university is preparing a lawsuit against the conference and asking for an immediate stay on the suspension. Grounds for the suit are violation of conference rules on investigations and irreparable harm from the timing of the suspension. My source works for the law firm representing UM in this case. The firm is working this weekend to determine whether to file the suit in local, state, or federal court as reaction time is critical.
Sam Webb said something similar last night on one of the 247 boards: “What might an oppressive suspension from the Big 10 look like? How about indefinite suspension until the NCAA investigation concludes. That's the kind of thinking around the league that Michigan's administrative brass has encountered, and has to try and change.”
November 5th, 2023 at 8:17 AM ^
If this happens and Michigan can’t get a stay, this should be the hashtag: #Justice4Jim
November 5th, 2023 at 8:21 AM ^
If this does happen..Harbaugh will say see ya because of the bullshit and go back to the NFL...and Michigan should say see ya to the Big 10
November 5th, 2023 at 8:57 AM ^
I honestly, I want out of the BigTen. With the shifting landscape now is the time to move if we wanted to.
Possible I'd regret it later, but this conference blows. MSU tries to injure our players multiple years in multiple sports. OSU hires a PI firm and possibly broke laws. Our conference partners push retribution before all facts are in. Most teams have a signs guy who trade signs with other teams to get future opponent signs, which is lost in the media BS.
November 5th, 2023 at 9:21 AM ^
Alot of the Big 10 teams are in stagnant population states too. If went to the ACC most are in the growing states (VA, NC, GA, FL)would help with recruiting as well
To many of the Big 10 teams are just counting their money because of Michigan (not only but UM is one of the 2 drivers) that money is significantly lower if we leave.
And, us leaving, would the Pac 12 teams coming in back out? Find some clause where they can leave? We could rip apart the league! :)
November 5th, 2023 at 9:37 AM ^
SEC! SEC! SEC! SEC!
November 5th, 2023 at 10:49 AM ^
You know you want it.
November 5th, 2023 at 9:40 AM ^
Aside from leaving, Michigan can make another significant threat. Simply say no more equal sharing of revenue. Insist that the shares of the next media deal are proportional to the TV ratings. It will divide the conference and potentially cost some schools quite a bit of money. Michigan has been giving a large gift with no complaints and getting no respect for it.
November 5th, 2023 at 10:30 AM ^
Totally disagree. This cements Harbaugh to Michigan unless he is actually banned. Ono has stood by him and Harbaugh is the sort of guy who ain’t leaving after that.
November 5th, 2023 at 8:31 AM ^
As someone who used to work at the sort of firm that is representing Michigan, this all seems very credible to me. After meeting with the Big 10 and consulting with its lawyers, Michigan likely decided it’s better to be safe than sorry. They likely have a team of lawyers working all weekend so they have the TRO almost entirely competed if/when the decision comes down. Preparing a TRO is extremely time intensive, so these lawyers got the infamous Friday afternoon call of “Hey — what are you doing this weekend? I have this assignment …”.
It is important to know, however, that these sorts of things happen on a regular basis and often times the TRO isn’t necessary. They have to be ready to go and you don’t want to be caught flat footed.
Finally — I think the Big 10 would have suspended Harbaugh already if that’s the way they were going to go. The fact that he coached 2 games after they became aware of the alleged scheme hurts their position.
Edit — And that’s likely why Conner resigned on Friday and issued a statement. Michigan can now say: (1) all evidence points to a rogue employee doing all this; (2) that employee has admitted as much; and (3) that employee is no longer employed by the university. Why, then, does the Big 10 need to suspend now? The alleged scheme is not continuing and they are not really concerned about competitive balance as they let Harbaugh coach the last two games. The only thing the league can really say is they want to punish Harbaugh because member schools are outraged by press reports and don’t want to wait for an investigation before doing so. Weak sauce.
Edit again — I think this has to be filed in Federal Court. The BIG — I think — is based out of Illinois.
And — if this ends up in federal court, I assume it ends up in the eastern district. Go look at the roaster of judges. Just look at it. We could not be in a more friendly forum. Almost every single judge has either a BA or JD from Michigan.. Some have both. My god.
November 5th, 2023 at 9:00 AM ^
I concur - although the B1G could also say they only recently became aware of the “breadth” of the “conspiracy,” etc. to cover their asses.
November 5th, 2023 at 9:14 AM ^
And — of course — the possibility exists that they have evidence we have not yet heard. Something is causing outrage and they might have a smoking gun.
Still — at this point — they would have presented such evidence to Michigan and Ono would be aware of it. The fact that Ono was on the sideline last night is extremely important. He is riding with Harbaugh and putting his ass on the line.
November 5th, 2023 at 9:21 AM ^
Evidence we have not yet heard? I am skeptical. Other Big Ten schools would have leaked it/
November 5th, 2023 at 9:47 AM ^
With all that’s been leaked it’s highly unlikely there is a smoking gun that hasn’t been dropped. With that many outraged coaches and this much media attention there is no way that the most important piece of evidence—the only one that would actually make Harbaugh accountable for any of this, hasn’t at least been rumored to exist. They are grasping at straws and trying to find a way to justify going against all their precedent and by laws to make something stick and that’s why a lawsuit is likely if a suspension is handed down. As far as I’ve seen an “indefinite” one isn’t even possible by the conference without due process so good luck with that. But it does sound like the commissioner has the authority for levy a fine and 2 games. Which honestly I’d take right now in exchange for all this to just go away
November 5th, 2023 at 10:10 AM ^
The thing is, it won't go away. Michigan shouldn't agree to anything before the process is complete.
November 5th, 2023 at 10:49 AM ^
The way this has gone to this point, if there was a smoking gun that showed Harbaugh knew what Stalions was doing, it would’ve been leaked already and Ono wouldn’t be supporting Harbaugh like he is.
November 5th, 2023 at 9:47 AM ^
It would be tough for the big 10 to argue that, since they haven't conducted an investigation.
November 5th, 2023 at 9:01 AM ^
funny, i was thinking how i'd lay the pleadings out. main thrust of course is due process, but some of the nuances that came to mind:
irreparable harm to U of M and it's players. this is one you can't go back and 'undo' or make right with money damages
discussion about the NCAA rules - that 3rd party recording is fine; that even if the 'worst' is true, it's a big nothing-burger. add in the takes of our non-rivals, the number of coaches and talking heads who said, 'no big deal, everybody steals signs
get at the whole reason for the ticky-tack, silly rule from 1994. with cell phones it's so dumb. it's like worrying about rules on how we harness horses to pull stage coaches.
and finally, a list of the really eggregious stuff the NCAA has let slide, let go on for years, or only gave hand slaps after years of bogus investigation: UNC academic fraud, kansas and Ariz coaches buying players on tape, the SEC in general, etc.
EDIT: two other considerations - first, suspending harbaugh would not remedy any on-going alleged wrong. the whole football world is alerted and able to take steps.
undoubtedly stalion would give an affidavit supporting a number of important points on how it was done and that nobody else of note knew, as is implied in his lawyer's statement.
if this is somehow about weiss having a bunch of practice tape though, maybe that changes the calculus. we'll see.
November 5th, 2023 at 9:29 AM ^
All good points, however, consider this: A complaint and TRO mean that eventually Conner gets a notice of deposition and the Big 10 lawyers can have at him. I would not want him tied to a declaration. Plus — I think it hurts our position if we can’t make Conner show up for an investigation but could get him to submit a detailed declaration. Just a thought.
Here is the upside to a lawsuit: we get to go after whoever hired the PI firm and handed over the report. We also get all sorts of communications between the Big 10 and whoever they are talking to. Thing of all the e-mails, texts, etc there must be.
This will be nasty and there is no repairing the relationship. Everyone should just wait for an Investigation to be completed.
November 5th, 2023 at 11:49 AM ^
Wonder if they would file against the B1G or also name individual voting members.
Maybe better for an actual response to a show cause letter from the NCAA but don't forget the lack of any interest or action against Central Michigan. It looks like he was inside the team only area on the sideline near the coaches. If we compare apples as far as I know there's no evidence suggesting Harbaugh knew of this scheme. Military officer hired to potentially analyze on field signs. What's Central Michigan's excuse for dressing up a non-employee or rather low level Michigan football analyst in CMU apparel and have him whisper into coaches ear on the sideline? There's a clear violation there and getting past knowledge is super easy.
Very much on the outside here but it seems there is a lot of grey in college football, especially now that betting is legal. Harbaugh has also been very vocal that the players should come first, receive a fair share of the profits of the work and likeness, etc. There's a lot of motive out there to remove his voice from the process. Assuming this firm has history representing Michigan I'd love to see them tie this to something larger if they can make it stick. There's been mention that the FBI is involved in a separate UNRELATED investigation where Michigan appears to be either the victim or reporter. That piques interest for a number of reasons and at some point in time someone's going to file a RICO lawsuit against the B1G or NCAA.
November 5th, 2023 at 9:02 AM ^
Ryno- thanks for the post sir. Two things if I may…
It sounds like the BIG feels they have the votes to go beyond the two games. It’s unprecedented, but sounds like they may have the votes.
random question…how much would an institution like UM pay a law firm after one of those fridays calls to basically get this thing done and ready of the weekend. I’m just curious.
November 5th, 2023 at 9:09 AM ^
Assume the law firm got involved 2 weeks ago when the story broke. The October invoice could easily be several hundred thousand dollars. The November invoice — if they file a complaint, TRO, gather evidence could be seven figures.
The standard — non discounted billing rates are insane. It’s been awhile since I was in Big Law, but I would say the partner rate is well over 1,500 to 2,000 bucks an hour.
it’s been awhile for me, but I remember me and three other lawyers racked up a 250,000 bill over two weeks and that was 20 years ago.
November 5th, 2023 at 9:12 AM ^
Thanks for sharing! I was just curious. I work in compliance for a med device company and I know for us how much we spend for “serious issues”. It’s always been worth every penny…it’s just a lot of penny’s 🤣
Thanks for entertaining my question!
November 5th, 2023 at 6:47 PM ^
Yup, BigLaw rates now are 1,500 to the low 2,000s for partner time and most of the associates are now at/above 1k, so would guess pretty good odds something like this gets over 1M in fees if it is t already.
November 5th, 2023 at 10:56 AM ^
I'm hoping this is just more smoke and another false report. However, if there is some credibility, maybe M not being the dog that lies down this time but baring its fangs will make the B1G reconsider and be more circumspect. The possibility of a threat to withhold or interfere with TV revenue sharing gives it some serious weight since so many of the poor sisters of the B1G desperately need it.
November 5th, 2023 at 10:57 AM ^
I thought about this when I read the original post in the other thread. It was implied that the Big Ten was already implementing an indefinite suspension of Harbaugh, and that is what triggered the weekend work of the law firm.
But it may be more of a case of due diligence to have the work ready to go if the Big Ten heads down that path.
You can be sure that Michigan quietly let the Big Ten know that the lawsuit is being worked on, you know just in case. We're not bluffing.
November 5th, 2023 at 10:49 AM ^
How about indefinite suspension until the NCAA investigation concludes.
Guilty until proven innocent?
What a terrible precedent to set.
November 5th, 2023 at 10:49 AM ^
To me the next move in this chess game is that Michigan should already be on the phone with the SEC about a move there. Whether it is genuine or not it might be something that slows down the ESPN media barrage.
November 5th, 2023 at 7:56 AM ^
Que Sera Sera. UMich will march on with Sherrone and Jesse carrying the torch that burns the haters down
November 5th, 2023 at 7:18 AM ^
I'll admit I did not see the comment on the previous thread, so I missed it.
November 5th, 2023 at 8:11 AM ^
Its one of the last comments in a thread a day old. Its buried. I had no clue it was there
November 5th, 2023 at 9:49 AM ^
Many posters and Brian have argued that, if there is a unilateral Big Ten suspension, then U-M should take it's ball and go home -- to the SEC.
Of course, this would never happen for so many historical, financial, and institutional reasons.
Howeva, you have to wonder if a suspension would be the catalyst in U-M playing hardball with the Big Ten in future contract negotiations. Why should U-M continue to agree to equal TV payouts when it is one of the big rainmakers?
The Big Ten has more power than the NCAA because of TV money. But ultimately, the Big Ten has TV money because of U-M (and OSU). U-M has the upper hand.
November 5th, 2023 at 11:02 AM ^
Michigan is not a fit for the SEC, but they could go save the ACC.
Michigan, Notre Dame, FSU, Miami, Clemson in football . . . add in Duke, UNC, UVA, Syracuse in basketball . . . would make a very attractive conference. And it would certainly be the top conference in academics by a wide margin.
Also, I would bet a few eastern Big Ten teams like Penn State might like to "come home" to their own region.
November 5th, 2023 at 12:26 PM ^
This ^^^^^
November 5th, 2023 at 7:10 AM ^
The way that Purdue dismantled Michigan reflected, IMO - just how impactful these allegations are.
November 5th, 2023 at 7:13 AM ^
You also missed Santas letter to the BIG on how Michigan will respond.
November 5th, 2023 at 7:29 AM ^
Please point out the paragraph to me where it says that if you suspend Jim Harbaugh Monday, we are working on an injunction and will have it ready to go?
I know a lot of us speculated on that type of response and speculated on what Tony Petitti may do but here was someone giving dates and a definitive response. If I had not come across the post when I did, I would have liked someone to point it out, so I'll take the neg on it.
November 5th, 2023 at 7:51 AM ^
This news cycle has been rapid. The minute something is posted, its surplanted by new information.
November 5th, 2023 at 7:58 AM ^
Exactly. Ono is too weak to issue such a response
November 5th, 2023 at 8:25 AM ^
You keep making it clear why you are Broke
November 5th, 2023 at 11:09 AM ^
Ono fired off this warning shot as his last point in the letter:
“The best course of action, the one far more likely to ascertain the facts, is to await the results of the NCAA investigation. But if you refuse to let the NCAA investigative process play out, the Big10 may not take any action against the University or its players or coaches without commencing its own investigation and offering us the opportunity to provide our position. That is not just required by our conference rules; it is a matter of basic fairness. “
That is polite President-speak for "We will fight you."
Working on an injunction and having it ready to go is an instantiation of this last point. You can be sure that Michigan has telegraphed to the Big Ten that this injunction work is real and ready to go if we need to go that route.
November 5th, 2023 at 8:55 AM ^
Santa’s letter was prior to the meeting with Pettiti. Therefore it may not apply from a legal standpoint to the current situation. Pettiti may argue that he used that meeting to share his findings and invite a response from Michigan, and therefore that the B1G’s process has been satisfied.
November 5th, 2023 at 7:15 AM ^
here is the post from Kharper3…
I hope this doesn’t send me to Bolivia, but here goes…..
According to my source, Harbaugh will be suspended indefinitely on Monday. The university is preparing a lawsuit against the conference and asking for an immediate stay on the suspension. Grounds for the suit are violation of conference rules on investigations and irreparable harm from the timing of the suspension. My source works for the law firm representing UM in this case. The firm is working this weekend to determine whether to file the suit in local, state, or federal court as reaction time is critical.
This is about to get real.
November 5th, 2023 at 7:35 AM ^
The Ono letter looked like the kind of letter a lawyer would have him send if they anticipated needing to seek a restraining order to stop the Big Ten from taking the illegal action contemplated in the letter. So this feels credible to me.