In Defense of Loyd Carr
There have been a couple of posts in the last week that have been responded to with lots of critisism of Coach Carr. While I understand that for some, it is a given that Coach Carr is a traitor to Michigan footballl because of what transpired during the RR years, I personally do not feel like there is anywhere near enough information available publically to make that conclusion.
While some suggest that Carr could speak up and clear up any misunderstandings, I personally think that is a gross oversimplification. For Carr's entire career, problems within the athletic department have been dealt with in house (I understand that many disagree with that appraoch and think it is part of the problem, it is however the way that the program has operated since long before Carr got here). Just because Carr chooses to continue to subscribe to that philosphy, it doesn't automatically make him a traitor. Furthermore, there are other reasons that Carr may not wish to speak up. First, he could believe that both now and in the past, it might have just made problems worse. Second, he might just be tired of fighting with critisism in the press (and maybe that's why he quit in the first place). On the second, I know that many people on this site also believe that because Carr was being paid by the University, he had an obligation to speak up. If it wasn't actually part of his job description and he thought it would make the situation worse, I don't know why this would be the case.
For me, trying to determine how much culpability Loyd Carr has in the whole RR situation has a great deal to do with two very large and unanswered questions from Three and Out.
First, when did Carr first let Martin know he wanted to retire? Three and Out suggests that some have said that he wanted to retire before the 2007 season, but that Martin denied this was the case. Even if Carr spoke up about this, it would still be his word against Martin's, however it seems to me that there is at least some evidence that this is the case. I believe thiat it was around March of 2007 that Carr's coaches were given contracts through February 28, 2009 (http://www.usatoday.com/sports/college/football/bigten/2007-12-20-rodriguez-michigan-assistants_N.htm). That timing is consitent with a timeframe in which Martin would have been focused on hiring a basketball coach (the alleged reason that Martin asked Carr to stay on). If Carr was tired of coaching, it would help expalin, both the 2007 and 2008 recruiting and to a lesser extent the Appalachian State fiasco. It also would have been a major sacrifice on Carr's part to commit another year of 100 plus hour weeks to coaching. In retrospect, with the Appalachian State losses and all of the accusations of leaving the cupboard bare for his successor, it turned into not only a sacrifice of a year of his life, but also a major blemish on his legacy. Finally, if this is the way that things went down, it seems to taint anything that Martin has to say about the coaching hire and Carr;'s role in it (and would amplify how incredibly unprepared he was to handle the coaching search itself). Given the Appalachian State loss and all the heat that Carr took for it and the pathetic job that Martin did have handling it, I at least could see why Carr might have had some bitterness towards Michigan and may not have handled the situatoin as well as he otherwise could have. I also see how he might have felt that coming forward in defense of Rich Rod could have easily lead to even larger contreversy over the handling of the athletic department. If he had come forward and talked about how things went down, I'm not sure that weakening Martin would have really helped Rich Rod that much.
Second, what exactly was Carr's role in hiring of Rich Rod and when did things between Rich Rod and Carr go south? While Martin puts it all on Carr, if indeed Martin lied about when Carr told him he wanted to retire, Martin doesn't seem to be a particularly credible witness. While Rodriquez is a credible witness regarding the first discussion between Carr and RR and does strongly suggest that Carr was the first person to reach out, it doesn't provide any isnight into whether it was on Carr's own account or was related to Martin. Given Carr's concern about hiring Les Miles, he might have felt that Rich Rod was the lesser of two evils and that given how poorly Martin had already handled things and the fact that Mary Sue Coleman was stepping into the proccess that helping Martin was his only chance of ensuring Miles didn't become coach. Further, while the book doesn't provide any details, it does strongly suggest that there were additional conversations between Carr and Rich Rod. "Rodriqeuz kept all the trainers, equipment managers......and at Carr's urging operations members Scott Draper and Brad Labide". It would be quite interesting to know what else Carr and Rich Rod discussed in that conversation, because of all the advice that Carr could have given RR, I doubt the only advice he came up with was to hire Draper and Labide.
While some may assume that the hiring of Draper and Labide a plan to undermine RR (which they certainly accomplished), it seems a farfetched plot to think this was intentional on his part. First, it would involve convincing the two to ruin their own reputations, second, it would assume that RR would actually violate practice requiremetns, third, it would assume that any investigation wouldn't look back any farther than one year. This all seems like a pretty lame plan to get someone fired to me.
Furthermore, the quote from Bacon about the hiring of Draper and Labide is one of the manky times in the book that I find his use of, "the facts" to be at least a little prejudicial. What reason is there to highlight that they were hired at Carr's urging, if not to suggest blame for their failures on Carr? Bacon takes a similar tack when discussing the team meeting about RR. When discussing the team meeting in which Carr said he would sign releases, he says, 'It was also interpretted by many players as a vote of no confidence to his successor before Rodriguez had conducted a single team meeting, a single workout, a single practice, yelled or sworn at a single player or coached a single game." Bacon conviently leaves out to counterpoints. Carr couldn't have signed releases after Rodriquez had held a practice or coached a game because he would no longer be the coach. If he was going to make the offer, it was the only chance he had to do it. Furthermore, to the extent that any players wanted to transfer for Spring of 2008, it also had to be done quickly.
When I look at the situation, Coach Carr is far down the list of people I'd blame for Rich Rod's failure.
Martin obviously handled the situation horribly.
Mary Sue Coleman was of little help (and was certainly in better position than Carr to be more helpful)
Obviously Michael Rosenburg
Bard Labadie and Scott Draper
Rich Rod himself.
Personally, while most of the blame that people on this blog are willing to assign to Rich Rod is about his defensive failings. I think his whole approach significantly contributed to the 2008 failures (and subsequent loss of confidence). While many people on this site say they got no new insights in this book, I personally was shocked at the number of times that Rich Rod seemed to suggest he couldn't win right away. I personally think that the mental aspect of most endevars is very important, and if you think you're gonna fail, yoiu probably are. It is even more important when you are a leader, because the people you are leading, sense your doubt and it breeds doubt in them too. I don't know if it was truly Rodrquez's feeling or just the way I felt the book conveyed it, but the number of times that the book discusses Bobby Bowden's philosophy, "you lose big, you lose close, you win close and then you win big", and other similar anecdotes, makes me think that Rich Rod fully expected to lose his first year. When you expect to lose, it's not shocking that you do. While that team was clearly not going to win any national championships, it's not clear to me that it had to be as bad as it was. There performances against both Utah and Wisconsin suggest to me more potential than we saw. Assuming that the cupboard was bare assumes that Rich Rod did a good job of using and developing the talent he had. I see very limited evidence that this was the case.
While I'm not suggesting that Carr is not without his faults, I think that people who consider him a traitor to the program are over the top and are not putting both Carr's role and Rich Rod's role in perspective. I think they are assuming Carr had much more of an ability to influence things than I think he really did. I also think that they assume that Rich Rod had less culpability than he did.
While most of you won't believe it from my posting history, I was actually an RR supporter until the Mississippi State fiasco. The main thing that has inspired me to post so much stuff that is negative about RR is the fact that so many of his supporters on here seem to feel the need to point the fingers at others for his failures at Michigan. While RR had more challenges to deal with than most, he brought more of it on himself than I think people acknowledge.
I think the buyout issue is a good example of this. There would not have been a buyout contreversy in the first place if RR hadn't signed such a ridiculous contract when he was at West Virginia. Who signs a buyout with an expectation that it will be lowered if it is actually used? I think it is one of the many examples of RR"s naivenss when it comes to the ways of the operation of mutil-million dollar businesses. While RR clearly got screwed at Michigan because of it, I think the experiences he had at West Virginia, show that politics in big-time athletic departments isn't unique to Michigan and an inability to handle them well is a real weakness in a coach.
January 23rd, 2012 at 10:30 AM ^
Carr wanted them to hire Hoke and not RIch Rod 4 years ago. Seems like he knew what direction Michigan should have went then.
January 23rd, 2012 at 9:29 PM ^
Just a shockingly ignorant piece of strawman thinking there. You ought to be ashamed of yourself.
January 23rd, 2012 at 10:36 AM ^
Not sure why people need to look upon LC as an all or nothing approach. The man was head coach for 13 seasons. In that time there will be both positive and negative aspects. In my life time, he is the only coach to win a MNC at MIchigan. He is also the coach responsible for "The Horror". Both carry equal weight in my book. He also finished his career losing 5 straight to the Buckeyes, but had great records against PSU & MSU. So does that make him good or bad for Michigan? Both. This is true for almost every coach who has coached for an extended period of time at one school. Look at Paterno, Bowden, Tressel, Osborne. All of those coaches are considered greats. All have won a MNC. All have their detractors for their impact on the school. (for those who do not know, Osborne lost 7 bowl games in a row, including the Orange Bowl 3 times in a row. Many people blamed Osborne for being too conservative when he had a better team).
If you want to speculate on the off field parts of LC's life & their impact on the football program, feel free, but please seperate the on field aspect from the off-field aspect because on the field says he was both good and bad for Michigan football.
January 23rd, 2012 at 10:41 AM ^
I would argue the on-field aspect of Carr's tenure was much, much more positive than negative. Winning the MNC greatly outweighs the App State embarrassment in my opinion, and he won 5 B1G titles. He also improved upon our already-best winning percentage. There were disappointments, but we were regarded as an elite brand of football during his entire coaching career.
January 23rd, 2012 at 11:03 AM ^
If he'd retired before the 2007 season, he wouldn't have the horror. If Tressel wasn't a cheat, he might not have lost 5 straight to Ohio.
January 23rd, 2012 at 10:38 AM ^
I have no idea why this was even written. Honestly, are we going to start writing up long posts about how Steve Fisher was an a-hole who set the team back for nearly a decade? How about a rant condemning Shawn Crable for costing UM a chance at an MNC in 2006 by needlessly hitting Smith from OSU?
Seriously, the wounds are just starting to heal over what happened with Carr, RR, etc. - stop tearing them off just because you want to complain about it some more.
January 23rd, 2012 at 10:39 AM ^
Well, I'm glad we got our daily LC/RR/Three and out topic out of our system already.
January 23rd, 2012 at 10:47 AM ^
January 23rd, 2012 at 11:01 AM ^
Not all BMWs are maintained to the same standard; this one had at least four cylanders misfiring and possibly not even functioning - not to mention accumulated rust, etc.
January 23rd, 2012 at 11:42 AM ^
Let's play a game using your staggering logic. Your logic: Brady Hoke loves Michigan, he thinks Lloyd is a great guy, therefore Lloyd is a great guy. Game: I love Michigan more than anyone, I also think its appropriate to poop in people's mail boxes. Therefore pooping in mail boxes is okay. See how that's a flawed train of reasoning?
Brady Hoke and Rich Rodriguez had the same players in their first year? How is that even possible? Did I miss Brandon Graham coming off the edge this past year?
Are you going to respond and tell me that the spread won't work in the Big Ten, too? Or that Rich Rodriguez failed because he wasn't a MICHIGAN MAN.
You are completely misguided and misinformed. There is plenty of evidence to suggest that Rich Rodriguez was over his head, you provided none of that evidence, however. Also: you have very poor reasoning skills.
January 23rd, 2012 at 12:50 PM ^
...THEN you can tell us that pooping in mailboxes is cool, and we'll believe you.
Until then, YOUR line of reasoning is flawed.
January 23rd, 2012 at 5:22 PM ^
I get it now: win games and whatever you say, do and/or believe is untouchable. We sound more and more like Sparty and Ohio everyday.
January 23rd, 2012 at 10:51 AM ^
I think Coach Carr was an excellent coach and represented the University as well as anyone during his coaching tenure, but, I think as an associate atheletic director, he failed as bad as the team did during his tenure. As the previous head coach he had no responsibility to speak about the current head coach, good or bad, but he did as the associate AD, where he should have been a PR advocate of all things Michigan Football and helped be a face of Michigan football.
I think this was a poor choice to put him in this position, as he didn't like the media, and felt things should have been handled internally, and also remained a power position with an opposing view than the current coach, for how the program should be run (not a slam on anyone, but all coaches, Hoke, Carr, RR, Bo, run things differentyl). I think Brandon recognized this when he let Carr go, and it's for the benefit of both sides.
With all this said, my fandom grew exponentially when I started at Michigan, and Coach Carr was there to lead me through it all. I still get teary eyed when he got carried off the field, and that is how I choose to remember his legacy.
January 23rd, 2012 at 10:59 AM ^
January 23rd, 2012 at 11:00 AM ^
Thanks for all the feedback. (that isn't sarcasm).
Some have suggested that this issue has been beat to death and asked why would I bring it up now. It was the harsh comments on the following thread from last week that made me want to right this post.
\http://mgoblog.com/diaries/eat-dinner-coach-carr-coach-hoke-dhani-jones-and-mike-martin
While I get that many/most people have made their minds up on this, when I look at Carr in relation to many other college coaches (Tressel, Paterno and Kelly all come to mind), I fail to see anything that Carr has done that rises to that level. It's alot easier to find the rules to being a MIchigan Man to be black and white when you're not really in position to actually do much to influence MIchigan football. For instance, on the question of should Carr have let his players know that he'd sign transfer papers. It's easy to say sitting on the sidelines that he should have made them deal with RR, but, since he actually sat in these kids homes, told their parents he'd look out for them, maybe he felt he needed to give them the option to move on. I see how you could disagree and think this was the wrong choice, but to rise to the level of being a traitorous choice?
I also think that when you look at through the lense of a guy that wanted to retire before the 2007 season, you see that Carr himself was also screwed by some of the same people that screwed RR. I would also argue that since he's given so much more to Michigan footballl and since he doesn't havve a professional route to repair that by wining somewhere else, he may in fact have been screwed more. If after suffering through the 2007 season, then watching Martin completely screw up the transition, Carr felt bitter and didn't handle it that well, is that really traitorous, or just a human failing on Carr's part?
Despite the fact that I personally think that RR could have handled things much better and I'm disappointed by his three year tenure, I still would be happy for the guy to succeed. I guess I just don't see how given the information that we have at hand, people could have managed to develop such a hatred for a guy like Coach Carr who has done alot of good things.
January 23rd, 2012 at 11:04 AM ^
January 23rd, 2012 at 11:06 AM ^
January 23rd, 2012 at 11:38 AM ^
and the situation is complicated. Loyalty to his players, loyalty to his staff, love of Michigan, lack of a drive to defend himself in the court of public opinion, focus on Mott...I think the "deliberate undermining" attributed to Carr is a real stretch. And the idea that the MGoBlog zeitgeist reflects the rest of the Michigan fanbase, or at least the fraction of it that Lloyd is exposed to, is probably also wrong. If Carr is aware that there are people that think he was deliberately undermining Michigan, he probably dismisses them as a minority.
January 23rd, 2012 at 12:09 PM ^
I think it is good that we continue debating and discussing because for many of us the wounds have not healed and may never. For me personally, what makes Michigan special is gone. I used to think we were better then other programs not because we won more but because Michigan did things better. Carr and his clique put their interests in installing someone who was part of their inner circle as coach instead of supporting the outsider. R^2 was a threat to their legacy and long term influence. In my opinion they did everything they could to tear him down.
A few more points. I thought the contrast of how Elliot supported Bo verses how Carr dealt with R^2 was gigantic. How can you be the assistant AD and not be on speaking terms with the coach of the biggest sport on campus? That makes it very clear to me that Carr wanted R^2 to fail and probably applauded every setback.
Regarding how much talent was on the 2008 roster. All you have to do is read Phil Steele's 2008 preview. Everyone forgets the uproar Steele caused when he had UM's power ranking somewhere in te 50ties. He predicted that UM was a paper tiger and when Threet failed miserablly, the train wreck began.
My last point is to compare Carr to another great man. Bob Knight was a great coach who was larger then life. But his own hubris took him down. Bob Knights failing was he had no respect for those who were different from him. If you were a friend, Knight would do anything for someone in his circle. However, what ultimately defines a man is not how you treat those who are your friends and those you understand, but how you treat those who are different from you and those you fear because you do not understand them.
Bob Knight presumed those who were different from him or whom he could not understand were amoral dirt beneath his contempt. This is ultmately Lloyd Car'sr failure in my opinion. I say Carr was a great man and a great coach and someone who would do anything for his friends. But he ultimately failed as a person because he despised what he could not understand and labeled then evil. For such a well read man Carr could should have read more history. If so he may have avoided this common theme of humanity. If he had read the history of UM football he should have wondered what would have happened if the noble gentile Elliot had been outraged at the salty barbarian from Ohio and chosen to tear him down such that a hand picked insider could continue the legacy upon Bo being fired.
January 23rd, 2012 at 1:56 PM ^
It is entirely unclear to what extent the obvious difference between these two relationships rests on (1) the differences between Elliott and Carr or (2) the differences between Bo and Rodriguez.
January 23rd, 2012 at 12:16 PM ^
January 23rd, 2012 at 12:26 PM ^
January 23rd, 2012 at 12:34 PM ^
January 23rd, 2012 at 12:44 PM ^
January 23rd, 2012 at 12:51 PM ^
FOOTBALLS IZ MORE IMPORTANT THAN SICK KIDZZZ!
January 23rd, 2012 at 12:47 PM ^
Here's my view of Lloyd Carr. He was a very successful coach, especially in his first 4-5 years (though the 2000 Orange Bowl), but even beyond that (the 2006 season was impressive despite the last two games). He recruited and coached some of the all-time great Michigan players -- Jake Long, Charles Woodson, Braylon Edwards, Lamar Woodley, Chris Perry, etc. (I realize Woodson probably committed under Moeller). He represented Michigan well, and cared about his players. The teams he had the worst record against -- OSU and USC -- were cheating.
That said, I think it's hard to defend the way he handled the transition. Even if he doesn't want to go public with a response to "3 & Out" he could do so through surrogates. In terms of what he did and didn't do,. he could have spoken out during Practicegate and when players like Boren talked about "family values". He could have discussed transfers with RichRod before saying he would grant releases to whoever wanted them. At the very least he could have quietly discouraged the sniping from ex-players like Edwards etc.
My guess is that Lloyd Carr feels (with some reason) that he never got enough credit in Ann Arbor, and that this affected his behavior. Bo is idolized, but never won a national championship, and had a terrible bowl record. Lloyd was hearing calls from his head (in 2007) a year after being a score from the National Championship game. I think that when his coaching tree (English and Debord) got no serious consideration to succeed him, and when RichRod replaced everyone (save the indestructible Fred Jackson) on the coaching staff, it felt like a repudiation. I think he reacted to this by repudiating the new regime.
January 23rd, 2012 at 9:44 PM ^
You are right. The mistake people make is sympathizing with his plight and defending those actions in some kind of humanistic light. Because it was fucking despicable of him to do that to an institution that did more for him than he did for it.
January 23rd, 2012 at 12:51 PM ^
January 23rd, 2012 at 12:55 PM ^
Lloyd is one of the most wonderful people I have had the chance to meet in my life. He is an incredibly intelligent man and very interesting to talk to. He, however, is not the kind of guy to get in a media war and probably doesn't care what the perception is of him. I have my own reasons as to why Bacon was so hard on the guy. Mainly the fact that Bacon had great access to Bo and RR and was able to write books about them. I wonder if it bothered him Carr wasn't really interested in him. Anyway it just kinds of annoys me that people act like Lloyd was a traitor when he gave 20+ years to this university.
January 23rd, 2012 at 9:49 PM ^
The criticism of Carr does not begin and end with Bacon and his book. It is merely the most public corroboration of these rumors since this is an area with a very, very weak local media who would never ask Lloyd a hard question.
I've heard numerous stories about Lloyd during the RR years that are worse than anything Bacon reported and the sources are a few guys who played for Bo Schembechler.
January 23rd, 2012 at 1:01 PM ^
There were no angels in this program during the whole three and out mess. And there were no demons within the program either. Just ordinary fallible human beings. Why you guys on either side need to open up the old wound and bring out the salt is beyond me.
January 23rd, 2012 at 1:06 PM ^
Carr is a hall of fame coach and always was one who carried this program with class and dignity. Lets focus on that while acknowledging that the RR era was not a good one in the win loss perspective, but was a good learning experience for the program as a whole. Now that both eras are a thing of the past, let's focus on the present and future of the program. We are a program with a storied past, great tradition, and chapters upon chapters of great moments. That's what I will continue to look at as we turn the page, a novel approach really - you should try it.
January 23rd, 2012 at 9:52 PM ^
As long as Lloyd Carr is out there in the forefront of the Michigan family and being embraced as if nothing ever happened, I will be all too happy to comment on what an asshole he is.
January 23rd, 2012 at 10:00 PM ^
It all worked out for the best.
January 23rd, 2012 at 1:21 PM ^
Lloyd Carr needs no defense.
January 23rd, 2012 at 1:52 PM ^
Is that the advice he gave Rodriguez?
Explains so much...
January 23rd, 2012 at 1:24 PM ^
January 23rd, 2012 at 8:37 PM ^
Since Number 2 is the single item that I have been most concerned about, and perhaps the only thing about which I have openly criticized Carr, I'll speak to that one.
2. Not speaking up during the Free Press fiasco - first, he had no first hand knowledge of what happened, so what could he have said? Second, given the Conservative nature of U of M lawers portrayed in 3 and Out, would they have let him talk?
A. Carr was being used during that time period, and he knew it. The Free Press was explicitly drawing direct comparisons between what players did before Rodriguez and what they did after. If you re-read the entire August 30, 2009 story, it is laden with references to the Carr era. Yes, Carr knew enough to speak to the basic issues of the complex "Countable" versus "Non-countable time" calculations. Carr wouldn't have had to weigh in on specific allegations, if he had simply done as Brian Cook (who "wasn't there" either) did; challenge Rosenberg on whether Rosenberg even knew the difference between countable and non-countable hours. Lloyd Carr enjoys a bully pulpit that no on else in Michigan football had. He had gravitas.
B. Carr could have addressed the basic background; that Rosenberg never interviewed him** or anybody on his old staff, or Judy Van Horn, or Bruce Madej, or Joe Parker or Brad Labadie or Martin, or anybody of any consequence in the Athletic Department -- Carr's Athletic Department -- before going to press with the story. That process, exposed, and coming from Carr, would have made a lot of people very angry at Rosenberg at a very much earlier date.
C. Yes, Carr was not an eyewitness to any alleged violations. But neither was David Brandon. And Brandon felt comfortable enough to go on the record and point out that he had personally gone through the 2009 newspaper stroy with a highlighter, marking all of the errors and inaccuracies and exaggerations, and by the time he was done it was mostly yellow. Brandon wasn't even a part of the Athletic Department at the times in question in the investigation; yet he still did all of that. What did Carr do?
D. The investigation is over; Carr does not need to criticize the NCAA. And Carr has no need to place Michigan in any further investigative jeopardy. But with the matter concluded, and with every right-thinking Michigan observer now in general agreement that the Free Press reporting was grossly exaggerated if not flatly incorrect, what is stopping Carr now? What was stopping Carr from blasting the Free Press when NCAA Case No. M324 had been closed but Rodriguez was still employed at Michigan?
**Uh, that is, I presume Carr was not interviewed for the Rosenberg story. I presume that Carr did not help Rosenberg in any way, shape or form. I presume that Carr was NOT the person who, in early August of 2009 tipped Rosenberg off to the idea of a CARA story based on the July 27, 2009 Audit memo. I presume that Carr was not that sort of traitor to the program. But if he were... God help him. And really, my level of antipathy is so high, I happen to think that Carr ought to be out in front of the gang criticizing the Free Press so that it can be very, very clear that Carr was NOT one of those traitors. When you read the portion of Three and Out that references Jim Stapleton, it gets very uncomfortable. I suspect that Carr, and Stapleton and Percy Bates and Rosenberg are all much better friends than anyone has let on. But these sorts of allegations would be so serious, that I don't want to even go down that path without exquisitely good evidence, so let's leave it there.
I think that covers your Number 2.
January 23rd, 2012 at 10:12 PM ^
January 23rd, 2012 at 10:31 PM ^
Ask Carr; ask Bill King; ask Gene Marsh. I'll bet dollars to doughnuts that for the first few weeks of the investigation, when the Free Press had succeeded in putting the whole University on the defensive, nobody wanted to talk, regardless of any instructions of counsel. It is quite likely that Coach Carr was interviewed by counsel for the Committee on Infractions. He probably felt as though he could not speak at that time.
But that time has long since passed. Nowadays, if Brandon is giving a luncheon talk to alumni, he'll speak his mind about the Free Press.
January 23rd, 2012 at 1:27 PM ^
This guy has no idea what he is talking about.
January 23rd, 2012 at 1:36 PM ^
January 23rd, 2012 at 2:05 PM ^
Just reading through your posts it's obvious why you get negged. You don't have to like Lloyd Carr, but you sure as hell don't know what you are talking about.
January 23rd, 2012 at 1:50 PM ^
Nina Apollonovna Ponomaryova (Russian: Нина Аполлоновна Пономарёва, née Ромашкова, Romashkova; born April 27, 1929 in Sverdlovsk, Russian SFSR) was a Soviet/Russian discus thrower, the first Soviet OlympicChampion.
She became interested in athletics since 1947, when she entered the Physical Training Faculty of the StavropolPedagogical Institute. Her first official performance was in 1948 on the Stavropol Krai Championships, where she threw discus 30.53m, this result was the new record of the Krai. After just three years of training she became one of the leading Soviet athletes. In 1949 Nina was 3rd in the USSR Championships. At that time an experienced coach Dmitry Markov began to train her. In 1951 Romashkova became the USSR Champion, she repeated this success in 1952-1956, 1958, 1959.
In 1952 she was a member of the USSR Olympic team, which participated in the Olympic Games for the first time in history. At that time the Olympic Record was held since 1936 Summer Olympics by Gisela Mauermayer fromGermany at 47.63m. 20 athletes from 17 countries competed in the Discus Throwing Event. In the Qualifying Round Nina took 1st place with the result 45.05m (36m were enough to qualify). In the Final Round after the first try Nina Romashkova was 2nd with the result 45.16m, the leader being her teammate Nina Dumbadze (45.85m). But already in the second try Romashkova improved the Olympic Record by more than 3 metres throwing the discus 50.84m, after that she was the leader until the end of the competition. In the 3rd try she set the Olympic Record at 51.42m. Romashkova managed to throw discus behind Mauermayer's limit for the 3rd time in her 6th try (49.37m), 4th and 5th tries being 47.24m and 44.66m respectively. Thus, July 20, 1952 Nina Romashkova became the Olympic Champion, setting the New Olympic Record at 51.42m and earning the first Olympic gold medal in the history of the USSR.
Just less than a month after the 1952 Summer Olympics, August 9, 1952 in Odessa Nina Romashkova set the New World Record at 53.61m. In 1954 she became the European Champion. At the 1956 Summer Olympics Ponomaryova won the bronze medal. In 1957 Nina Ponomaryova was awarded the Order of the Red Banner. At the 1960 Summer Olympics Ponomaryova became the Olympic Champion for the second time. Soon after she finished her career and worked as a coach for some time.
I hope the OP wasted as much time reading this useless post as I did reading theirs.
January 23rd, 2012 at 2:11 PM ^
January 23rd, 2012 at 2:31 PM ^
We might have some idea what was said, we might know how some players reacted, but what people are judging is Carr's intent when he offered to sign forms, and certainly, none of us know that.
...and is Carr concerned what people think? Maybe. But he is the guy that said: "Nothing can keep me down. Not a loss to Appalachian State, not a loss to Oregon, not 100 losses. And not the loss of my job."
January 23rd, 2012 at 2:52 PM ^
- Lloyd Carr cares more than anyone knows about his public image.
- This fanbase will never heal until Lloyd speaks up and settles this as a rumor or fact.
January 23rd, 2012 at 2:54 PM ^
Enough about Lloyd Carr...
Let's talk about Lloyd Brady and his anticipated post-Michigan career.
January 23rd, 2012 at 4:05 PM ^
At the same time never came to practice or team and offered support or encouragement, his silence said all he wanted to say, the Team was dead to him. He lost my respect with his behavior and is now dead to me. I don't give two shits for him or RR, our coach is Brady Hoke. The previous 7 years sucked leave them where they lay and move on. Remember student atheletes only.
January 23rd, 2012 at 4:45 PM ^
This LC vs. RR chatter reminds me of debates on a motorcycle forum I used to be on several years ago. Someone would raise the issue of helmets and instantly the thread would go several hundred posts long. People passionate on both side shouting at each other. Nobody's mind being changed one bit.