D Zone Article on Urban Meyer and Negative Recruiting
http://www.thedzone.net/2014/07/top-recruit-ohio-state-trashes-michigan…-
The whole piece uses an anonymous source to relay what happened on a recruiting trip to OSU back on May 31, especially Urban Meyer's bashing of UM. I am not familiar with the site so if it is questionable or whatever, feel free to remove this.
Some highlights (emphasis mine):
After a standard day of touring, the players and their families were brought into the Ohio State team room for a meeting. In the meeting, head coach Urban Meyer talked to the players directly about the state of Michigan, the University of Michigan, and Michigan State University. Meyer pounded several topics mostly about the University of Michigan into the players and their families’ heads, according to Anonymous. “It was in their team room. There were probably about 70 recruits and family members in there. All the coaching staff agreed with him [Urban Meyer], they loved it,” Anonymous said. “It was basically bashing over and over. They called them ‘the school up north,’ they wouldn’t even call them by their name.” Several topics were brought forward from the coaching staff during the meeting, but Meyer was the leader. “It was really Coach Meyer that was talking bad.”
A key point of the meeting was the lack of respect for the Michigan coaching staff. “They talked a lot about how [the Michigan] coaches like to blame losses on the players. And how the Ohio State coaching staff would never do that and accept their part of the loss. How the Michigan coaches wouldn’t accept accountability for something they did wrong.” “They always wanted to pin it on ‘Oh well, Devin Gardner didn’t do this, or Jeremy Gallon didn’t run fast enough on this play, or Taylor Lewan wasn’t blocking hard enough on this play.’ They were saying that the coaches are responsible for that so don’t blame that on the players. They just don’t have good enough coaches.” Paralleling the Michigan coaching staff, was the lack of player development in regards to the “high level” recruits that Michigan gets. “Another point is that the player development, from a standpoint of them having some of the best players in the country and still not being able to win more than seven games, Rose Bowl, or a National Title.”
“They spent a lot of time focusing on Michigan rather than themselves,” Anonymous said. “When we went to Michigan, they didn’t talk about Ohio State at all.”
Well put.
team up North that he's so obsessive about.
I think that's why he has had some trouble getting players this year. I realize they jumped up the rankings when Cornell and Hilliard committed. but they were down before. It's one thing to jokingly make comments. It's another to go on and on about another school. I think it's going to hurt him in the long run. If Michigan's young players start showing the development that's expected, Meyer is going to look very foolish.
Hopefully this is prominently displayed so the Micigan players see it every day when they are ready to practice or lift.
Its as simple as the "emotional issues" brought up at election time. Its the absolute best vote of all, an emotional one (IOW hating what the other party stands for) because it can't be changed or swayed. An intellectual vote, on the other hand is someone who proceeds by analysis and might go either way based on priortizing various issues.etc.
As stated above its very simple-minded, and maybe that's what they are looking for...guys who hate Michigan on a gut level. I'll take the critical thinkers any day. Eventually Urban's line will get a little old and he'll be on ESPN again. This was probably his worst recruiting year so far in terms of the time it took to get guys on board. They are going to do a good job recruiting no matter what, but he got a nice set of tools from Tressel to start with, which Coach Hoke did not have quite the same level of help.
Time will prove or dispel my theory.
Surprised so many people are taking this story at face value. "Anonymous" sources and a writer who does not have a lot of credibility make me doubt if it's actually true. Probably brought in a bunch of page clicks though...mission accomplished.
like signing up today to make this post.
This was brought up immediately following the meeting occurred. I don't remember the sources however IIRC there was enough there that it sounded credible.
refuted when they come to campus now.
I don't know how to put how hungry I am to be better than the rest, in words.. Like y'all just really don't get it! #ImReady #OnME!
— Breez (@JabrillPeppers) July 16, 2014
...the NCAA now allows unlimited snacks
One could argue that URBZ failed miserably last year coinsiderig his elite level talent (barely beating our mediocre squad, losing the last two after going 12-0, being an overall widely regarded slime ball).
Think of all the truly great people you've come in contact with in your life. I'd bet none of them are "focus on the other guy" kind of people.
The thing is, the Hoke v. Urbz thing is far from over. Brady has a very mature, professional way of going about recruiting. I'm not saying that means it will pay off and Urbz won't win in the long run, but it's definitely the course I would prefer that our coach chooses to use.
As far as the blaming the players thing... that's just media fluff BS.
scumbag
About this guys surprises me. He's slick as they come. A car salesman parading as a football coach. But that said, whatever he's doing is working so give him credit for that.
How did OSU's coaches explain their horror-show defense last year? I don't recall Urban Meyer taking much responsibility anywhere in his career, but I could be wrong.
/Urbz'd
Right. Rope a dope. Urbz had us right where he wanted us.
Urban Meyer is as serious as a heart attack.
I want an iPad...
if ohio state were a person. they would be the type of person who on a date spends the entire time trash talking their ex. never attractive except to those looking for an easy rebound lay.
Irritating, but not surprised. Now, I will say that I much prefer the kind of recruiting that Hoke is doing than negative recruiting. I like what Michigan stands for, and I like the direction the football team is going in. I know that all the Michigan coaches have to bite their tongues and bide their time while waiting for the lines to gain experience and waiting for the recruiting to catch up.
I do think that negative recruiting is always going to be there in college. What is incredible is how blatant it is at Ohio State. It is always better to sell yourself than to denigrate others. When you focus on the positive, recruits can fill in the blanks with the negatives of other situations.
What I find fascinating is what I see as almost desperation on the part of Ohio State's coaching staff. Here's what I mean. If you are in a position of strength and health, you can stay above the fray. There is no need to be negative. The knives and the mud come out when you perceive someone as a real threat. I wonder if Urban is worried that Michigan will be improving quickly, becoming a real threat to Ohio State's dominance.
This whole account reminds me of something I've seen in dysfunctional families. When someone bad mouths someone else to your face, you can bet the house that they'll be bad mouthing you to someone else when you're not around. I can't help think of some catty sorority girls who are always dissing and disparaging others. When you're confident in who you are and your position in life, this kind of behavior isn't needed.
It isn't desperation, it's just standard operating procedure for Meyer.
Just win
Urban Meyer hates Michigan so much he had a contract clause while at Utah that he could leave for Michigan, ND, or Ohio State without consequence.
I wonder if Brady Hoke had that same clause to leave for Ohio State without penalty while he was at San Diego State? Something tells me he didn't.
Did you just reply to your own post?
Didn't mean to, it was supposed to be one comment, two separate paragraphs, and unfortunately it just didn't work out.
In all seriousness though, how do you think Hoke and staff would react to this? Better yet, how do you think they should react?
You react by winning games and proving them wrong.
using the APR? It seems to have been omitted from the discussion. A few wins will do the same thing for the remainder of the discussion. All he will be left with is "look, if you go up there you will have to study, go to class and do homework."
The hell do you guys expect from UFM. They poop in coolers down there and drink all the UFM Kool-Ade regardless of how much they hated him when he was at UF. The man is a snake and IMHO is perfect for those pig fuckers along with MD in EL and the new guy in Happy Valley. I'm happy as heck to have such dickheads as rival HC's to UM.
DO YOU SEE?
Sharrif Floyd
http://mgoblog.com/mgoboard/sleaziest-recruiter-urban-meyer
http://www.tampabay.com/blogs/gators/content/sharrif-floyd-clears-urban-meyer-dream-god-story
CHANGING, DO YOU SEE?
Daryl Stomum
http://blogs.knoxnews.com/perez/2009/02/urban-meyer-an-alleged-cheater.html
The one that's gone 24-2 over the last 2 years and has absolutely nothing to show for it. What's the best team you've beaten in the last 2 years? Wisconsin? Michigan? (2012 Michigan)
You're the best (or maybe now, 2nd best) of a really bad bunch, Meyer. That's not saying a whole lot.
and that's credibility. Although it does supply disucssion material, I find it surprising there is no mention of how this would actually affect a recruit's attitude toward whoever is doing the mudslinging. Forget kids from the state of OH. The majority of them grew up, as are their parents, buckeye fans and that isn't going to change. However, when you begin slinging mud without an iota of credibility, that is very dangerous. It is especially dangerous with kids who have actually been to Michigan on a recruiting visit and are aware that Michigan is not at a disadvantage in simply selling itself. Parents and recruits alike walk away completely aware that M is a world class university and the lifetime advantages of holding a degree from U of M. Just pretend you are a parent accompanying your son on a recruiting trip. What would you want to hear the merits of attending school in C-Bus or a coach bad-mouthing his biggest rival? The answer is obvious and to even have to do so sends a very bad message and I don't think UM, no matter his faults is not aware of this.
He has a big enough advantage in that he is starting to cut players, not unlike the SEC, especially so in Alabama. I don't believe M will ever go this route for obvious reasons. Our two biggest rivals - one to be gone after this year - have always fielded teams with greater athletes, although not always as experienced. Both have enjoyed runs at Michigan but neiher has been able to overcome being on the wrong end of the head-to-head battles. Negative recruiting is simply another way to convey a message of inferiority. When you speak negatively about someone constantly, it is normally done based on a feeling of inferiority and it doesn't take long for the listener to tire of it.
Urb has accomplished a lot during his coaching career. He does not like competition as was seen during his questionable health issues that coincidentally arose while Bama was wrestling the claim of being the best in the SEC away from the school he was coaching. It's true that Urb has done some questionable things during his coaching career such as the aforementioned institution of SEC practices in regard to recruiting 25 every year and calling Uncle as soon as Saban was rubbing his nose in the dirt. Buckeye fans are going to like him because he will continue to land the best from that state, and that in itself is a big advantage.
With all the advantages he enjoys, I simply am not buying into an Anonymous source claiming that a coach that understands the importance of, at minimum, selling credibility, is going to stoop to this level. He knows all the negatives returns that such a practice would bring about. Believe me, it won't take long before other coaches begin bringing up the fact his willingness, sometimes prompting fifth year seniors to remove themselves from the program. And when that becomes public knowledge to all potential recruits, it won't be done so by an Anonymous source.
It's hard to believe that the same program that sent doctored game film to MSU before their game in 2012 would resort to negative recruiting and name calling.
/S!
It's not any different than regular Ohio residents act. People in Ohio are bred to hate Michigan. If you tell someone from Ohio that you're from Michigan chances are they look at you funny. While most people couldn't give two shits about that state to the south.
This presentation is alledged to have occurred when there were a bunch of top prospects in Columbus for a camp that was not being put on by OSU. Many of them would not have otherwise visited OSU. It wasn't a regular weekend of visits. Most of the guys weren't seriously considering OSU. So Urban decided not to spend all of his time selling what they weren't going going to buy. Instead, he threw some shade on their biggest rival. If he can hurt Michigan's recruiting then that is a good thing for OSU. If Urban was doing this on every visit then that would raise more questions.
Meyer is very serious about not blaming the players. He blames the coaches for not teaching properly. He spent a lot of time on that in this speech around the 21 - 30 minute mark: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SQ2Rvb68pwc
Some people are saying the Michigan coaches have never blamed players. I disagree. What did Hoke say when Michigan's offense was a complete mess last season? He said that they need to execute better. I heard that over and over. Only players can execute. Meyer would say that if the players aren't executing then it's the coaches fault. Hoke didn't say that Borges needed to change his playcalling and take advantage of what the defense was giving him.