Comparing UM and MSU Recruiting Classes
Looking at 247sports composite ratings for M and MSU 2017 commits to date, I cannot recall ever seeing such a disparity in class quality between these two schools. For example,
MSU's highest ranked recruit, OG Kevin Jarvis, has a composite ranking of.9039. Michigan currently has 11 COMMITS with a higher composite ranking than MSU's top commit.
Michigan also has 19 COMMITS with a higher composite than all but MSU's top two recruits.
Finally, our recruiting AVERAGE of 91.02 is substantially higher than the ranking for MSU's top recruit. That seems incredible.
Questions: (1) Does anyone remember any year with a higher disparity between the recruiting classes, in either direction?
(2) Does anyone have any information that would suggest that MSU might be able to narrow the gap at all between now and signing day with some quality late recruits?
January 9th, 2017 at 10:51 AM ^
Going to be a brutal class for them
Very few of their recruits would be someone we would consider a take
Maybe one of their OL - Reid or Jarvis - might be it - and I think we passed on Reid
January 9th, 2017 at 11:06 AM ^
All true. The funny thing is, though, that I've been following recruiting since the Internet sites came online (2002 or so), and this class would be - historically - at the higher end of their range. They've had some pure dogshit classes over that span that would make this class seem fantastic, IIRC. Of course, the fact that they cannot do better than they are now after the last 5 years is truly ridiculous. I hate to do this, but it reminds me of how Beilein was unable to kick things up a notch in recruiting after taking a team to a NC game. Sad, but true...
January 9th, 2017 at 11:15 AM ^
For fun, here are some sample rankings for MSU classes (from Rivals):
2003: 69th
2007: 43rd
2008: 47th
2012: 42nd
2013: 47th
So basically, they were super-awful at times, and even after Dantini had "results to sell," he couldn't sell them particularly well...
January 9th, 2017 at 11:19 AM ^
Wow. I didn't realize that. This year 247 has them currently at 31. So, this, in fact, is a good year for them? OMG.
January 9th, 2017 at 11:51 AM ^
January 9th, 2017 at 11:57 AM ^
May I ask how old you are? I don't ask that facetiously. When you use terms like "ever" it makes me think you are relatively young.
I know we only know the context of our lives but people under 30 probably don't realize MSU Oregon and Baylor were hot garbage for most of us "older folks" lives. So I know recruiting services didn't exist in the 80s and 90s but I am sure UM was crushing MSU by a wider gap then if they were around.
Like someone else said, this current class would be pretty typical of pre 2010 MSU. And probably a "better than average" class for MSU football going back to say 1970. And UM's class is a bit higher than what Carr would get on a normal top 10 year. So yes there have been much wider variances and I bet 70% of the years since 1970 it would have been wider if such services existed then.
p.s. can you imagine Wolverine Devotee calling the enrollment office EVERY 2 hrs on the land line in 1988 checking early enrollees???
January 9th, 2017 at 12:18 PM ^
Remember when Muddy Waters was the MSU coach? If rankings existed then, for sure his classes would be much worse than the current MSU class.
Plus, that year Harry Kipke was the MSU coach...jeez. Terrible recruiting that year. Tuuurrible.
January 9th, 2017 at 12:22 PM ^
Harry Kipke was turrible but remember Charles Bemies? Those were the salad days!! He was Bobby Williams before it was cool to attach your self to Nick Saban's ass cheek permanently.
January 9th, 2017 at 1:13 PM ^
The class Kipke brought in was much worse than either of the classes Bemies landed, IMHO.
January 9th, 2017 at 4:43 PM ^
Any of their success, save for Magic Johnson homegrown, was due to Michigan... yep...
Duffy Daughterty came from our staff.
Chris Webber put us under and Izzo stepped in the void and took it.
Bill Martin held Carr on too long and then hired a bad fit in RR, and Dave Brandon continued it, allowing Dantonio to fill void.
Webber and Martin should be in Sparty's hall of fame.
January 9th, 2017 at 12:31 PM ^
I recruited for Michigan in the early 90's and the only schools we worried about were OSU, Notre Dame and Penn State (somewhat). Michigan State existed as for sports as they did for academics, a nice back-up school to go to if you couldnt get in to where you really wanted to go.
Things are basically back to normal. Normal isnt what's happened over the past 7-8 years. Normal is this which is why we lead the series 69-35-5 and that's with them winning 7 of the last 9 games.
January 9th, 2017 at 11:55 AM ^
Their class is almost full and they would have to get lucky to add anyone to raise their average. Other schools are going to pass them by LOI day.
The last couple of classes were about as good as it gets for MSU, around #20. They need a bounce back year on the field or they won't see another class like those.
January 9th, 2017 at 12:45 PM ^
January 9th, 2017 at 5:07 PM ^
Not as bad as you think. I posted this in one of the 12,652 Najee threads this weekend.
ESPN 300/247 Composite Top 300 Rankings:
OSU 16/17 verbal pledges
Michigan 17/16 verbal pledges
When looking at the top 300 recruits in the country, looks like Michigan and OSU are dead even according to two recruiting resources. Yes, OSU has more in the top 25, 50, 100, but recruiting is about filling holes and getting the best player for your system. I would rather have the #125 player which fits my system than the #50 player which doesn't.
January 9th, 2017 at 5:25 PM ^
January 9th, 2017 at 8:22 PM ^
January 9th, 2017 at 5:25 PM ^
I'd rather have the top 50 player and good coaches to know how to use him. Quite honestly, I think the concept of a system is a joke. Every week coaches are tweaking and scheming for their next opponent, and with a top 50 player, that job should be easier.
January 9th, 2017 at 8:25 PM ^
January 9th, 2017 at 1:18 PM ^
As an institution and a program to sell, MSU has a ceiling. Always has. The difference in the Dantonio years is that they have found some diamonds in the rough/done an oustanding job in developing players. They've been extremely well-coached. Also, they've found two All Big Ten quarterbacks who are now in the NFL. Even with their success recently they are a second-tier sell job. As Dirty Harry said, "A man's gotta know his limitations."
January 9th, 2017 at 2:32 PM ^
to what Dantoni has managed. Much as I am not a fan of his lemon-sucking demeanor. You have to feel a little bit surprised, taking a hard look at this, that he has not sought greener pastures. After all, Saban did.
Then you visit RCMB, see how many fans are after his skin now, after one bad year. . .
January 9th, 2017 at 1:14 PM ^
On court success just hasn't translated to better recruiting and the program is still recruiting like a mid-level Power 5 program.
January 9th, 2017 at 1:19 PM ^
Don't say that people around here think he walks on water...
January 9th, 2017 at 2:46 PM ^
January 9th, 2017 at 11:56 AM ^
If Harbaugh eventually decides he wants a TE in this class he might go after 4* Matt Dotson who had an offer from M. He's their 2nd ranked player. It would be funny as hell if Harbaugh raided and took Dotson and Jarvis from them.
January 9th, 2017 at 12:02 PM ^
Won't happen... Dotson himself put the kaboosh on M's recruiting effort. I believe the kid grew up a State fan, which seems unnatural, but whatever...
January 9th, 2017 at 2:05 PM ^
Plenty of residual State fandom among young people in MI over the past few years. It happens. Back in the day, their 'walmart' fans were usually farmers and the disenfranchised of society.
January 9th, 2017 at 12:08 PM ^
No, what would be funny is if Harbaugh did NOT want a TE in this class, but stole Dotson anyway. Just for spite. And then sent selfies of himself and Dotson to D'Antiniinioni...
January 9th, 2017 at 12:11 PM ^
right now titled, "Is it weird for dudes to get massages from other dudes?" I wish I was making this up, but I'm not. It goes on for three pages.
http://michiganstate.247sports.com/Board/93/Contents/Is-it-weird-for-du…
January 9th, 2017 at 12:23 PM ^
take a look over there sometimes just for something to read and some of the stuff that is said on that site........... man. Not just the man-bro stuff about chicks and body spray but some of the comments on there would get people here sent to Bolivia, fast. You really get a feel for the "essence" of a State fan from that site, and it is not a pretty picture.
January 9th, 2017 at 12:35 PM ^
It's gross over there, but fun to lurk sometimes. I do have to say that I hate how many "UM fans" (whether real or not) go over there to troll. It's just dumb and gives us all a bad name.
January 9th, 2017 at 2:22 PM ^
I lurk every now and then, too, just for the pure comedic value. Never disappoints. Found a guy there the other day, the post was a bit lacking in clarity but it sounded like he was griping about how he actually made a Wikipedia page for the "Detroit Blue Wall media" or whatever they call it, and the site took it down. The essence of a State fan, right there. I mean, Wikipedia pages for your bitchy conspiracy theories about Michigan and the Detroit media. HA, HA, HA...
January 9th, 2017 at 5:28 PM ^
January 9th, 2017 at 12:31 PM ^
Did he enroll early? I'm just wondering if we would make a late push for him if we miss on any of our other OL targets.
January 9th, 2017 at 12:59 PM ^
They indoctrinate their guys from the beginning with Michigan hatred. We were lucky to get to Drake Harris early. Aside from that, I've never heard a peep about our interest in Reid.
January 9th, 2017 at 10:51 AM ^
a dog while it's down can get you 3-9 in the Staee Pen.
January 9th, 2017 at 10:54 AM ^
I know, but I couldn't resist. I'll gladly do the time.
January 9th, 2017 at 10:57 AM ^
Where are you less likely to get raped, the State Pen or Penn State?
January 9th, 2017 at 4:23 PM ^
...funny!
January 9th, 2017 at 4:26 PM ^
Depends on how old you are.
January 9th, 2017 at 11:14 AM ^
kicking the dog, State is gonna put him at quarterback.
January 9th, 2017 at 10:53 AM ^
I can think of approximately 3-9 reasons why something like this would happen.
January 9th, 2017 at 10:54 AM ^
January 9th, 2017 at 11:47 AM ^
over Le'veon Bell.
January 9th, 2017 at 11:54 AM ^
January 9th, 2017 at 11:56 AM ^
January 9th, 2017 at 11:51 AM ^
January 9th, 2017 at 12:27 PM ^
I think his failed tests are for Mary Jane.
January 9th, 2017 at 10:54 AM ^
Let's stop comparing to MSU and compare to top programs.
January 9th, 2017 at 10:56 AM ^
January 9th, 2017 at 11:22 AM ^
Sure, we can do that. But this is low hanging fruit. Why wouldn't we pick it?