Devin Gardner's "wasted" redshirt year has benefits
Like most Michigan fans, I'm disappointed that Devin Gardner isn't redshirting this year because of the hope that he would stick around and start for 2 years (2013 and 2014) after Denard and Tate graduated. The liklihood of keeping Devin around for 5 years has decreased dramatically.
That said, people need to settle down about it. Its not as simple as trading marginal contributions in 2010 for presumed dominance in 2014. Heres why the benefits playing Devin now are underappreciated and the costs overstated :
- The 5th year of eligibility (2014) should be recognized as a CHANCE of a 5th year of eligibility. It's far from certain. Injury (e.g. Antonio Bass), transfer (e.g. Ryan Mallett, Jason Forcier), early entry (e.g. Drew Henson, Vince Young) are all viable scenarios that make "investing" in the 5th year payoff a waste of time.
- More experienced backup/3rd string QB in 2010, 2011, and 2012. Starting QBs get hurt regularly. The chances of needing your 3rd QB are small but non-zero. If it happens, you want someone who is ready. There is value in having a backup player with more experience.
- Option of red-shirting retained in 2011, 2012, 2013. Redshirting in the sophomore, junior, or senior years is unlikely, but not impossible. Consider a scenario where Devin loves Michigan but is clearly locked in as 3rd on the depth chart -- its 2012, junior year, light at the end of the tunnel starts becoming visible, but playing time remains elusive with Tate and Denard ahead. Red-shirting might not look so terrible.
- Additional scholarship-year available to another player in 2014 (assuming no red-shirt). Scholarships are scarce assets. Anytime you use one on a player who doesn't contribute to on-field success (red-shirts) you are wasting a scholarship year. If you "invest" in a red-shirt, you hope to earn a sizeable payback later on, but its risky. There is value to having Devin's scholarship available in 2014, even if its used to incentivize the walk-on program.
- Positive Recruiting Ramification 1: Reinforce that freshman play. People probably already know given Tate/Denard, but another true freshman playing helps Michigan look more attractive.
- Positive Recruiting Ramification 2: QB job availability. Recruits will understand that the QB job is locked up for 3 more years, not 4. This will help with 2012 and 2013 QB recruits who want to see the field faster.
The above points are facts, even if they are of marginal consequence they are clearly benefits to playing Devin in 2010... now heres a few more reasons that are based on conjecture/opinion
- Less dramatic play-calling transition when Denard exits. Gardner is (according to the coaches and most other observers) a better runner than Tate. If so, there is less need to deviate from the Denard gameplan in 2010. This team could still use all the stability it can get.
- Reward off-season work and leadership. It was rumored Devin impressed far more than Tate in this regard. Team values and so on...
- Maturity lesson for Tate. Another rumor was that Tate was acting a little spoiled and not putting in the off-season work. Given last week, Tate seems to have grown up a good bit. The Devin-Red-Shirt decision may have played a role.
- Reinforce "the best will play" mentality Perhaps Devin earned the job and the coaches simply chose not to redshirt the 2nd best QB coming out of camp. If they hadn't done so, their stated value of "the best will play" would have been undermined. They're always talking about the value of competiton. If Devin won this one, what would it say to the other players to make him the 3rd stringer.
- Accelerated Devin’s development. (Would Tate and Denard be the same QBs they are now if they hadn’t played last year?)
September 27th, 2010 at 6:49 PM ^
September 27th, 2010 at 7:09 PM ^
Couldn't agreemore. I for one hope he's redshirted next season...
September 27th, 2010 at 8:27 PM ^
This scenario is highly doubtful.
September 27th, 2010 at 6:57 PM ^
Gotta get Gardner ready, Denard most likely only playing through 2011, which leaves Devin as the starter in 12 and 13, if he beats out Tate.
September 27th, 2010 at 7:14 PM ^
You honestly think Denard is going pro early? Granted, he's inventing new ways to play quarterback right now, but let's not get ahead of ourselves. How many 5'11 quarterbacks are in the NFL? How many go in the first 2 rounds? I think Denard is certainly an NFL caliber athlete and his arm is a cannon, but I just don't see him as the personality type to leave early. I'm not saying it's impossible or he's not good enough- I would just be very shocked if he did, unless Michigan plays for the national title next year and he has nothing left to prove (the Michael Vick scenario).
September 27th, 2010 at 7:20 PM ^
Hard to turn down those millions. Desmond was the #4 pick over all when he won the Heisman. God bless Desmond, but he is not as explosive or versatile as Denard.
I'm sure NFL OC's would find ways to use Denard's remarkable talents.
Also take into account the Al Davis effect, ain't no way Al Davis passes on Denard, not with all that SPEED!
September 27th, 2010 at 8:02 PM ^
It certainly is hard to turn down that cash. Thank goodness he's hours from home, unlike Vince Young who probably had friends and distant relatives with their hands out telling him to go pro. As of now I'm betting on Denard staying for two reasons:
1. His personality. He by all accounts hates media attention, doesn't care about individual accomplishments, practically worships Coach Rodriguez, and is looked at as the leader of the team already. Something tells me he would have a very difficult time leaving unless he was assuredly a high first round pick.
2. NFL scouts are going to want a lot of questions answered before they would make him a first round pick. Can he throw the deep out? The deep ball with touch? Run a pro offense? Basically, all the garbage they hit Tebow with, minus the throwing motion questions. In the NFL he'll be asked to play a vastly different position, whether as a pro quarterback or some coordinator concocted hybrid. He has incredible potential, but he's got a long way to go before NFL scouts will be sold on him as a first rounder at quarterback or receiver.
In my opinion, relative to his time Desmond was damn close to being the kind of athlete Denard is (without the crazy rifle arm, of course). I've often hyped Denard as 'Desmond at quarterback' to get my "old school" Dad psyched this offseason. The reason he went #4 was because the Redskins were coming off a Super Bowl win and it was a luxury pick. I don't necessarily think Denard would be more versatile as a draft pick, either. They'll be hoping he can make a major adjustment to one position. From day one, Desmond could play receiver and return both kicks and punts- with which he justified his lofty draft status. I think he would've been like Percy Harvin, Reggie Bush, or Desean Jackson in today's more wide receiver-friendly NFL. Best kick returner I've ever seen. Of course, that's the Packers fan in me speaking.
All that said, your Al Davis effect theory really, really scares me. He's probably already setting up blackmail ideas to get him to leave early. Al definitely looks capable of kidnapping, planting evidence, etc.
September 27th, 2010 at 8:26 PM ^
Al Davis already called dibs on Ryan Mallett.
September 27th, 2010 at 10:59 PM ^
Wikipedia lists Micheal Vick at
| Height: 6 ft 0 in (1.83 m) | Weight: 215 lb (98 kg) |
I'm bettin hes 5-11.
If Denard were to win a heisman, I think he would certainly go pro early. I would.
September 27th, 2010 at 8:48 PM ^
I think it was way to early to talk about Denard leaving after 2011. He needs to prove himself first in the BT. He hasn't faced a defensive test yet, that test will be coming. After the test, then we can talk about the NFL. Plus Denard is going to have to stay healthy during this time to have the stats to make it the NFL.
September 27th, 2010 at 6:58 PM ^
Look, I'm as happy as the next fan about this season so far, but based on how capable both Denard and Tate are at QB, I find it very very hard to justify using Gardner this season. From both an immediate- and long-term perspective I can't understand how it doesn't make more sense to reduce his overlap with Denard and Tate to just two years. The fact that he is so good only makes it harder to accept that he won't have two full years at the reigns. But whatevs!
September 27th, 2010 at 9:13 PM ^
1. People need to stop expecting QBs to redshirt in general. Henson, Henne, Mallett, Forcier and Robinson all did not redshirt. Redshirts for QBs are becoming the exception, not the rule.
2. You need three QBs available, especially in this offense. We saw this on Saturday when both Denard and Tate got nicked up. We've played three guys every year RR has been here. In 2008 it was Threet, Sheridan and Feagin. Last year it was Tate, Denard and Sheridan. If Sheridan were still around, we could have maybe redshirted Gardner. When Sheridan decided not to return for his fifth year, that was it - Gardner needed to play. And if Tate decides to transfer, we'll probably see Sousa play next season, too.
September 27th, 2010 at 9:29 PM ^
1. None of Henson, Henne, Mallet, Forcier, and Robinson had two QBs ahead of them in terms of seniority of the caliber of Robinson and Forcier.
2. Why not wait until we have to use our third QB to play Gardner? You could argue that we were forced to against BGSU I guess, but I just don't think it made sense to have Gardner be the first one off the bench early this season.
September 27th, 2010 at 9:59 PM ^
By the time you have to use your third string without any reps, you are in trouble. It's too late. If its a close game, he will have a tough time. If not a close game, you probably can get someone to just hand off or direct snap to RB. Is a redshirt more important than a win?
I don't see any problem about burning the redshirt. Devin is obviously ready. Would I like to have Devin for an extra year, You betcha.
September 27th, 2010 at 6:59 PM ^
What do you mean Denard likely only playing till 2011? You really think a guy who seems to love his life here that much and doesn't have the size of a first-rounder would leave early?
September 27th, 2010 at 7:12 PM ^
I don't know anything about anything, but I'm pretty sure NFL teams will recognize Denard as a special talent regardless of if they see him as a qb and I wouldn't be surprised if he went in the first round. As for whether he'd leave- I bet even he hasn't thought it through yet.
September 27th, 2010 at 7:00 PM ^
Yes...as has been discussed ad naseum on countless threads. And btw, our struggles on defense are due to lack of depth.
September 27th, 2010 at 7:30 PM ^
Well this one was well written and made a lot of really good points. Give the guy some credit for that instead of acting like you are above everything. The best thing you could do is comment positively on a thread that you like and say nothing about the ones you think are repetitive.
Man, there are a lot of people on here who ignore the golden rule about treatment of other people.
September 27th, 2010 at 7:59 PM ^
I don't disagree that the OP has some good points--unlike a lot people I have no problem with playing Devin this year--but how many times can we rehash the same discussions over and over? Unlike you, I don't believe in setting up a means to personally email individual posters to give them a clue. To most people, sarcasm is an effective, non-destructive way of self-policing the board.
September 27th, 2010 at 8:04 PM ^
that is just......no.
September 27th, 2010 at 8:17 PM ^
I Derp.
September 27th, 2010 at 8:06 PM ^
Thought about gettin' snobby and posting along the lines of "not another Gardner/RS post," but this guy put in some effort and raised some good points.
September 27th, 2010 at 7:03 PM ^
in 2013
September 27th, 2010 at 7:14 PM ^
...likely will stay until he is a senior. Pat White did.
That said, if that is how things look...Garner could redshirt next year...doubtful, but possible.
September 27th, 2010 at 7:20 PM ^
Lets just rape Ohio State this yr.
September 28th, 2010 at 12:10 PM ^
I'd rather lynch them. Much more funner.
September 27th, 2010 at 7:31 PM ^
has been discussed at length. The OP brought up some nice points about why using Devin this year could be beneficial. It seems like such a no-brainer to have him red-shirt, but lately I'm wondering if maybe the staff did this to keep a promise to Devin. It isn't easy to bring in a 5* QB when you had a true freshman play as well as Tate did last year. Maybe the staff promised him he would see the field some this year, even if he didn't start.
September 27th, 2010 at 8:12 PM ^
" but lately I'm wondering if maybe the staff did this to keep a promise to Devin"
That is the only thing to keep coming back to when you think about this. For whatever Tate's alleged transgressions were in the off-season, tossing Devin's RS aside just doesn't add up.
I don't worry about it, because like all of us here, I have no visibility into the inner workings of the program, and any scenario I come up with is speculation. Which is usually wrong, in my case.
September 27th, 2010 at 8:46 PM ^
Everyone has their own theory as to why the red-shirt was burned. My personal favorite is that RR knew Denard was his #1 guy, knew that Tate had maturity issues, and had no idea how Tate would respond to playing second fiddle. Without the blessing of perfect foresight, RR had to account for the possibility that Tate might request transfer papers, and didn't want to enter conference play with his only backup a true freshman who had never taken a snap. Your theory is just as (or more) valid than mine, and the only people with the information necessary to make this judgment call are the people who actually made it. And I can live with that.
September 27th, 2010 at 8:18 PM ^
Does anyone have definitive information about whether non- Freshmen can redshirt? I am not talking about a medical redshirt which can be granted in any year of eligibility, but an apocryphal Devin Sophomore year intentional redshirt. I have never heard of this being done and always assumed that one could only get a non-medical redshirt in the first year on campus.
September 27th, 2010 at 8:46 PM ^
Anyone can redshirt, at any time. You have a five-year window to use your four years of eligibility. If a player goes any season during that five-year span without participating, he redshirts. The most common time to redshirt a player is his true freshman year, but it does not have to be done then. For example, OSU (I think it was OSU) had a guy redshirt last year as a junior to concentrate on academics. Troy Woolfolk is redshirting right now as a true senior. And Tate Forcier was eligible for a redshirt this year until he appeared against BGSU.
September 27th, 2010 at 8:33 PM ^
Have him talk to Donovan Warren and Manny Harris about all the "millions"
September 27th, 2010 at 8:33 PM ^
I recognize that I'm in the minority, but I'm glad DG is not red shirting. As Denard referenced early this season, the game is really fast when you are just starting out, therefore experience on the field is paramount. I also think that Denard (who was rumored to have been looking around last season) probably wanted a guarantee from RR that he wouldn't be red shirted and would see some playing time.
Denard Robinson is insane, but eventually he will probably get hurt. He likes to run and takes big hits. Bowling Green linebackers simply don't hit as hard as PSU, Iowa, and OSU. It may not happen this year, but eventually we will have to rely on our bench again. When that happens, I think that a developed Gardner is going to be a phenomenal back up and eventual starter. Tate looked great against Bowling Green and he is good enough to compete on most teams, but I just can't see him taking us to a rose bowl or natl. championship game. I like Tate and I appreciate his loyalty, but I like winning even more.
If he works hard, Devon Gardner and Denard Robinson will be a solid 1-2 punch going forward. DG will be experienced if DR goes down, and hopefully we won't miss a beat. Even after Tate's performance against Bowling Green, I'm still not convinced he can do it against the better part of the Big10.
September 27th, 2010 at 8:49 PM ^
September 27th, 2010 at 10:20 PM ^
Most likely, there were promises made to Gardner that he wouldn't be redshirted, and he would be given the opportunity to compete for the starting spot, if he signed with Michigan.
September 28th, 2010 at 11:15 AM ^
He is simply too good to redshirt. He will make huge strides in his mechanics and grasp of the offense through this season's playing time, and over the next 11 months, like all good freshman QBs. Devin will be pushing even harder for the starting role next year.