End Zone - The Brandon/Hoke era Before the Fall
Mates,
A while back one of the lurkers on the board, we'll call him Lawrence, lent me his copy of End Zone, the Rise, Fall, and Return of Michigan Football. It was an educational read, and I am one of those that likes JUB's writing style. The more you learn about the antagonist (that's you, Dave Brandon, just in case you're checking in), of course the easier it was/is to have such distaste for him. The mere description of his house is enough to make me shake my head, and there's loads more beyond that. However, prior to his time as AD, his background looked pretty stellar: Played ball for Bo, CEO of big corp, dedicated Regent.
Similarly for Hoke, its easy to nay-say him in hindsight, but he really did seem like a reasonable risk at that time. On top of that, his love for and loyalty to our school is/was outstanding.
And one name that came up repeatedly in the book was Will Hagerup. He was fighting his own battle and hopefully is winning it. Interesting look into his life and the tribulations therein.
So the questions for tonight:
1. As to Dave Brandon - What was there before his time as AD that anybody knew that would've been a tip-off to the train wreck that he was? The view from 30,000 feet at that time looked pretty good.
2. As to Hoke - Similar question: If there wasn't going to be the capture of the Harbaugh Unicorn, who else would you have picked, and what in Hoke's background was so glaring that you would've said 'no way, Jose'?
3. And for Will Hagerup - Anybody know where he is now? Can we get an update, hopefully of good news?
To emphasize, the trick is to read the tea leaves as they were at the beginning of their era, not once it got going. Heck, even I am bright enough to figure it out from that point.
And as a complete aside, thanks to all of you who commented on my earlier TV thread. Picked one up today based upon all the great input. And if you want to make this into a 'Saturday Night Adult Beverage and BBQ' thread, well go right ahead.
XM
August 11th, 2018 at 8:26 PM ^
AT THE TIME OF THE HIRE...Brandon was a defensible choice for AD, for the reasons you stated. He appeared to be reasonably qualified and had ties to the university. You could look at this hire and say, "yeah, I get this one. This makes sense."
As for Hoke, OTOH, his resume was too thin to coach at a program like Michigan. They went fishing for a Bo-like hire. They wound up falling out of the boat and sinking to the bottom of the sea. There's no question that he loved the university, but this job was simply too big for him, even at the time of his hire.
As for Hagerup, I have nothing. I hope he's doing well.
August 11th, 2018 at 8:40 PM ^
Agree completely and only thing to add about hoke is that he was someone brandon could seemingly dominate over - the alleged watching game film, etc. The coach would not outshine the AD, as brandon, news alert, had an ego! Going from Regent to AD was 2 levels down in the Michigan hierarchy, but a position he was willing to take, but wouldn't want too much of a backseat.
August 11th, 2018 at 8:45 PM ^
Certainly.
However, I don't think many people, if any, connected with the athletic department knew just how Brandon was wired, as far as the micro-management and film watching went.
Could you imagine had someone tried that with Bo, or even Lloyd? There would still be a grease stain on the wall.
August 11th, 2018 at 8:44 PM ^
Brandon wasn't a terrible AD, and he definitely left the overall AD in better shape than when he began. However, there were a couple things that he was absolutely terrible at, and they did him in.
August 11th, 2018 at 8:52 PM ^
i think brandon was a decent hire, if that was all you/we/they knew at that time. i disagree that he was anything other than a terrible AD as it played out. he alienated the fans, destroyed the warmth and tradition of game days with giant macaroni noodles, as an example, and if i understand correctly, grossly boosted the athletic departments expenses for little or no perceivable benefit. and he also fired some fantastic folks who had such institutional knowledge and loyalty. i think he was darth vader as a personnel manager.
August 12th, 2018 at 7:44 AM ^
Agree that he gutted the AD from the standpoint of institutional memory, traditions, and the like. That was unforgivable and irreparable. Yeah, they could bring back guys like Jon Falk in an "honorary" role, but Falk could never again have the position at the heart of the football team's traditions that he once held. No excuses for gutting the department and then filling it with highly-paid lackeys, it was all ego.
Was this foreseeable? Probably. Look at what he did to Domino's; same thing.
August 11th, 2018 at 8:59 PM ^
Brandon was a terrible AD! Yes, he continued the facilities improvement and brought in a lot of money. But he did a lot more harm than good! He drove away a shitload of good, experienced people. He changed game day routines to the detriment of the program. (Ex: the whole Morris situation most likely (by a mile) would not have even started, let alone blossomed like it did had he not driven people away and changed routines.) He drove away popular, successful coaches in place of sycophants. He destroyed the Dept's reputation with the public, and with vendors.
Fuck Dave Brandon. Read the book before you say something that foolish again, Dave...
August 11th, 2018 at 9:33 PM ^
While it really sucked having to go through it at the time, I'm much happier seeing a football program that will be built from the ground up by Harbaugh than one still having a bunch of leftovers from the Carr era......
August 12th, 2018 at 9:53 AM ^
It wasn't just football people that he drove away/fired. It was coaches and staff from every sport, and every office within the AD. Brandon was a cancer that should have been cut out much sooner than he actually was...
August 11th, 2018 at 9:49 PM ^
Am I misremembering? I thought the selection committee/regents did not have Brandon as their preferred candidate, and only acquiesced because Mary Sue Coleman was so adamant that he was who she wanted.
August 12th, 2018 at 2:12 AM ^
You are correct sir. The panel to pick the next AD had three names on it. MSC told them to add a 4th — DB. Then she picked him over the the 3 qualified selections which included wade manual.
August 12th, 2018 at 9:37 AM ^
Actually what happened (as detailed in the book) was the Board of Regents essentially told MSC, "It's okay, we know Brandon's your guy and he's qualified, just go ahead and hire him." But she demanded that the search be "above board" and use a search committee. When their recommendation came back that Brandon was their least preferred choice among the finalists, she went ahead and hired him anyway. Nice waste of University funds, there Mary Sue. Oh, and also a horrendous hire, perhaps one of the worst in the history of Michigan Athletics.
August 12th, 2018 at 5:58 AM ^
The Bo-like hire would have been Dantini... Taken from the rib of them team we began to lose to. Bo was at Miami and he could bear Woody. Dantini was at Cinci and he could beat Tressel. Martin instead held Carr on another two yesry and msu got Dantini instead.
August 12th, 2018 at 9:50 AM ^
Hagerup is on Linkedin . He is listed as working for Fox Networks Group.
August 11th, 2018 at 8:35 PM ^
Wow! I would need several pages to capture these.
on 1) Brandon was a businessman and marketing expert. He was known for his motivational tactics, creating new cultures, and politics. Everyone assumed his football IQ would translate to a home run hire. His downfall, he hired subordinates that he thought he could manipulate. His constant marketing gimmicks killed the traditions of Michigan football.
2) Hoke was not qualified and should have never been hired. That simple.
3) Will works as an Account Manager for Fox in Chicago.
August 11th, 2018 at 8:38 PM ^
do you agree that brandon looked to be a good hire at that time?
thanks for the update on will h.
August 11th, 2018 at 8:42 PM ^
No. Even though he was CEO at Dominos, it did much, much better after he left them and his successor made several good operational changes.
August 11th, 2018 at 8:49 PM ^
not disagreeing, but the call of the question was what did the hire look like at that time. all of us can finger point in the interim, but back in 2011 when he was hired, were there any red flags you could point to?
August 13th, 2018 at 1:31 PM ^
As others have stated in different parts of this thread (not direct response to you), Brandon was the least qualified from a standpoint of a search firm that found 3 other candidates that were much better suited to take over.
My opinion is that, without this information, to the public at the time, this was a great hire of someone who could help steady the rough waters of infighting. Search group had it right from the beginning, but public didn't know.
August 11th, 2018 at 8:50 PM ^
I think this argument is one that comes out of spite.. He was ultimately the guy who oversaw the entire change of Domino's Pizza(which was ultimately done for marketing purposes). It certainly was the catalyst for all the success they've had since then.
The guy is a good CEO, but the Michigan AD position is as much politics as it is marketing and bean counting. Remember, the "Dave Brandon Pimp Hand" was a very real thing on MGoBlog for a while there, and people generally liked him. He just wasn't really able to delegate and needed a puppet like Hoke.
August 11th, 2018 at 9:23 PM ^
Uh, the revamping of Domino's product line and marketing came after Brandon left.
If I remember correctly, Bradon was not considered a candidate by the search committee, but was the result of MSC intervening and pushing for him. To me, that's a red flag.
Brandon had some reasonable credentials as a CEO and trustee, but he had no AD experience. I guess that could be a red flag for some.
August 11th, 2018 at 9:51 PM ^
The actual rollout of the new Domino's pizza happened about 2 weeks before Brandon left Dominos to become UofM AD.
I promise you that they didn't do a full revamp of their product saying, "Oh shit, now that we know Dave is on the way out, let's hurry up and switch up the recipe really quick in a few days!!!!!!" That was probably in the works for at least a year(oversaw by Brandon), and they made it coincide with a change in leadership to further drive the point home.
August 12th, 2018 at 1:06 AM ^
The directional change in Dominos you are attributing to Brandon could be attributable to the board of directors instead. How do you know Brandon came up with it then left? How do you know the board didn’t come up with it then trust Brandon to do it?
August 12th, 2018 at 12:50 AM ^
Toys R Us would beg to differ on him being a good CEO.
August 11th, 2018 at 8:53 PM ^
I sure did. I was in his camp early on, but grew tired of the arrogance and methods as time passed. There were constant calls for cash. He even lost Stephen Ross at the end.
August 11th, 2018 at 9:10 PM ^
Not to go on a tangent, but I will, Larry Page the Google co-founder who went to Michigan undergrad, has he given much money to Michigan? Considering he is 7x wealthier than even SMR, I don't hear much about that, while his philanthropy and giving is better documented at Stanford?
August 11th, 2018 at 10:01 PM ^
Larry Page is still fairly young, I'm sure UMich will get plenty from him over time. I would imagine that 99.9% of his wealth is still in Google stock still.
August 11th, 2018 at 10:19 PM ^
No telling if or how much Larry Page has donated to U-M. What Google did was open an office in Ann Arbor that employs an estimated 450 people. That's better than giving money to U-M because Google attracts/retains talented people in Ann Arbor and those employees pay taxes and contribute to the community. Between the technology base in An Arbor and the technology that is being developed by the auto industry in Detroit, SE Michigan is becoming a technology hub.
August 11th, 2018 at 11:00 PM ^
I think the problem with the Brandon hire was that he was a great candidate on paper but anyone paying attention to the details of what was happening at Dominoes (and why would the average Michigan fan have been doing that?) would have seen the early warning signs.
During Brandon’s time at Dominoes their market share decreased significantly and in response the quality of their product started to decline. That is a clear sign of poor management, but most people would not have been tracking such a thing until Brandon’s name came up on the radar as a possible AD. At that point MSC was already railroading it through so all anyone really had time to look at were the resume highlights of CEO, Regent, Former player. Those three things look great if that’s all you know.
August 12th, 2018 at 9:40 AM ^
Marketing expert? Anything but. That was his claim and analyzing his marketing decisions shows that he is an absolutely terrible marketer.
August 11th, 2018 at 8:38 PM ^
2. As to Hoke - Similar question: If there wasn't going to be the capture of the Harbaugh Unicorn, who else would you have picked, and what in Hoke's background was so glaring that you would've said 'no way, Jose'?
While I am not sure who I really would have picked at the time in January 2011, it would definitely not have been Hoke. The resume didn't support the hire, and from day one, it really did seem like we had gone straight to Plan Z from A with a few stops at the other letters. He said a lot of the right things, and that 2011 season was deceptively awesome on many levels, but as I think about it in retrospect, I understand that hire less and I barely understood it then.
August 11th, 2018 at 8:47 PM ^
The thing about the Brady Hoke hire-- it was his dream job and to give it to him when he wasn't ready is as good a way of smashing someone's dreams as to never give it to him. People get hurt when poor decisions are made.
August 11th, 2018 at 9:43 PM ^
I wouldn't go quite as far. I thought Hoke was kind of a Plan C candidate. Better than a retread with a spotty record at a high level and better than someone with a similar career trajectory but lacking the Michigan connections.
But by Plan C, I don't mean 3rd choice. I mean a 3rd tier candidate. I suspect he was Brandon's true 1st choice. I am sure he could have hired a better coach, but not one that was willing to be a true subordinate. And to be fair, Brady is a Michigan man. We didn't have the best atmosphere for another out of the region hire.
I found Hoke easy to root for, but he made me uneasy. He just seemed out of his depth, even before I knew enough to back that up.
If we couldn't get Harbaugh, I wanted us to at least try for Patterson and Peterson. Miles was my Plan B choice.
August 11th, 2018 at 11:03 PM ^
We’ll always have “This is Michigan fergodsakes”.
August 12th, 2018 at 8:51 AM ^
And he would have walked to Ann Arbor. Given he was...uh...rotund, he might have given up somewhere east of Vegas.
August 11th, 2018 at 8:48 PM ^
are you serious re hoke?
he mightve been a good DL coach with some history at michigan but thats not reason enough to land a top 5 head coaching gig
August 11th, 2018 at 9:04 PM ^
I am trying to forget the Brandon/Hoke era...just when I thought I was out they pull me back in!
August 11th, 2018 at 9:13 PM ^
sorry cali. if its any consolation, there won't be any attempted acting by sofia coppola
August 11th, 2018 at 9:12 PM ^
The program was in such dissary in 2011 (and amazingly worse in 2014). We went through a tumultuous RR experience and the thought of a “Michigan Man” blinded a lot of people. Even though Hoke was a distance 3 on the list of Michigan Men in the head coaching ranks, Hoke came in and said all the right things; he said too many of the right things in hindsight. The Mattison hire was great in comparison to GERG.
We had a terribly weak schedule in 2011. Hoke wasn’t prepared to go into EL and Iowa City. It was smoke and mirrors and 2012 was more smoke and mirrors part in due to the difficult schedule. 3 of 4 regular season losses came to the top 3 teams. 2013 I was still on board with Hoke. After UTL II all went downhill very fast. The game in EL was as embarrassing of any game. Hoke saved any sliver of hope with that OSU game and then came 2014 which was a shitshow.
Hoke was a very, very bad Head Coach. His in game management skills were about absent and his player development was poor as well. Also personnel decisions were bad too (Raymond Taylor for example).
Hoke never was good enough but the face he was a quasi-Michigan Man and not Rich Rod is why he was even remotely accepted at any point
August 12th, 2018 at 9:51 AM ^
I was a student during the 2010-2013 seasons. 2011 was awesome and at the time I think most of the students were optimistic. The recruiting was outstanding. We beat OSU. We won the sugar bowl. For me, 2012 was where Hoke lost me. Specifically the Nebraska game. Denard got hurt and Russell Bellamy looked like he had never played football in his life. The team was unprepared without Denard and it really showed how much Denard kept Hoke afloat. After that game, I knew Hoke wasn’t going to be the guy and I wondered how long we were going to be stuck with him. After reading Brandon’s Lasting Lessons, I discovered far Brandon was willing to go to save face on Hoke. Scary to think what might have been had Brandon not been fired.
August 11th, 2018 at 9:15 PM ^
This was a very good book, as was Three and Out.
The issue can probably be traced as far back as 2006. Let me explain:
-Carr should have retired after 06. The rumor is that the following year, he was "going through the motions" on some things, and the players picked up on it, thus our 8-4 season
-When Carr left, Bill Martin really didn't have the plan he should have. Didn't help that Herbstreit blabbed about the potential for Miles coming (that would have made the following years VERY interesting in AA)
-Rich Rod was the rockstar at the time. He was basically one play away from taking the Mountaineers to the NC game. He was pioneering the zone read spread at a time when not that many coaches were using it. Urban Meyer had called him one of the most brilliant offensive minds in football. So Martin gave him a go
-We know what happened from there. I won't go into detail. Read 3 and out if you want that, but there's plenty of blame to go around, both on the part of Rich Rod (defense? What's that? Just hire 4-3 guys for my 3-3-5 defense. All the same, right?) and on the part of people who actually worked against him and truthfully made his years here look worse than they would have looked had some of the rug pulling not happened (Case in point: remember that "time gate" thing where players squealed on him for running his practices four minutes too long each day? Because of that investigation in 09, player practice time was seriously hampered by NCAA officials cutting in and interviewing players during practices, and that affected game outcomes; practice for the MSU game that year was SERIOUSLY hampered, and if you remember we lost that game in overtime).
-While Rich Rod's neglect of defense was a large share of his woes, it didn't help that Dave Brandon intentionally undermined him by talking directly to the players. This was especially evident in the bowl game, as players have said that Brandon told them Rich Rod was gone regardless of the game outcome.
CONCLUSION ABOUT THE RICH ROD YEARS: Bad fit. Ignored defense. In light of his firing at Arizona, I'm glad he didn't stay here long enough to do damage in that vein. HOWEVER, that being said, not everything bad here was his direct doing, and unlike Hoke at least his wins went up every year.
-Brady Hoke: head coach at Ball State. Ended up with an undefeated season, but it took him quite a while to build up to that. San Diego state; give him props (and they're still doing good under Rocky Long).
-Hoke's first year, he and Borges essentially kept the base of Rich Rod's spread (a very good idea) and brought in Mattison to run a 4-3. The result, 11-2. The fanbase was ecstatic
-Summary of what happened afterward: Brandon got too involved and pulled a Jerry Jones. Hoke began to soften on the "toughness" he preached, coddling players by the end of his time. Borges was allowed to get WAAAAAY too complicated with his playbook, especially O-line schemes, which were more complicated than even an NFL playbook.
-Whereas at least Rich Rod increased wins, Hoke decreased wins.
CONCLUSION ABOUT THE HOKE YEARS: Essentially the inverse of Rich Rod: great defense, horrible offense. Let his foot up on the strict atmosphere of practice. Should have told Borges to basically simplify the playbook and keep Rich Rod's spread like he did in year 1 and play off that. Went from 11-2 to 5-7 in four years.
August 11th, 2018 at 9:50 PM ^
complicated line schemes and the ineptitude of Darrell Funk. A recipe for disaster.
August 11th, 2018 at 10:34 PM ^
We came very close to hiring Greg Schiano in 2008. He was offered the job and accepted. Then changed his mind when he went to inform his team. Then changed his mind again a couple of days later and called back to accept. Martin actually was moving quickly and had already started talks with RR.
August 12th, 2018 at 6:36 AM ^
This raises an interesting point. What would've happened with Rich Rod with an AD not named Dave Brandon?
August 12th, 2018 at 1:53 PM ^
Difficult to say. Of course, the question for Rich Rod ultimate was whether or not he would get his head out of his rear regarding the defense.
See, he kept wanting to run a 3-3-5. Okay, great; a 3-3-5 can work quite well when properly applied (Don Brown has a package he runs from that formation, btw). But if the 3-3-5 is going to be your base formation, THEN GET A COACH WHO KNOWS HOW TO RUN IT AS A BASE FORMATION.
Greg Robinson gets a lot of flack for our defense, but remember that he was NOT a 3-3-5 specialist. Robinson ran a 4-3. And you know what? If you look at other defenses where Robinson was involved and they ran a 4-3, they were pretty decent. But Rich Rod wanted him here for a 3-3-5, not a 4-3. To put it in perspective, that's like taking a guy who's driven monster trucks and tractor pulls all of his life, giving him the keys to a formula one car, and expecting him to win the Indy 500 or the Monaco GP. Just because it all involves automobiles doesn't mean it's all the same.
Basically all Rich Rod had to do to keep his job was do one of two things: 1.) Either get a 3-3-5 guy to run the defense, like he had with Casteel at WVA, or 2.) Say to Greg Robinson, "Okay, this 3-3-5 thing isn't working. Let's try what you know and do a 4-3." But for whatever reason, he would not do it. Rich Rod may have pioneered the zone read, and the football world owes him a lot of the credit for the success of the spread zone read, but the man looked at defense as simply nothing more than just keeping your score one point higher than your opponent's score, and that ultimately did him in.
August 12th, 2018 at 7:15 PM ^
to add to this, Greg only had 28 scholarship athletes on his side of the ball when he showed up. the cupboard was bare.
August 12th, 2018 at 10:12 AM ^
I may be wrong, but in the long view I still blame Lloyd Carr for the Lost Decade (and I think Lloyd was an excellent HC in his tenure). Assuming Lloyd knew his time was running out, he should have let his bosses know well in advance that he was going to retire so they could have had a successor already in place. There could have been a wink-and-a-nod agreement with somebody well before Lloyd announced. Instead they got caught up in that awkward late-December game of musical chairs and ended up with RR, which was admittedly kind of exciting at the time because he was one of the hot young coaches. But the adults in the room would have recognized that what Rich was doing was 180-degrees opposite to everything Michigan had done before and would require a cultural sea change that would require at least 5 years to do, and another 5 years to undo. I believe that this year, 2018, is the first year that everything that went wrong in 2007 is now completely washed through the system and we have the right man for the job!
August 11th, 2018 at 9:25 PM ^
I thought Hoke was a good cultural fit and he seemed like a good guy. He just isn't very bright. You could see it in his first press conference. As a Power 5 head coach you need to think strategically and keep track of many details. Too big a job for Brady ...
August 11th, 2018 at 9:27 PM ^
1. Brandon: There may not have been specific warning signs about his hiring but there wasn't a compelling reason to hire him either. Ward Manuel already had some experience as an AD when Brandon was hired. I think other former players did as well.
2. Brady Hoke had a losing record as a head coach at Ball State and SDSU, 47-50. He shouldn't have been under serious consideration for the job. Rich Rod had finally rebuilt the team into a winner after inheriting a flaming crater from Carr. Brandon undercut his recruiting but he had still gotten commitments from quality players like Jake Fisher, Blake Countess and Desmond Morgan. RR should have been allowed to finish out his contract. So, there shouldn't have been a vacancy and after there was it shouldn't have been filled by Hoke.
August 12th, 2018 at 1:29 AM ^
Rich Rod had finally rebuilt the team into a winner
Three years into the RichRod era we went 7-6 overall, 3-5 in league play and got destroyed by 20+ in our last three games. Rich rebuilt only one side of the ball; the other side got worse each year. And at the time it wasn't even public knowledge what a piece of shit he was off the field. It wasn't going to end well for him or Michigan no matter when we fired him. At least it was Arizona who got left holding the bag about his sexual harassment.
Firing RichRod was fine in itself. However, dragging it out for a month and then zeroing in on Hoke was ridiculous.