External Indicators of Execution-ability of Offense?

Submitted by Caesar on October 4th, 2018 at 3:26 AM

Introduction

I'm referencing Sam Webb's 10/3 "Even more calls on the Michigan offense" or one that came just prior. In it, Sam offers some statistics about the offense's effectiveness and makes the argument that the overall ineffectiveness actually comes down to player execution and not play calling. His listeners are unable to make a convincing case otherwise.

Question: Figuring out if it's a 'Borges Problem' 

Let us say Sam is right (I honestly don't know), and the problem is execution. Is it possible for someone to reliably tease out the difference between player error caused by the player vs. too much schematic complexity without having an inside story?

Some Ideas on Teasing This Out

  • Take Brian's UFR and count the number of unique plays vs. other teams
    •  I'm not sure how to count unique plays, however. While constraint plays, for example, are unique, does it mess up the idea of complexity because these plays have elements that are mostly repeated with some minor tweaks?
  • Categorize errors, though this seems difficult
    • Dropping a catchable ball or missing an open running lane seems like player error, though maybe they're 'thinking so much' that they mess it up
    • Catastrophic failures, as we saw with the OL last year (1/2 guys on a different page), would maybe get blamed on coaches, though maybe you could also put that on the players responsible for line calls. 
    • You'd also have to account for player experience, as that impacts familiarity and practiced skill

Any thoughts on this issue would be appreciated.

GarMoe

October 4th, 2018 at 4:54 AM ^

Sorry but this is just BAD.   Late night posts tend to indicate adult beverage consumption and this post is swimming in it.   I had to read several lines several times just to try to get a handle on your “point” and .......... I still don’t.   

 

blue in dc

October 4th, 2018 at 6:56 AM ^

it is a little confusing because the commenter starts by talking about play calling in general but then focuses on the more specific question of complexity of the offense, but it’s not that hard to understand.

Seems like a strange example of a late night post to incite a tirade about the dangers of posting while drinking.   While its not the most well thought out post I’ve ever seen, yours seems less well thought out and over the top.

 

bluepalooza

October 4th, 2018 at 6:29 AM ^

Not sure about the direction of this post.  All I can say, is I think the team is improving and the season most of us hoped for is still in front of us. There is breakdowns at every level on occasion in team sports. Coaches expect a certain offensive or defensive formation and "guess" at next play call. Game to game, the success rate of the "guess" ebbs and flows. One person misses a block an otherwise perfect call and exectution and a potential big play is a one yard loss.

So much goes into the game we love called football.  I do think the Michigan fanbase is a bit more critical than most fan bases. Michigan dug a big hole since losing to App State.  There was a good season or two, but many more bad seasons and poor recruiting than good seasons and good recruiting.  Michigan has gone from playing even or better than OSU and dominating MSU to becoming the doormat for both those programs over a 8-10 year span. The last 2 years Michigan should have beat OSU with much less talent and should have been 3-0 against MSU.  A blocked punt and injured QB's with no depth made the coaching staff work magic to keep us in those games.  This is the first year in Harbaugh's 4 years he has elite an QB on the field and a backup. This is the first year that the Team has strength and depth in most areas.  Still more work to do, but anyone who can't see this team is close, isn't looking or doesn't understand how dynasty's are built.

I am an armchair QB. I do sit and wonder some of the conservative play call running into an 8 man box.  I do have confidence we have an elite coaching staff than know a good bit more about X's and O's then I do.

LSAClassOf2000

October 4th, 2018 at 7:07 AM ^

So, I guess my question to the OP is this - what, in your opinion, is the metric here? You're going to need to boil this down to things that you can measure, so what are we measuring?

Anchew

October 4th, 2018 at 7:58 AM ^

What i  understand is that he was trying to see if our problems on offense were caused by poor execution or bad coaching. Personally i feel that our oline problems were due to coaching and execution. With overall play calling, harbaugh has had excellent game plans that have kept us in most games that we lost and if executed properly, we would have won those games. Too many times there were errant throws to wide open recievers, dropped passes, poor decision by a really good punter on the last play of a game, etc. It does appear that the offense is on the right track compaired to the last couple of years.

Yost Ghost

October 5th, 2018 at 12:50 PM ^

Oline problems due to coaching? More like bad Oline recruting.

2013 Oline recruiting produced 1 starter, Kugler. 2014 produced 2, Cole and JBB. 2015, Harbaugh's first with a month to work on, produced 2, Runyan and Newsome (career over after 1 season).

Hard to have a good Oline with poor recruiting.

trueblueintexas

October 4th, 2018 at 1:12 PM ^

This is the struggle of trying to individualize a team effort. Two examples immediately came to mind reading your OP.

During the dark period (RichRod & Hoke) during one of the many close games against Indiana, late in the game Indiana had a 75 yard touchdown run. After the game, Ryan Van Bergen said it was his fault because he moved over to the wrong gap at the last second. So who's fault is it? RVB clearly didn't chose the wrong gap on purpose. Did he get confused? Where was the teamwork to help him? Equally, is it the coaches fault for running a scheme which relies on perfect execution across all 11 to prevent a 75 yard TD run?

Another example, during the same dark period, I remember a UFR where Brian was apoplectic about a play design because it required the center to make a block he had no reasonable ability to make. Who's fault? Surely you would hope the coach is not muleheaded enough to think, maybe this one time little Johnny will actually pull that block off. At the same time, Brian did not indicate it was a completely impossible block to make. Did the player not execute or make the proper decision or was it the play call. The world may never know.

freelion

October 4th, 2018 at 7:20 AM ^

I would argue that RPS is the best metric for playcalling and everything else is just relative talent and execution between Michigan's offense and the opponent's defense. In other words, playcalling is irrelevant if you have a large positive talent and execution differential with the opposing defense. The more it is even, the more advantage you need from playcalling and that's where RPS comes into play. Since we know RPS is generally a small percentage of plays in each game, it really does come down to talent and execution. OSU has a pretty simplistic offensive scheme but they run it with 5* talent with players built for and developed for that system. Their playcalling is pretty predictable but it doesn't matter when you have guys that can take a screen pass 80 yards in no time.

outsidethebox

October 4th, 2018 at 7:26 AM ^

Lord have mercy!!! If one doesn't know that performance and execution are not unequivocally intertwined then you simply are hopelessly lost. Sure, calling a fullback dive on 4th and 43 from your own 7 yard line is bad play calling but...just quit it. Competing and winning athletically is about execution!!!

1VaBlue1

October 4th, 2018 at 9:00 AM ^

Poor Denard...  Rich Rod knew how to use him to perfection, but Hoke destroyed him (and Gardner).  I know, this is an old, tired story line, but jeez...  I bet most people still don't know that DRob is all over the top 10 lists for Michigan's all time passing yards, completion, and TD records (both single game and career lists).  He was a joy to watch when not standing in the pocket trying to read coverage (fuck you, Hoke/Borges).  Let him roll out, improvise, or throw a quick hitter that didn't require a lot of thinking, and he was deadly!

MGoStrength

October 4th, 2018 at 8:06 AM ^

So, ultimately we are looking for someone to blame for below average offense.  Some say it's talent.  Recruiting rankings would disagree.  Some say it's coaching.  Our coaches have all had success elsewhere.  Some say it's execution based on too complex of a scheme (more mental than physical talent).  I'm not sure how we would know this.  Some say it's too much youth playing, which would be part of the many transitions of coaching regimes.  It's no wonder why we have no idea what the problem is.  Maybe there is something inherently different about UM that makes it harder to execute on offense.  Maybe we just have to continue to be patient?  I don't know but it seems like we should be better than we are at some stuff and that we should have an offense scheme that everyone knows by now with mastery of the base offense.  We have had a lot decent amount of turnover with the offensive coaching (Wheatley, Fisch, Drevno, Hamilton, Drevno, etc.).  But, when OSU has coaching turnover on offense (Warriner, Hermon, Day) they don't seem to suffer the same problem.  Who effin knows :/

jbuch002

October 4th, 2018 at 8:57 AM ^

Let's assume line play and QB play are two key ingredients to the efficiency of the offense  - lots of metrics to measure this. ESPN's FEI Offense is one of them. M has moved from 76th in 2017 to 20th in 2018 (after 5 games). QBR from 58.5 to 74.6. YPC/Run YPG and Passing YPP/ YPG have both improved. Why?

On Line play: The Warriner interview tends to inform line play as it relates to the OP's question. He mentioned that he can coach the OL that there are 6 things that are going to or need to happen once the ball is snapped. His job, as a coach, is to identify the two most likely things. This way players can play fast because they're thinking of working on 2 things instead of 6. The eyeball test and UFRs Offense confirms line play is considerably better and improving in 2018 compared to 2017.

On QB play: Is QB play better in 2018 than 2017? I'm not going to answer that.

On scheme and in-game play calling: Is M's offensive scheme or in-game play calling substantially different in 2018 than 2017? To my eye and to that of the UFRs, no.

It's execution that has M playing better and the trend lines in the measureables would seem to support that conclusion. I think, as has already been mentioned that, "it's football." Some play calls perfectly executed are going to work, sometimes they aren't because the opponent's defense executed well. Are there bad calls based on down and distance? I can think of a few - but not may.

My view is that Harbaughffense as it is designed is sound, in-game play calling within that scheme is generally sound.   

  

Ron Utah

October 4th, 2018 at 10:00 AM ^

A point that is too often missed is that execution is as much the responsibility of the coaches as play calling. It’s the coaches’ job to teach the players to execute and run plays that the players can effectively execute. 

And there is no doubt that repetition aids in effective execution. This year’s offense is very different from previous versions, particularly in the running game. I like this year’s version, but it’s a substantial evolution from last year’s wreck. While this is a good thing, it also means we are running a lot of plays we have not repped as much as I’d like. My hope is that we retain this running game for years to come and make more subtle changes when necessary. 

The passing game is unquestionably complex. The QB is asked to make multiple reads and progressions, the receivers need to learn complete route trees and option routes, the blocking has to be better than many offenses designed to get the ball out faster, and there multiple concepts built into the playbook (West Coast, Air Raid, Spread). 

That does not mean the passing game can’t be effective. Personally, I’d like to see more deception and less complexity (Fisch was a master of that) in the passing game. I’d like to see more slants and fades. I’d like to see more screens and throwbacks. Basically, at the college level, I’d like to see more plays where the QB has only one or two decisions to make. And, actually, the KC Chiefs offense is one that we could mimic to find a nice middle ground between our current complexity and some of the ultra basic passing offenses popular in college today. 

I guess what I’m saying is I’d like to see a passing game coordinator with more creativity and less complexity. 

maizenblue92

October 4th, 2018 at 10:07 AM ^

Hot take: The offense is mostly fine. All the efficiency metrics have them in the top 30. I would like to see a little more YOLO-ball, but I think they are being conservative intentionally. Penalties, field position, and Red Zone execution have limited the points output in the NW and Notre Dame games. 

BlueRude

October 4th, 2018 at 12:25 PM ^

Generally agree but sometimes I see Carr ball. The difference is Carr had top talent while the current squad has a good upside. But caution at this time merits suspicion as Pep has fingerprints on past history forward to today. It’s also hard to get some players in and out before the complete maturation occurs. So far Bush is ready, oh wait we’re taking offense.

Brian Griese

October 4th, 2018 at 11:29 AM ^

Poor execution excuses are things that should be only valid in very limited situations. I think Don Brown had some interesting personnel and formations that were kind of, um, out there early Saturday. However, Brian was spot on with his criticism of Gil and the crossing route with Kinnel of how the coach called the right scheme and it wasn’t executed correctly. 

However, contrary to what Sexy Al and Clapping Hoke think, a longer term issue with execution is not on the players at all. Either the coaches are not teaching the plays and concepts well or they’re presenting a terrible game plan. 

JFW

October 4th, 2018 at 12:29 PM ^

One of the things that frustrates me a bit is we seem to be getting criticism from both sides. 

I'm not a football expert by any stretch of the imagination. But I can't go a day without hearing both 'Our offense is too complex' and 'Our offense is too predictable'. 

Ron Utah

October 4th, 2018 at 1:10 PM ^

Those two criticisms are not mutually exclusive at all.  Having a lot of plays and concepts does not mean that those plays and concepts are well-disguised.

That said, I believe the criticism of the play calling is overblown and the bigger issue is that we have had three markedly different offenses in four years.  We need to settle into a style and stay there (see: Wisconsin, University of).  Continuity and creativity are the two most important parts of a college offense, IMO.  And creativity and simplicity are not exclusive, just as complexity and predictability are not exclusive.

JFW

October 4th, 2018 at 4:19 PM ^

Valid point. And this is maybe where I expose my own ignorance but I had thought that part of the reason Harbaugh valued complexity was that tiny nuances in base sets made them very difficult to scout. Remember the comment at B1G media days that every weekend UM showed something different that no one had seen before? 

I think that is what he wants, and is maybe limited by the age of the players. Last year he was very limited. This year they are developing into it. Next year I'd hope to have things fully in line. 

But this is my meta analysis, as a non football guy. :-)

AlbanyBlue

October 4th, 2018 at 10:29 PM ^

You have those comments, but then you also have comments from teams saying they knew what Michigan was going to run. Clearly NW knew as well. So, as was said, the offense certainly is complex and nuanced, but also predictable in some way. Maybe it's not supposed to be predictable, but teams *are* predicting it successfully -- and laymen are predicting it as well - so something's being made obvious. And it's been this way a long time.

Also, I hope M's offense isn't quashing Shea's natural ability. I noticed quite a bit of hesitation on his part, almost as if he's thinking too much about not throwing INTs rather than using his ability to see, react, and fire. 

Lastly, it seems obvious that Shea is being told to give the majority of the time at the mesh. As was mentioned, he doesn't keep unless the field is blindingly open. I get that we don't want him hurt though.

And yeah, I know I'm biased. I hate this offense. It's too conservative and devoid of meaningful deception, and no one is being fooled. Too many things have to go right for decent gains. Just because it works sometimes doesn't mean it's good. Most often, it's as if the OC committee just says screw it, we will out-talent everyone. Works for tomato cans, leads to 8-4. And it's horrid to watch. As Brian said....FFS, throw the damn post. 

JFW

October 5th, 2018 at 11:55 AM ^

So, I'm going to sound like a dick, but I don't mean to. Do you compare your ability to predict Michigan vs. other teams? I found I was able to predict 'Bama and MSU from their formations about as much as I could UM. But I'll repeat my caveat that I don't have a well trained football mind. 

Is there a team that you hold up that you say 'Wow! Just sitting here i have no clue what they are going to run!'. 

My own predilection for offense is that of what I saw as a student. A pro caliber O line knocking the D lines back 2-3 yards before Wheatley blasted through a whole and over someone in the secondary. :-)

That said, I know there are other ways to get this done. 

Do I wish Michigan would do things that seem obvious to me? Yes! I get frustrated on game day when a run goes for nothing. 

But I also I guess have more trust in the coaching staff to dial up plays. The example of the higdon play that would have gotten good yardage had he hit the open lanes, and not the linebacker, are an example to me of what they can do. OSU's game plan last year is an example of what they can do. The fact that they aren't doing what we all would seem obvious (isn't that also, by nature, predictable?) suggests, at least to me, that they have reasons. 

The biggest problem I think most have with this coaching staff is we will never, ever know what those reasons are. 

I do miss the train formation.